http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fire-Bow-Dril...234655776QQcategoryZ16042QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Is it, or is it not, completely missing the point?
Is it, or is it not, completely missing the point?
Totally Missing The Point?!?
- Thread starter Mikey P
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Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.
Oooh, only £11 to buy it now 
Along with the £4.50 postal charge.
You see he can justify the price because "bow drill sets don't just grow on trees you know"
The question is will anyone bid on it
Along with the £4.50 postal charge.You see he can justify the price because "bow drill sets don't just grow on trees you know"
The question is will anyone bid on it
its ok even looking round this forum there are plenty of similar examples where people would rather spend their money on flash gear than use something which is free and easily available
each to his/her own i guess
Kudos to the seller for realising that people really will buy anything (and then pay a fiver to get it posted) on ebay
Tant
ps anyone want to buy some "ray mears bushcraft" kindling to go with it?
postage is only £9.99 this week , bids start at 1p.............................
each to his/her own i guess
Kudos to the seller for realising that people really will buy anything (and then pay a fiver to get it posted) on ebay
Tant
ps anyone want to buy some "ray mears bushcraft" kindling to go with it?
postage is only £9.99 this week , bids start at 1p.............................
These have come up before. Someone pointed out that when learning to use a fire bow set you never know if your problems are with techneque of using it or the set it'self. This may help people in that situation. If it helps someone learn to do it then I don't think paying for it is so silly.
And if it tempts someone into bushcraft and thinking / doing more in the future who are we to judge? How much have we all wasted on kit just to give us another excuse to go out and do more?Andy said:
Tantalus said:its ok even looking round this forum there are plenty of similar examples where people would rather spend their money on flash gear than use something which is free and easily available
each to his/her own i guess
Kudos to the seller for realising that people really will buy anything (and then pay a fiver to get it posted) on ebay
Tant
ps anyone want to buy some "ray mears bushcraft" kindling to go with it?
postage is only £9.99 this week , bids start at 1p.............................
I wouldn't joke about kindling - it could sell on ebay! I just looked at the sellers history and he has made quite a few sales. Humm, that gives me an idea
Try this one on ebay the sellers are making a lot of money on worthless currency Iraqi Dinars
To be honest I think it is a reasonable price for what he is selling. After all he ise'nt forcing anybody to buy.
As someone pointed out, it makes sense, for someone learning to light a fire with a bow drill on their own, to have the equipment which they know can do the job. They can then concentrate on technique and not worry about perfecting the equipment.
As someone pointed out, it makes sense, for someone learning to light a fire with a bow drill on their own, to have the equipment which they know can do the job. They can then concentrate on technique and not worry about perfecting the equipment.
I don't see anywhere a gaurantee that the sets that he's is turning out have ever produced an ember, so people do no know if the set works or not.
So for a beginner no they are not neccesarily the best as you may have a naff set and then think it is your technique.
So for a beginner no they are not neccesarily the best as you may have a naff set and then think it is your technique.
Look at it this way, if there is an increase in the amount of bushcraft related things being put up for sale for silly money and people are buying it (which there has been of late) then it means that more people are coming to recognise bushcraft and getting involved in it which is a good thing. I was flicking through some films on tv the other day and there was one from late last year that had the word Bushcraft in the description!!! Ooooh whatever next?!
I agree totally that it is missing the point! I feel strongly enough to put my opinion to this forum. Surely bushcraft is more than techniques, more than having the right gear and more than getting a fire kit pre-prepared (if it works or not). Bushcraft to me is a mind set. One that disregards short cuts in preferance to learning and it is important that some things in this world cannot be bought with cash. The person that buys that starter kit will be missing the point.
When I first learned to make and use a bow drill, I made every mistake possible. Now, if I have a problem piice of wood or something is not going right, I stop and I look at it and I think back to all my mistakes. Then I succeed.
Only £10.99 aaah. Its like giving children who are learning to read, books on tape, it doesn't help them to learn to read...
...Step down from soap box
When I first learned to make and use a bow drill, I made every mistake possible. Now, if I have a problem piice of wood or something is not going right, I stop and I look at it and I think back to all my mistakes. Then I succeed.
Only £10.99 aaah. Its like giving children who are learning to read, books on tape, it doesn't help them to learn to read...
...Step down from soap box
I'm thinking of marketing tailor made sticks, expertly cut to any length you require for a multitude of uses and can be burnt in a "survival situation". Do you think a pound per inch is too much?
Just think how many gas lighters you can buy for that money. You could possible get two firesteels instead.
Now I havnt been hanging around this site for long ,as far as I am aware I dont know any one and nobody knows me . Truthfully I dont even know who this Ray Mears chap is or what he has done which is any way special . Googling only tells me he has a school for teaching people (with money) to camp in the woods, he has written a few books (none of which I own) and has some dvds which are no use to me as I do not watch the telly. He does not seem to have done any expeds over a couple of months only things for the dvd. I think I may well find out in a minute But I genuinly do not know Any way I digress ,
Missing the point what exactly is the point . Cant make dont want to make a knife so spend £300
Cant make ,dont want to make a fire bow set so spend £10 Any real difference? Will they have a good time playing with there chosen tool I expect so. £10 to support a little man in the woods, £300 to support a myth , were is my £10
The vast majority of people who go down to the woods to play are doing just that playing and good on them
They go for a huge variety of reasons all of which make sense to them and may not make sense to me. On occations there seems to be a view given out on this site, by some people, that if you dont have the uniform clothes and standard tools you are some how a lesser being.
This seems to be encouraged by certain schools , some I see will only let particpants use a certain make of axe or knife for example are they just lazy or more likely lacking in real indepth experience? People gain there experience and knowledge in there own way and good luck to them.
Ohps I seem to have piled a few soap boxes on top of each other, hope the fall to the ground is not to hard 
seems to sum it up quite nicely
We, as a collective find it illogical to purchase something that can be readilly made by almost any of us because,as bushcrafters,we have already sought out the knowledge for ourselves.
there are some negative points in this particular instance the postage seems overly expensive and the set shown is hardly the finest example of how to make an ideal set, also oak is not exactly the easiest material for a beginner to start with!!
but on the whole I like swamp donkeys view on this, you dont have to be involved in bushcraft to use the bowdrill and I imagine most of the people who are buying them are doing so for a little fun which is educational on the side, nothing wrong with that.
unless a person has learnt the bowdrill themselves by trial and error and not paid out a few hundred quid to be taught how to use it at a school, they cannot even begin to argue that someone paying £10 to learn it is any different to themselves.
if you were taught by a friend or family then good for you, but many will not have this good fortune and if they only want to learn the bowdrill would you advice them to spend hundreds at a school or to pay £10 for a set they could examine and learn from in their own time?
but on the whole I like swamp donkeys view on this, you dont have to be involved in bushcraft to use the bowdrill and I imagine most of the people who are buying them are doing so for a little fun which is educational on the side, nothing wrong with that.
unless a person has learnt the bowdrill themselves by trial and error and not paid out a few hundred quid to be taught how to use it at a school, they cannot even begin to argue that someone paying £10 to learn it is any different to themselves.
if you were taught by a friend or family then good for you, but many will not have this good fortune and if they only want to learn the bowdrill would you advice them to spend hundreds at a school or to pay £10 for a set they could examine and learn from in their own time?
I am self taught on bow drill, my advice to them would be along the lines of this.
You have a computer do a search in the UK using Google for fire by friction or look up BushcraftUk, they have a section on firecraft that covers a lot more than just firebow. The people there are helpfull and arrange meetups everynow and then (some local and others are Bi-Annual national) so you can get help and advice in person.
It has been argued a lot on here that the most valuable thing is knowledge, buying a set does not provide knowledge in the same way as making a set from scratch.
Some argue that it shows an interest in Bushcraft, but does it show a higher degree of interest than someone who has gone out and made their set and then posts on here to find out where they are going wrong??
Others have mentioned that it is good because it shows that people are interested in bushcraft and that more people are getting into it, I also remember when this happened with climbing and other outdoor pursuits.
The one thing that nearly always happens with this is that the people that manufacture the kit that you use and provide the services you want put the prices up, is this good??
Don't get me wrong, I am happy that the interest is increasing, but I have seen what happens with other things that I love doing and am wary of it being a fashion thing, which inevitably will be expensive for some.
Right that's my soap box officially closed, I am off to finish the knife I am making and my latest set of moccasins
You have a computer do a search in the UK using Google for fire by friction or look up BushcraftUk, they have a section on firecraft that covers a lot more than just firebow. The people there are helpfull and arrange meetups everynow and then (some local and others are Bi-Annual national) so you can get help and advice in person.
It has been argued a lot on here that the most valuable thing is knowledge, buying a set does not provide knowledge in the same way as making a set from scratch.
Some argue that it shows an interest in Bushcraft, but does it show a higher degree of interest than someone who has gone out and made their set and then posts on here to find out where they are going wrong??
Others have mentioned that it is good because it shows that people are interested in bushcraft and that more people are getting into it, I also remember when this happened with climbing and other outdoor pursuits.
The one thing that nearly always happens with this is that the people that manufacture the kit that you use and provide the services you want put the prices up, is this good??
Don't get me wrong, I am happy that the interest is increasing, but I have seen what happens with other things that I love doing and am wary of it being a fashion thing, which inevitably will be expensive for some.
Right that's my soap box officially closed, I am off to finish the knife I am making and my latest set of moccasins
Other missing the points:
Ray Mears anything. Are we re-discovering the gear and techniques of old or simply copying one man's gear choice?
(Just editing this to add: never saw any Ray Mears program but would sure watch it if I could. Nothing against his show or TV learning, but the beauty of gear is 1. finding something that works for you and 2. having a "look" different than the other guy. Yes I have my Mora knife and firesteel like many here, but I also have gear particular to myself as an expression of who I am. Individuality is part of why we go to the woods, to get away from the unthinking robots back in town)
Driving a car to get to the woods. Be truthful, you are not a primative, you are a modern product of your enviroment. If you want to get on a high horse then strip naked, walk to the woods, knap a knife and go from there.
Firesteels. Yes they are great things little affected by weather and last a long time. But very very modern, I'd say as modern as a lighter.
Some bushcrafters have put down survivalist for all the toys when bushcrafters carry way more toys than primative man. I did not grow up in a forest community with flint knives and skin houses, therefore I need modern gear but camping in the woods puts me in a different class than one who never leaves the city.
It's all a matter of degrees and we are all in the middle.
Ray Mears anything. Are we re-discovering the gear and techniques of old or simply copying one man's gear choice?
(Just editing this to add: never saw any Ray Mears program but would sure watch it if I could. Nothing against his show or TV learning, but the beauty of gear is 1. finding something that works for you and 2. having a "look" different than the other guy. Yes I have my Mora knife and firesteel like many here, but I also have gear particular to myself as an expression of who I am. Individuality is part of why we go to the woods, to get away from the unthinking robots back in town)
Driving a car to get to the woods. Be truthful, you are not a primative, you are a modern product of your enviroment. If you want to get on a high horse then strip naked, walk to the woods, knap a knife and go from there.
Firesteels. Yes they are great things little affected by weather and last a long time. But very very modern, I'd say as modern as a lighter.
Some bushcrafters have put down survivalist for all the toys when bushcrafters carry way more toys than primative man. I did not grow up in a forest community with flint knives and skin houses, therefore I need modern gear but camping in the woods puts me in a different class than one who never leaves the city.
It's all a matter of degrees and we are all in the middle.
Tantalus said:Tant
ps anyone want to buy some "ray mears bushcraft" kindling to go with it?
postage is only £9.99 this week , bids start at 1p.............................
I got pine needles for pine needle tea. Start the bidding at a quid.
Sorry guys - selling a bow drill kit on eBay does not sit well with what I feel is the spirit of bushcraft. Like someone said, 'each to his own', but what would you say if there was a 'lean-to shelter kit' with genuine branches and foliage on eBay?
Ah well, good luck to guy who is trying to make money from this. Can't begrudge him that.
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