Too much Kit

[nipper]

Morning all

When I got back from tracking last weekend I threw my rucksack on the floor and asked myself, why do I take so much kit for 1 weekend?

I thought I am not going to make the same mistake again this weekend at the WG. So I started repacking and it still seems a load of kit. I am going to take the following:

2 x Changes of clothes
1 x Wash bag
1 x knife (I mean it! just one)
1 x tarp
1 x sleeping bag
1 x Bivvy bag
1 x Roll mat
1 x Water bottle
1 x Hexy or Triagia stove (can't decide)
1 x mug
1 x mess tins
1 x Knife/fork/spoon
2 x ration packs
1 x notebook/pen
1 x waterproof jacket
1 x head torch
1 x first aid kit

It still seems like a lot of kit for one weekend and I am sure somebody will tell me I have forgotten something essential.

Can anyone suggest a way of reducing the amount of kit we all carry?

Nick

 

[markw]

Perhaps a light weight hammock instead of the kip mat and bivi ?

 

[Doc]

Less clothes.
Lexan or titanium Spork instead of KFS.
Ration pack is ?4000 kcals each - I doubt you need that much for ordinary autumn bushcraft activity.
Otherwise it seems to be the essentials, but there may still be scope for improvement: eg my heaviest waterproof is 1.5kg and my lightest 400g!

 

[C_Claycomb]

That isn't so bad. That is about what I take and is about as pared down as I have managed. Hammocks still need insulation, you can use a thinner mat and be comfortable since it isn't acting as padding, but you don't save a lot otherwise.

What do your changes of clothes consist of? Chances are you won't need spare trousers. I always used to take a spare set, but after doing two week-long trips this summer where they just stayed in the pack, I reckon I can do without for one weekend.

The problem with packing for a weekend is that the amount of stuff isn't really all that much less than you would take for a week, kit quantity isn't proportional to trip duration at this end of the scale. There are some good thoughts on reducing kit on SgtRock's web site http://hikinghq.net/. You are pretty much down to just getting lighter more compact gear. Some people get things like MSR Titan kettles and use as mug, cooking pot and eating dish. They organise food so that they need no fork or table knife. Washbag is reduced to something of about 1.5x6x4 inches, or less by transfering just enough stuff for using on the trip, cutting handles off things and so forth.

How much does all your kit weigh and what pack do you need to fit it in?

 

[BlueTrain]

Take more food and less clothing and be sure to cut off the handle of your toothbrush.

Seriously, that is less than I seem to take, though I don't take even one change of clothes. I do take clothes to sleep in, believe it or not.

Although I spend a lot of time planning trips and messing around with all the gear I've accumulated and even acquiring more, once I set foot on the trail, I only think of three things: where I'm going, what I'm going to eat, and my feet.

All the camping I did in my youth was what you would call car camping (never heard it called pickup truck camping, which it really was). Only much later did I begin doing backpack-type camping. That wasn't something I picked up from the army, either! However, in between, I actually spent a lot of time in the woods because I lived much closer to places that I could get to quickly. But I was never out overnight or only rarely. But what I miss is the spontaneous, get-up-and-go circumstances of my woodland visitations. It was always a come-as-you-are thing. But then, I was never so far away that I could have crawled to the closest habitation. Things are different now.

These days I have less time but the places I go have designated wilderness areas (which is a joke). You have to camp in deep woods. I don't like camping under trees. But anyway. Take everything you want to have fun with and don't complain about the weight. Nessmuk, in his book Woodcraft, told of scolding a fellow camper who had taken along a lot of canned goods. However, he said he later forgave him and allowed him to share his groceries.

Life is hard enough. Take all the chocolate you can carry!

 

[moduser]

First check the 5 day weather forecast for where your going as that gives night temperatures as well as day.

If it's dry and warm (10+ degrees) do you need the bivi bag? Just lower your tarp to offer better protection from any breezes.

Spare clothes take shorts instead of spare trousers, lighter weight clothes for the weather expected (you'll always have your waterproofs just in case.

Ration packs are really heavy (very convienient though), how about more dried food? You know there is plenty of potable water where your going.

All this advice from someone who's pack is always over full and heavy

You know the old adage "do what I say, not what I do"

 

[P Wren]

I'm happy to 'fess up here for the amusement of others

On my first solo 'bushcrafty' trip I took just about everything bar the kitchen sink (ie second mess tin)…and paid the price.

I disappeared of into the New Forest taking untold amounts of kit, at least two sets of spare clothes, survival tin (why ? I was never more than a couple of ks from a road!), metal mess tins(x2) '58 pat mug, '58 pat water bottles (with plastic cups) x2 and a camelback with enough water to keep a dromedary hydrated for a month, head torch, right angle torch, spare D and AA batteries. Also an army sleeping bag weighing 3.5 kg, bivy bag, basha, kip mat and enough paracord to stretch to the moon and back and enough hexi tablets to have powered a blast fernace. I looked like something from a Nepalese expedition….oh and not forgetting my 35mm camera six films, metal tripod and 80mm spotter scope !

My DPM Bergen wasn't enough so I used a chest rig too.

Now I am quite fit but I wasn't prepared for what amounted to a fairly length weekend tab. When the blisters kicked in, burst, rubbed raw, and then just darn well bled freely and it rained hard for the second day in a row and I had a 22.5km tab back to the nearest railway station, and I ruptured both achilles tendons.....get the picture ...too much kit ! I promised never never never never never again would I carry so much as an unnecessary pencil!

To add insult to injury some 'tweed suited' local phoned the local Plod to report a heavily 'armed' individual ( ) marching across heath land towards Brockenhurst. As I was trudging through the driving rain I was flagged down by an unmarked Police Car. Standing there drenched in rain and sweat and in a great deal of pain and discomfort, I conceded to two highly amused Police officers sat in a warm dry unmarked police car that I could understand how a folded tripod and spotterscope could be mistaken for a L86A1, but that I could assure them that it wasn't.

I've never worn anything DPM again and have subsequently 'retired' by DPM bergen !

Moduser's advice is very sound - check the weather and pack your kit accordingly.

As for clothing I have found that beyond a couple of extra pair of socks (life is great when you change into fresh toasty socks) and a couple of t-shirts you really need very little other than what you are wearing. Even if your clothing is wet, drying them beneath your tarp overnight or walking cross country will dry out lightweight trousers t shirts etc.

For a typical weekend, Friday night to Sunday night, I'd take the following depending of course on weather and time of year:

Bergan 125litre OG (Yoke and Side Pockets/20litre day pack)

Sleep System
Merlin Sleeping bag + silk liner less than 1 kg
Jungle Hammock (Nomad) 0.5kg
Basha OG 0.6 kg

Sleep System (Winter or foul weather)
Either Bivy Bag with Basher and Hammock
or
Pro Action 'Tiger Paw' 1 person tent 1.9 kg and kip mat

Clothing Worn
2x Boxers (1 spare if necessary)
2x Socks (1 spare)
2x T-shirt (1 spare if necessary)
1 Helly Hansen crew top
Black Windproof Smock w.hood
Trousers US BDUs OG
Boots ancient pair of Polish boots

Clothing Spare (only if needed/depending on forecast)
Lightweight Waterproof Jacket & Trousers

Cooking and Water
Hexi stove and heximine fuel tablets
Or
MSR Pocket Rocket and gas
Snowpeak Titanium Mug/pot
A titanium spork
2 Litre Camelback
Pre Mac Pocket Well Water filter


Food rations
1x bowl of Oats and sultanas for breakfast
1x packet of noodles for lunch
1x Wayfarer Meals for each main evening meal
nibbles/ nuts/skittles/dried fruit
Herbal tea bags/reg tea bags
Sugar sachets
1/3 pint of milk in a plastic bottle

Tools and Stuff
Puukko knife
Crook Knife
Petzl Head Torch
Paracord 10m
Small pocket notepad and half a pencil (Ikea pencils good! )

Washkit
Flannel
Airline/travel toothbrush
Small hand towel or Yesterday's t shirt
Toilet roll (!)
First aid kit

 

[stevec]

I'm terrible at packing, either i've got way too much or (infrequently!) too little. i think i read someone (possibly the book of the bivi) that the way to reduce kit weight is as follows.
Get home, unpack. Divide kit into three piles, the stuff you used every day, the stuff ou used on the odd occasion, the stuff you didn't use.
now making exceptions like first aid kits, chuck all the stuff in piles 2 and 3.
drastic, and i fully confess i've yet to try this method!!!
all the best
sc

 

[BlueTrain]

Isn't it odd that camouflage made you more visible? Or at least more noticeable.

Come to think of it, I've never seen anyone wearing camouflage (DPM, duck-hunter, tiger stripe, or anything) when I've been on a jaunt through the woods and I don't wear it so much either in the woods. I otherwise wear DPM a lot and I don't seem to attract any attention. I have seen army packs in use (ALICE) and belt kit (web belt and canteen (water bottle), too. But other than myself, who is always different, most backpackers seem to be outfitted from the same store (which is very likely to be Hudson Trail Outfitters, Fairfax Circle, Fairfax, Virginia). Not that I am complaining. It makes no difference to me but they are a conforming lot.

But how did they see you in the first place?

 

[addyb]

Carrying that much kit when you go out in the bush isn't such a bad thing. The way I look at, you can take as much kit as you want, because you're the one humping it. It's your back that's carrying it, not mine!

 

[P Wren]

stevec's comment about dividing up your kit reassessing its usefulness after a period camping is spot on. Dividing up your kit based on how much you used an item should enable you to weed out surplus items. For me the fascinating aspect of bushcraft is learning how to use the natural resources in the environment you're in enabling you to dispense with even more surplus kit.

No two people are going to have identical kit lists - what you should take should suit your own requirements, the key thing is to really think what you need based on where you are going and at what time of year. I don't need axes or saws in the New Forest as I would not light a fire there and instead use a hexi stove or my MSR pocket rocket.

A mate of mine insists on taking his GPS, Ipod, a novel or two, heart rate monitor …I could go on but you get the point…..not my cup of tea - I'd prefer to take some hot chocolate powder or a pair of small binoculars for wildlife watching.

BlueTrain - Good point - why did I stand out using a DPM Bergen and chest rig ? Perhaps I should put the scenario in context - the New Forest in Hampshire is 45,000 acres of 900-year-old open forest and heath. It's quite a sleepy area littered with posh little villages and and small towns. The area was granted National park Status earlier this year. It’s a beautiful area - but not truly remote. You are rarely a three or four of kilometers from a road village or town - it's not wilderness, like you have in the US. But it's quite possible to break off the trails and spend a few days-uninterrupted watching deer, badgers, birds of prey etc.

While the Military do use the New Forest for maneuvers, you rarely trip over them. I suspect I was spotted because my Bergen and chest rig were Camo/DPM, HUGE, I was out in weather that no sane person would be walking of their own volition and I was carrying my spotterscope and tripod at waist level (as I was unable to shoulder it because of my chest rig and bergen ), head down and walking hard - I guess as I walked through this tiny village, some 'old dear' thought I was a soldier, mistook my tripod for a military rifle and phoned the police.

I wasn't amused at the time as I'd done myself a serious injury (I still have Achilles tendentious!) carrying so much kit - Five years on - I think it's quite funny.

 

[Tony Cameron]

Cut down on clothes . The set you are stood in and a little spare, maybe underpants !

The rest seems ok. I take Tarp, Hammock and emergency blanket in case but no tent.

When I started out I did the same but will go now with 50ltr sack maximum for weekend.

 

[simonsays]

Anyone who has ever seen me out and about would probably say that I am the last person who should give advice on packing light (See my avatar) but I am -trying- to whittle the kit down.
Looking at your kit list I would consider cutting out a few things. The second spare set of clothes probably wont be needed on a weekend outing. I wouldnt bother taking the knife and fork, always seem to manage with just a spoon (you could even carve one) and if you take the Trangia you can do without the mess tins.
As someone else pointed out, the ration packs are probably too much food. Rather than just packing 'em try and plan out what you will have for each meal and keep just a little in reserve.

Good luck with the weight loss......

Simon

 

[lostplanet]

seeing this thread rather makes a new one pointless so would you guys post average weight of your kit for a weekend? including the water you will carry would be good
been a while since ive been out, but on a dry run the other night i ended up carrying 22 kilo for a planned weekend out ie three nights, how does your gear weight compare AAMOI?

issue bergen and side pouches
ortlieb extra large lightweight canoe bag.
various stuff sacks
dutch issue poncho
thermarest
snugpak travelite bag
issue goretex bivvy bag
2x issue 58 waterbottles
1x ortlieb 2L
2x issue mess tins
pocket rocket
large gas canister
spoon
2x 24hr rat packs
stainless steel nato mug
2x tshirts spare
1x spare lightweight denims
2x spare socks
1x norgey
2x spare undies
pair of seal skinz
issue dpm goretex smock
issue dpm goretex trouser
shemagh as towel, hat (at night)etc
knife
cord
first aid kit/emergency bits
wash kit
notebook,pen, map compass and case
petzl tikka plus
paramo gaiters (maybe?)
silly boonie hat
bog roll, wet-ones

wearing:
black smock
t shirt
OG light weight denims
alt bergs
undies, etc

sounds like im going on a mission i know.....
im expecting bad weather and although i dont want to carry loads of excess kit i would like to get used to a heavier bag for fitness aspect.

also after some research i found that the issue rat packs work out at about 2500 calories, does anyone know different for sure?
cheers

 

[R-J]

light is the way to go! when i'm off out for the night/weekend this is what usualy in my pack (35L forces 33 if i'm not walking far, or my 50L vaude H2O proof for distance, comfy harness!)

sleeping system:
buffalo down 'bag (for summer, need a bigger pack to fit the winter 'bag)
3/4 thermarest
hammock
aussie hootchi

cooking (cant leave home without these, ever lol):
coleman F1 ultralight w/50 size canister
my trusty mug
pancake mix and small pan

clothing:
spare t-shirt
fleece
waterproof/windproof outer
spare socks

food/water:
camelpack
meals/snacks depending on time of year and duration
(dehydrated when possible)

firstaid:
assorted plasters, antiseptic cream, 2nd skin

other:
bush knife
mag block with striker (soon to be replaced by a fire steel)
opinel no 4

think thats it, i had a list a while ago but i'm a tad chaotic when it come to keeping stuff on file...

weight wise, i think it usualy comes in at under 10 kg, if my memory is still working. i've got to keep the kg down as my puffin only has a 130 kg payload, and i'm quite big (its all ballast for the front row, honest) so the lighter the weight the longer i can canoe for.

 

[AUSSIE]

22kg for a weekend is insane!! Even if it were mid UK winter!! I'll get a list together myself for winter in South East Australian Great Dividing Range. Average temps night / morning 0 to -5c sometimes going down to -10 / -12c. I'll get back soon with this.

lostplanet

I know you say you want to do this for fitness etc but as in get fit for what, to carry heavier packs???

I'd start by examining your Bergen itself, empty what does it weigh 2.5 maybe 3 kgs plus?? For a weekend find another pack. Dump the side pouches for a start and save another 500grams! Two issue mess tins ditch them! Find the largest stainless steel cup you can find they are almost like a small billy but with a handle on the side and weigh almost nothing! Dump at least one spare T-Shirt, Ortlieb water carrier plus two Nato Bottles? That lot just to begin with will save you at least 5kgs. Two 24 hour rat packs? IMHO heaviest outdoor food option on the planet!

 

[lostplanet]

sorry to jack this thread...
the bergen alone weighs 2.5 kilos.

heavier packs, Yep, the fitness thing is where i eventually want to go climbing and the kit with ropes harness etc probably weighs twice that so there is a little method in my madness. i didnt feel too bad the other night with 22k but then i only did a 4 mile bimble.is an aussie kilo the same as a pomme one?
got a nato mug, side pouches weigh 0.7 kilo, mess tins weigh 0.4 kilo
got to have the grub but i know what you mean 1.7 kilos per pack, most of this will be in belly first thing in the morning.so if i leave out the water thats 7 kilos ish off.looking futher into it now.

thanks btw

 

[lostplanet]

ok ditched goretex jacket (use ponchno instead), 1 rat pack and add couple of dried jobbys, 1 t shirt, 2L water(undecided),
ortlieb dry bag (use bin liner instead) side pouches, mess tins, gaiters, some other crap.
now weighing at 12.2 Kilos so i could prolly get it down to 10 if i was ruthless.

 

[lostplanet]

now ditched the bergen and managed to get all my kit in the 30L sabre
but weighs in at 8.6 kilos , wheres that 45 sabre deal thread mmm

 

[Goose]

ok ditched goretex jacket (use ponchno instead), 1 rat pack and add couple of dried jobbys, 1 t shirt, 2L water(undecided),
ortlieb dry bag (use bin liner instead) side pouches, mess tins, gaiters, some other crap.
now weighing at 12.2 Kilos so i could prolly get it down to 10 if i was ruthless.

Dried jobbies?
You take them with you?