Thought for the day

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Gary

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 17, 2003
2,603
2
57
from Essex
It takes a ton of soil, torn from the earth and washed down with a solution of cynide to produce a few meagre ounces of gold.

By the law of averages this means approximately 25% or more animals and fish die to make one average gold necklace than die to make one fur coat!

And the PC CREW all but banned the wearing of fur!
 

Kim

Nomad
Sep 6, 2004
473
0
50
Birmingham
Gary, do you have a book entitled...random sobering thoughts for the day? :shock:

Please post something along the lines of...pair of dodo's found safe and well in shropshire...or Japanese whaler eaten by moby ****...or something...

Seriously though...I never knew that...I've never been into Jewellery anyway, but it's a huge industry...I didn't realise how much of an enviromental effect it could have.
 

Justin Time

Native
Aug 19, 2003
1,064
2
South Wales
Yup, environmentalists have been campaigning about this for years, but I guess that, like oil, there's so much money to be made for big companies that governments aren't going to pay much attention. Of course it's easier to make a splash about furs because the British public are a tad sentimental when it comes to images of animals being cut up.... Gold is also that bit more ubiquitous than fur
 

Gary

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 17, 2003
2,603
2
57
from Essex
To right Wayne, however the gold used in a pc or offer circuit boards and dentistry is next to nothing and could easily be supplied by all the small (non) mining operations around the world. In fact if everyone traded in their jewelry we'd have enough gold to last a long time without mining it at all.

JT your right, pictures of a fluffy seal pup being clubbed to death is easier for propaganda (and I am against glamour fur items too) but this is also just another example of fad PCness fueled by media hype - if the media and the 'do-gooders' showed pictures of forest torn apart but gold mines, if they showed pictures of hundreds of animals (including the fluffy ones) caused to die slow deaths by starvation brought on by lose of habitate, if they showed pictures of rivers poisoned with cynide....


Anyway it was just a thought............
 

Wayne

Mod
Mod
Dec 7, 2003
3,753
645
51
West Sussex
www.forestknights.co.uk
sadly we live in a media lead society. Todays news is tomorrows history. How long before we forget the devastation caused the by Tsunami. Not only is there massive human loss of life, it can't of done the rare creature living in these communities any favours at all. The conservation efforts in Zimbabwe have stopped and people when hungry eat bushmeat. Hopefully we may learn finally that we are not above nature.
 

Gary

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 17, 2003
2,603
2
57
from Essex
Again your right Wayne, however nature wiping out a rare breed isnt something we have control over and nor should we (arguments about conservation aside if a species is due to become extinct for none man made reasons we should just leave nature alone, she knows best IMO) The Tsunami will be news only until Beckham is caught on camera picking his nose or some such trivil thing.
 

Burnt Ash

Nomad
Sep 24, 2003
338
1
East Sussex
Gary said:
To right Wayne, however the gold used in a pc or offer circuit boards and dentistry is next to nothing and could easily be supplied by all the small (non) mining operations around the world. In fact if everyone traded in their jewelry we'd have enough gold to last a long time without mining it at all.

You know that for certain fact do you Gary?

Burnt Ash
(former gold plant metallurgist; current gold mining industry analyst)
 

Gary

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 17, 2003
2,603
2
57
from Essex
I dont claim to be a mining expert, but if all the gold used in jewelry now, past and present wasnt enough to supply pc circuit boards and such, along with stuff produced by the non mining industry and the recycling of old circuit boards ect I would suggest the world is in a bad way, after all that must equal 10's of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of tons of gold - (of course no one is going to trade in their old gold thats just hypothetical after all gold, like fur, is all about ego and image).

In fact if that wasnt enough I would have to wonder at it and wonder what the gold industry and more importantly the legislative governements are doing? Because if the industry needed 100's of thousands of tons of gold to be produced that would equate to millions of tons, 10's of millions of tons of earth mined and thats a scary thought.

BA if your know exact figures I'd be interested to read them btw might shed no light on things.

Still as I say it's all hypothetical while gold,like oil, is money and big business things wont change, human greed will ensure that.
 

Burnt Ash

Nomad
Sep 24, 2003
338
1
East Sussex
Gary said:
I dont claim to be a mining expert, but if all the gold used in jewelry now, past and present wasnt enough to supply pc circuit boards and such, along with stuff produced by the non mining industry and the recycling of old circuit boards ect I would suggest the world is in a bad way, after all that must equal 10's of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of tons of gold - (of course no one is going to trade in their old gold thats just hypothetical after all gold, like fur, is all about ego and image).

In fact if that wasnt enough I would have to wonder at it and wonder what the gold industry and more importantly the legislative governements are doing? Because if the industry needed 100's of thousands of tons of gold to be produced that would equate to millions of tons, 10's of millions of tons of earth mined and thats a scary thought.

BA if your know exact figures I'd be interested to read them btw might shed no light on things.

Still as I say it's all hypothetical while gold,like oil, is money and big business things wont change, human greed will ensure that.

I'm not going to get into some facile argument on the merits or otherwise of the capitalist system. It's the one we (i.e., most of the world) live under and the alternatives seem to have been, shall we say, "not very successful". We live in the modern world. Most people in the world want stuff and things and the benefits of technology, the raw materials for which have to be got from somewhere. The computer you're reading this on wasn't plucked from a tree!
Acquisitiveness (greed) is a human thing. Nearly all of us have it to some degree. It's partly (largely?) what drives us as a species.

Gold has been used for adornment and as a store of wealth for about 6,000 years (that we have hard evidence for). For every Arab oil sheikh or over-paid footballer with solid gold bath taps, there are hundreds of millions of ordinary Asian and African folk whose wealth, individually, is stored in a few gold bangles and rings. It is what they have trusted for many hundreds of years. We can try and buck that system, but it will take some doing. Your missus might tolerate a carved wooden wedding ring ...mine (plus a few million others) wouldn't!

All of the gold ever 'produced' by man amounts to around 150,000 tonne. Considerably more than half of that has been produced in the last 50 years (ex. 6,000 years). All of the gold ever mined would occupy a cube of side ca. 20 metre. Current annual world production is ca. 2,500 tonne.

Gold mining is a very technical business, requiring expertise in many disciplines (forget bearded old fools, with pans and shovels and donkeys). It can be very risky, at many levels. I won't pretend that gold mining (or any other kind of mining) is blameless now, or has been in the past. However, I suspect that, at this point in history, global mining practices are probably a deal less exploitative than currently obtain in -for example- the textile industry/rag trade (think about that next time you pick up that bargain T-shirt). These days, permitting of all extractive industries is incredibly expensive and long drawn-out. Local inhabitants are consulted and often benefit considerably from generous compensations (not to mention the opportunity of well-paid employment). Provisions for post-mining land reclamation and refurbishment are significant items in any mining company's balance sheet (and I have seen some admirable examples).

Well, there are a few facts and a few comments to chew on. I really can't be arsed to mount a full-on spirited defence of the extractive industries, but I'll suggest one more thing. All of us on BCUK and similar forums may be passionately interested in simple, primitive ways of doing things, but don't think for a moment that the whole of humanity could revert to knitting it's own sandals and grubbing around with sticks for nourishing roots.

Burnt Ash
 

Abbe Osram

Native
Nov 8, 2004
1,402
22
61
Sweden
milzart.blogspot.com
Burnt Ash said:
All of us on BCUK and similar forums may be passionately interested in simple, primitive ways of doing things, but don't think for a moment that the whole of humanity could revert to knitting it's own sandals and grubbing around with sticks for nourishing roots.

Burnt Ash

Hi guys,

That entire nations have and are able to collapse we witnessed already in history. But why cant we imagen that our own capitalistic system might crash soon down too? If its true about the oil peak I believe that......


http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/BreakingNews.html

....everyone soon will get their fair share of knitting its own sandals and grubbing around with sticks.

oh, well
Abbe
 

Burnt Ash

Nomad
Sep 24, 2003
338
1
East Sussex
Abbe Osram said:
Hi guys,

That entire nations have and are able to collapse we witnessed already in history. But why cant we imagen that our own capitalistic system might crash soon down too? If its true about the oil peak I believe that......


http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/BreakingNews.html

....everyone soon will get their fair share of knitting its own sandals and grubbing around with sticks.

oh, well
Abbe

Well then, Abbe, perhaps those of us with a few cards up our sleeves (both technical and primitive) might be in with a slim chance of survival. Que sera, sera!

Burnt Ash
 

Quill

Need to contact Admin...
Jun 29, 2004
80
0
Wisconsin
I am not a gold expert, although I worked for a jewelry manufacturer for 7 years. Even work on the Olympic gold plated medallians. I have also panned for gold a bit. I think the main point here is that many decry one thing and turn a blind eye to things equally bad if not worse. Like the vegan who wears leather shoes. Oh yeah there are few bearded men with burros, picks and shovels who look for gold. Most prefer a Jeep or other 4x4 to get them there. Some tread lightly as they go, others do not. By the way most jewelry is not 24k gold, very few things are. They are certainly beyond my budjet. :wink:
 

Gary

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 17, 2003
2,603
2
57
from Essex
Quill said:
I am not a gold expert, although I worked for a jewelry manufacturer for 7 years. Even work on the Olympic gold plated medallians. I have also panned for gold a bit. I think the main point here is that many decry one thing and turn a blind eye to things equally bad if not worse. Like the vegan who wears leather shoes. Oh yeah there are few bearded men with burros, picks and shovels who look for gold. Most prefer a Jeep or other 4x4 to get them there. Some tread lightly as they go, others do not. By the way most jewelry is not 24k gold, very few things are. They are certainly beyond my budjet. :wink:


Well said Quill and well pointed out - the original context of the thread was that while gold and fur are fashionable, both are damaging to wild life ect yet gold is deemed ok while fur is not and all the conjecture there after was a little off topic and as such I will end my oration here but let me just point out the following before I go.

Each to their own, the thread was posted as a thought and as such has generated much for us to think about. I appreciate BA's arguement for the gold industry even with only a few facts presented it is possible to see the scope of the industry ect, but as I say it is all a hypothetical question because as BA rightly points out we live in the 21st century and modern man generally is a blind, self serving creature who only cares about issues which directly effect him or which are seen to be 'COOL' and as such the death of a few fur seal pups is seen as far worse than the ragged scars which will take centurys to heal and pock mark many landscapes.

As Abbe points out the Oil peak is a far greater threat to us and the fabric of our society and as such is something we should worry about far more

I agree the whole of humanity will not likely be reduced to knitting sandals in our life times and hopefully never but I have also seen first hand how quickly a society can break down and the depth's it can decend into once this happens and as we are seeing now with the Tsunami our precious little world is full of surprises, Im sure the thai never expected their homes to be wiped out so suddenly either.

Its all a matter of prespective isnt it.

More to the point if we all decided to turn our backs on the modern world and technology I am sure our childrens children would quickly rediscover it - we need to learn to embrace the future with a sustainable out look not turn our backs on it - its here like it or not after all.

Finally, as the Russians say, a man with one eye on the future is blind in one eye. A man who looks only to the future is blind in both.
 

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