The importance of Candle Watch!

[Greg]

For those of you that aren't aware, Candle Watch is what you have to do when sharing a snowhole with other people.

When you are in a snowhole a single candle provides light and warmth(surprisingly) but most important it tells you there is enough oxygen in the snowhole.

When a snow hole is dug/excavated a ventilation hole is required, this is done by punching a hole in the roof with a ski/walking-pole. the pole is then left in place so you can periodically clear the vent hole.

The entrance to the snowhole must also be prevented from filling up with snow, which when it is blowing a hooley outside can happen very rapidly. so a snow shovel is placed by the entrance at all times.

Candle Watch is a duty which is shared by the occupants of the shelter.
During the Watch, which could be between 1-2hrs, the duty person is to stay awake to ensure all the preventions are kept upto scratch.

While in Norway on a training exercise, I shared a snowhole with 3 other lads, the Tent group commander(as he was known) had allocated the Candle Watch duty rosta between the four of us and after we had all had our food and sorted our stuff out, 3 of us settled down for the night. And the lad on duty had a 2hr stint.
However, sometime during that stint the lad fell asleep(A big No,No!).
A few hours later, luckily for us all, one of the lads woke up, Shocked!!
It was pitch black and his head was wet, The candle had gone out, the vent hole was blocked and the entrance to the snowhole was also blocked and on top of all that the heat from our bodies had melted the ceiling which had dropped and was virtually touching us. Bearing in mind when you dig a snowhole you normally have about 2m of compact snow above you if not more. and this is pretty heavy.

So, headtorches on trying not to panic, we packed our gear as well as possible, whilst in the lying down position due to the proximity of the ceiling, and then we dug our way out into the night, the weather was b***dy horrendous we then had to make our way down to the emergency tents, which were unmanned and absolutely coverdered in snow, which we had to clear before getting inside, once inside we then had to try to get the coleman lamp and stove going with very cold hands, which isn't easy, just to get warm again. Probably the most miserable night in memory for me all because the lad fell asleep on Candle Watch!
Even worse than the two survival nights with next to no gear and the ice breaking drills that I had to endure in Norway during initial Arctic Survival Training.
It was that bad.

If that lad hadn't woken up from being wet we would all probably have died of asphixciation, I know its a bit doom and gloom but its reality.

So there you have it the importance of Candle Watch!

 

[Shibari.surfer]

Sounds like you all were pretty lucky -bet the lad that fell asleep was popular

 

[Greg]

Oh, you wouldn't believe how popular he was with the Sgt Major!!
The boys feet didn't touch the ground for days!!

 

[JonnyP]

I knew about the candle raising the temperature to around freezing point, but didn't realise about running out of oxygen in a snow hole, cheers for that Greg...

 

[oldsoldier]

Yeah, falling alseep during watch is a bad, bad thing.
We used to stick a ski pole up through the roof, and, once a watch, the guy on watch would wiggle it around, to keep it free. You guys were lucky.
And, a candle keeps it warmER; not "dance around in skivvies" warm though

 

[Ed]

Thats a great post greg, and a lesson everyone should heed if venturing out in those sorts of conditions.


Ed

 

[Paul K]

Greg

Interesting post. Was the snow-hole dug into a mountainside, with a lot of snow above it? What shape was the roof of your snow-hole - flat, A-shape or dome/curved?

Cheers

Paul

 

[Greg]

Hi Paul, the snowhole was dug into a slope on a mountain side, and it originally had a domed roof.

 

[Swede]

I know how mad one gets when the fire-watch guy falls asleep (in a big 16-20 man tent). And the others start to throw things at him to awaken because they start to feel frozen and can´t sleep. One trick to use is to fold the swedish infantry-shovel in 90 degrees. Put the handle to the ground and sit on the shovelblade. Then you have to keep your mind on not losing your balance.

@ Greg

A nasty situation you were in. I´m glad it ended well for all of you. I wouldn´t want to be in that guys shoes after that incident. /Swede

 

[John Fenna]

I too once went to sleep with room so sit on my bed shelf and woke with the snow almost down to my face - scary!
During the night a blizzard had also dumped huge amounts of snow and we had to dig ourselves out - into winds that picked me up and threw me about 20 foot!
An emergency retreat was called for.
A foil blanket I had wrapped around my roll mat on the outside of my pack shredded away until only the bits under the straps was left - and I never noyiced it happening. Scary weekend!
And this was not in a glam location just the Cairngorms, snowholing in the corries above Loch Avon, only minutes from the Ptarmigan cafe and ski lifts (which closed due to the weather).
Yes we had checked the weather forcast which made no mention of storms, rising temps or anything!
It took years off me and taught me to plan for the worst case scenario.
Keep up the candle watch - and weather watch!
John

 

[big_swede]

I have slept in snow holes a lot (in 2006 it was only 16 nights though). Never had any problems with oxygen depletion (the surrounding snow is full of air, oxygen depletion is only a problem if you stay for a longer time in the same hole and the walls get frozen, then you need to scrape the floor and ceiling), and never used candle watch. Even if you have good ventilation the snow above will get closer as air is easier to compact than the surrounding snow. But not so much as you describe.

What we usually do is to dig the trench between the beds so it slopes downwards towards the exit, that way the heavier carbondioxide and carbonmonoxides runs out. And usually we have quite abig opening with a back pack partially covering the hole, and as you say, a shovel by the exit. And the airvents as described by you. Only once did I experience that it got to wet inside, and that was because of real heavy snow drift. It was quite easily fixed by removing the back pack and digging away the 2m of snow covering the door and poking around with the poles.

We only use candles for light though, I think the body heat of 2-4 persons is enough inside. Usually the temp gets around -2, which is a nice temp in my opinion.

 

[Greg]

It was Norwegian army officers who trained with us who like yourself had a lot of experience snowholing that instructed us on candle watch and the effects of oxygen depletion. So if it wasn't needed why did the officers instruct us on the importance of it?

Which method of snowholing do you employ? Block and cave or tunneling?
We used the tunneling method.
The construction of the snow hole was in such a way that we had our cold hole/trench by the entrance tunnel in front and below the snowhole platfom area which the 4 of us slept on.

But unlike yourselves we were trainees and obviously hadn't dug the snowhole the hole perfectly - maybe the roof wasn't high enough or maybe the angle of the dome was to shallow all I know is that it came down very quickly. Maybe it was because of the amount of fresh snow that was being dumped on top of us by the hooley outside. I can honestly say I have never really thought about it.
And at the end of the day which is more important we got out and did what we had to do to stay warm!

 

[torjusg]

I know for a fact that most Norwegian army officers aren't experts in very much at all. They learn too much, too quickly, but lack the neccesary experience. And quite often the skills they learn are based on misconceptions. The army is a very rigid system, it doesn't applaude new ideas. If wrong information has come into the system, it will not change.

Don't be fooled of that they are good on skis, because most Norwegians are.

PS! I don't say that this has to be the case in every event, but unlike in Sweden, where they seem to employ specialists (like Lars Fält), my experience is that the instructors here in Norway pretty much only have done it a couple of times themselves.

 

[big_swede]

It was Norwegian army officers who trained with us who like yourself had a lot of experience snowholing that instructed us on candle watch and the effects of oxygen depletion. So if it wasn't needed why did the officers instruct us on the importance of it?

Which method of snowholing do you employ? Block and cave or tunneling?
We used the tunneling method.
The construction of the snow hole was in such a way that we had our cold hole/trench by the entrance tunnel in front and below the snowhole platfom area which the 4 of us slept on.

But unlike yourselves we were trainees and obviously hadn't dug the snowhole the hole perfectly - maybe the roof wasn't high enough or maybe the angle of the dome was to shallow all I know is that it came down very quickly. Maybe it was because of the amount of fresh snow that was being dumped on top of us by the hooley outside. I can honestly say I have never really thought about it.
And at the end of the day which is more important we got out and did what we had to do to stay warm!

I don't know your situation at that time so it's hard to say. I have a couple of norweigan friends who I use to do trips with and all of them were rangers in the norweigan army, noone ever mentioned a candle watch. Neither does another friend who is an certified mountain guide. When I was in service, I didn't hear a word about it. I'm certainly not an expert, but I just haven't done any candle watching. And to be honest I never even heard of a hole caving in. Odd! How was the temperature outside?

We usually dig a rectangular corridor in to the snow, dome the ceiling a bit and then we saw out blocks to the sides, down to kneeheight were we make beds, usually two on each side of the corridor. The blocks are then used as brick on the hole, leaving a small entrance hole low down.

 

[Greg]

Thanks for your input lads, I guess the instructors were full of it then!
Nothing unusual there then when it comes to the army.

So "Big Swede" you use what I was taught was a block & cave method.
I did that during training and It took longer to build than the tunneling method which is where you tunnel into a deep drift and once you are in about 2m you start digging out a space around you until it is obviously big enough to be occupied by how ever many people are going to use it. You obviously then fashion platform and cold hole.

I spent 5 winters in Norway and that was the only time anything like that happened. The Norwegian liason officers were there as advisors to our instructors and they were all members of the 5th Telemark Battalion which we were led to believe were the Norwegian army winter specialists, not including the special forces obviously, which by the way wouldn't use candle watch because it isn't tactically sound. and as those guys are trained to work behind enemy lines I'm not surprised.

But as it happens the Head British instructor (Arctic Warfare Officer) was a Royal Marine Arctic Warfare Cadre Mountain Leader and my boss in Norway spent 14yrs with 22 SAS and he never mentioned anything about it being wrong and you know the SAS are the best special forces unit in the world!

So if the advice from the Norwegian guys was wrong I'm absolutely possitive it would have been mentioned and something done about it by our instructors!

 

[big_swede]

Thanks for your input lads, I guess the instructors were full of it then!
Nothing unusual there then when it comes to the army.

So "Big Swede" you use what I was taught was a block & cave method.
I did that during training and It took longer to build than the tunneling method which is where you tunnel into a deep drift and once you are in about 2m you start digging out a space around you until it is obviously big enough to be occupied by how ever many people are going to use it. You obviously then fashion platform and cold hole.

I spent 5 winters in Norway and that was the only time anything like that happened. The Norwegian liason officers were there as advisors to our instructors and they were all members of the 5th Telemark Battalion which we were led to believe were the Norwegian army winter specialists, not including the special forces obviously, which by the way wouldn't use candle watch because it isn't tactically sound. and as those guys are trained to work behind enemy lines I'm not surprised.

But as it happens the Head British instructor (Arctic Warfare Officer) was a Royal Marine Arctic Warfare Cadre Mountain Leader and my boss in Norway spent 14yrs with 22 SAS and he never mentioned anything about it being wrong and you know the SAS are the best special forces unit in the world!

So if the advice from the Norwegian guys was wrong I'm absolutely possitive it would have been mentioned and something done about it by our instructors!

I've spent a lot more than 5 winters in the arctic. And I'm not going to start a debate about what is right or wrong. But as you've already experienced the candle watch might not be necessary. I have no doubt that your officers and liason officers are good at what they do. I'm sure there great. We might just have a different way of doing things. Although the SAS are really good there are probably people better at arctic warfare then them (the sirius patrol for instance..). And all my officers were born and raised in the far north, they might not be equal at the warfare bit, but I think they knew what they were doing when it comes to sheltering. And fact remains, what you call an arctic training exercise used to be an ordinary day for us. And that is basically what we do for recreation, bar the fighting bit..

The tunnel method is a faster way yes, but would I use it? No, not as you describe it. There is one way to tunnel a nice shelter. But it takes a lot of time, and you need a lot of snow. You start by tunneling two parallell corridors into the snow, going somewhat upwards and with a good 4-5 meters apart. When you have gotten a good 3 meters in you start diggin inwards, making a corridor between the two first ones. And then you dig out a domed sleeping area as a continuation of the corridor inbetween. Hmm confusing, yes, but make sure the CO2 and CO can escape downwards through the leaning tunnels. In the corners, you can make benches for stoves, as the CO can run straight out.

I just wanna round of with a funny story. Me and a couple of friends were out on a winter trip on skis. We decided to sleep in a snow hole, but we didn't have any snow saw. My suggestion, as I was taught in the service, was to use the skis and poles as horisontals and cover with snowblocks. One guy had an 'smart' idea, "let's use a poncho instead!". I tried to convince him that would of course not work, but he kept on insisting, "of course it will work!". I gave up and let him try to close the big opening with his german army poncho. He tried to fasten it with some ski poles. Here's the result:

A snow filled corridor, and a snow filled cold hat. I've had nicer mornings.

 

[Greg]

Thanks for the discussion it has been very enlightening, Didn't want to argue with you mate but it was just the way I was trained, and if we had winters like you guys then I would hope that I would have been as experienced as you.
A bit of force rivalry after all is good for the soul!

By the way who are the Sirius Patrol? Are they part of Swedens Arctic Rangers?
I only ask because I have just been speaking to a Swedish friend of mine who was in the Army and he hasn't heard of them!

Its been a good bit of banter, thanks

Maybe next time it won't be so heated!

And in the future if I have any queries about winter training I hope you don't mind if I ask you.

Cheers!!

 

[big_swede]

Thanks for the discussion it has been very enlightening, Didn't want to argue with you mate but it was just the way I was trained, and if we had winters like you guys then I would hope that I would have been as experienced as you.
A bit of force rivalry after all is good for the soul!

By the way who are the Sirius Patrol? Are they part of Swedens Arctic Rangers?
I only ask because I have just been speaking to a Swedish friend of mine who was in the Army and he hasn't heard of them!

Its been a good bit of banter, thanks

Maybe next time it won't be so heated!

And in the future if I have any queries about winter training I hope you don't mind if I ask you.

Cheers!!

Don't wan't to pose as any kind of expert, the guys (and girls) I go with are usually more experienced than me. Just saying what I (think I) know

The sirius patrol are a part of the danish defense forces. They are a military dogsled unit patroling greenland, operationally under the greenland command. In winter they use dogsleds, and during summer they patrol the fjords by small military vessels. These guys serve for a minimum of 26 months at a time. Makes me wish a was danish. So I could apply

cheers

 

[Greg]

I wonder if they are a part of the Danish Recce units? I served with them in Turkey and Norway, they were extremely good at their jobs.

 

[John Dixon]

I have tunneled when i am mountaneering, and the the only time i have seen the roof drop to that degree is when the snow layers are unstable. ie. there is a weaker layer alowing the top layers to slip down. Avalanche prone.... this can close your vent hole at the top and dump a load of snow on the door way.... could this of happened??