Tactical or traditional?

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Broch

Full Member
Jan 18, 2009
3,810
2,989
Mid Wales
@barclay03
Where is your Karrimor Sabre produced?
I didn't find the information in the internet.
Make sure you're looking at Karrimor SF - a completely different company to the Sports Direct Karrimor. It's a company based in England but, like nearly all manufacturers (including Fjallraven and the like) it doesn't actually tell you where stuff is made because nearly all companies these days get stuff from all over the world to remain competitive.
 

richy3333

Full Member
Jan 23, 2017
218
54
Far NW Scoootland
I’ve several Tasmania Tiger rucksacks and they’re bomb proof. Mine are really well made, hard wearing and well finished etc. The V2 back system is very comfortable and adjustable also, particularly for me as I have a bad back.
 

marcoruhland

Full Member
Apr 23, 2020
25
11
Germany
hi if you are looking for a tactical backpack with molle that is made in europe and in my opinion actually the strongest backpack on the market - than look for

savotta jaakari ( i owned the whole series and some parts from varusteleka which are also made from savotta e.g. rp80 ) and there funny videos this is not a fake!

the other company (made in usa) with a very high build quality is hillpeoplegear

and if you are looking for a civil backpack with high build quality also made in europe than my recommendation is in general bach - but the most models are not longer made in ireland like the new-river (but this is a 60-100l pack) but on special request they build your own one of one

my first choice for a lightweight (not ul) up to 40l pack ist the (not longer produced) waterproof ortlieb elevation (32/42) - the last edition from 2018/19 and "best" of all is the elevation pro 2 (in black) the only toploader with a long waterproof side zipper - it was a special request from the öbrd (austria mountain rescue service) the rare red version only for official rescuers

mr
 

moocher

Full Member
Mar 26, 2006
503
42
46
Dorset
Been giving this a lot of thought lately, want a bag for mooch and brew in the woods, I have a maxpedition jumbo versipak, seems to weigh to much, a Eastern European origin Bread type bag the one where you pull the pouch out an can put a water bottle in, seems to small? Looked at the helikon messenger bag don't like idea of the zip being main closure as if it breaks its useless.
Looked at the little Swedish day pack refered to as a hunting pack
So I'm still looking I don't want anything modern military looking,
I'm thinking of doing away with the crusader cookset and getting a smaller one?
And I don't want to spend alot either lol
Desicions and plenty of Web surfing I think.
 

SaraR

Full Member
Mar 25, 2017
564
335
Ceredigion
I got an black surplus daypack (30L?) for local fieldwork and it's been great. Sturdy but not "military looking".

One option to make bags look more civilian is to put a badge or something similar on the front or lid. :)
 

barclay03

Full Member
Jul 14, 2014
42
12
Glasgow
Been giving this a lot of thought lately, want a bag for mooch and brew in the woods, I have a maxpedition jumbo versipak, seems to weigh to much, a Eastern European origin Bread type bag the one where you pull the pouch out an can put a water bottle in, seems to small? Looked at the helikon messenger bag don't like idea of the zip being main closure as if it breaks its useless.
Looked at the little Swedish day pack refered to as a hunting pack
So I'm still looking I don't want anything modern military looking,
I'm thinking of doing away with the crusader cookset and getting a smaller one?
And I don't want to spend alot either lol
Desicions and plenty of Web surfing I think.
Have you considered a drop leg style? I have a maxpedition thermite, and it's perfect for wandering and a brew. Also takes my usual brew kit (titanium cup, with gas cylinder and burner etc stored inside or collapsible stove etc) no problem, with room to spare and some extra pockets for stuff, be amazed what you can get into one lol. Throw a bottle holder on other side of the belt for your water and you're sorted.
 

moocher

Full Member
Mar 26, 2006
503
42
46
Dorset
I hadn't considered a drop leg style, I'm not that keen on carrying things below my belt tbh.
I have just seen online the helikon tex essential kit bag? And even though it is tactical looking I may push the button on that, with possibly the e & e pouch to go on a belt.
 
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MrEd

Full Member
Feb 18, 2010
1,453
395
Surrey/Sussex
www.thetimechamber.co.uk
A bomb proof 35 litres construction is this original German army mountain troop Cordura Nylon rucksack.
Made in Germany bei HEIM.

No zippers, no risk.


This price means the currently still produced new product, but for a used one you have to pay round about 30 €, but slowly they are getting rare on the surplus market.
(They exist on the surplus market in two slightly different cotton versions too, heavier of course, the Cordura version is outstanding light. 850g currently, older versions even 100 g lighter. The cotton versions have round about 1,4 kg.)

That's the rucksack I currently use for my light and compact 3 seasons equipment.

It has exactly 35 litres capacity, I called HEIM and asked the boss. It doesn't have 25 litres how asmc writes wrong in the description.
It can be compressed like that, but it isn't the maximal capacity. 35 litres is correct!

In the side pouches fit (the relatively small) usual Bundeswehr aluminium bottles or civil 750 ml stainless steel bottles with flat closure like clean canteen or 360 Degrees, which I use because they are lighter. With neoprene cover they get a tight fit, but it's OK. I even managed to put the 750ml bottle in its neoprene cover in a 450 ml Robens titanium mug, but I only can get it back, because around all is a well fitting nylon bag which I pull out to get the mug. The mug fits pretty tight in the side pocket. It works but that isn't ideal.
With plastic closure the bottles are to high. You need the insulating steel/ bamboo closure. But than it fits perfectly with neoprene cover in the pouch.

The original German army folding mat, currently available only used but often in good conditions, is meant as a back pillow in this rucksack and sits there in it's own compartment.
Don't buy the bad asian copy of that mat. It doesn't fit properly in the special compartment because it's to thick!

But of course you could put clothing in this compartment instead of the folding mat.
That's nice if you use the rucksack as a pillow.
I had one of these about ten years ago, is a good strong pack and well built, BUT i found it a bit short for my back, and a bit uncomfortable to use for more than a day and it needed attention to laod it. The sleep mat in the back was essential.

indestructible though!
 
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Erbswurst

Native
Mar 5, 2018
1,743
647
Berlin
Yes, I am 185 cm tall and I guess that's the limit.
That's an old pack and wants to be packed in the traditional way.
Before they created that folding mat they put a tent half next to the back or correctly folded clothing.
We successfully lost two world wars with that system.

But the others used pretty similar stuff.
;)
 

MrEd

Full Member
Feb 18, 2010
1,453
395
Surrey/Sussex
www.thetimechamber.co.uk
Yes, I am 185 cm tall and I guess that's the limit.
That's an old pack and wants to be packed in the traditional way.
Before they created that folding mat they put a tent half next to the back or correctly folded clothing.
We successfully lost two world wars with that system.

But the others used pretty similar stuff.
;)
I often find military back packs are to short, I presume because they are designed to be worn over a belt kit?

You and I are the same height so probably have the same issues.

If that bag was about 20cm deeper it would have been absolutely ideal. Nice simple design
 
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Erbswurst

Native
Mar 5, 2018
1,743
647
Berlin
Just carry it in a low position, that works well!

The 65 litres Flecktarn Rucksack is the follower of that model and got a far longer back.


They mainly added a lower compartment ( where the Snugpack SF1 fits for example) and lid pockets and made the whole thing bigger, the sleeping bag they carry on top of the rucksack. The attached straps are very well made for that.
(This Flecktarn 65 litres rucksack existed very rare in the beginning in olive green.)
It weights round about 1400g and costs used round about 40 to 50 € in surplus shops.

But this newer rucksack has a zipper at the lower compartment and one at the usual flap compartment, outside, direction to the man.

It's OK, I use it a lot with light equipment, but rain water theoretically could enter here if I use it in the open field as a pillow with my bivvy bag.
So if possible I use the older HEIM 35 litres model.

And I mainly use the larger one if I carry a tent.
(But than, without real hip belt it comes to its limit of recommend load. Because it's relatively big most people tend to overload that 65 Litres rucksack and than they cry about the construction. If you just throw a winter sleeping bag and a light tent inside it's pretty comfortable, but full with cotton clothing, heavy kitchen and waterbottles it becomes a nightmare.)
 
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Oliver G

Full Member
Sep 15, 2012
202
91
Melbourne, Derbyshire
(But than, without real hip belt it comes to its limit of recommend load. Because it's relatively big most people tend to overload that 65 Litres rucksack and than they cry about the construction. If you just throw a winter sleeping bag and a light tent inside it's pretty comfortable, but full with cotton clothing, heavy kitchen and waterbottles it becomes a nightmare.)
That's where a lot of people fall down with the PLCE bergans, they overload them and they're massively uncomfortable, for camping all you'll want is your sleeping gear, basha and some food. The webbing carries everything else, mind you it's not uncommon for a bergan to weigh 70% of your body weight when loaded for marching with all the modern things we have to carry.
 
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Bishop

Full Member
Jan 25, 2014
1,547
486
Inside the wire, Llanelli
How a bergen is packed also contributes massively and I often wince in quiet horror as nine out ten "How to" videos start with the instructor shoving the closed cell sleep pad inside the pack like a tube then stuffing the sleeping bag et all inside that. What you end up with is a mass the size and shape of a small beer barrel that just loves to roll from side to side across your spine no matter how tight the straps are. Doubly so if like many others desperate to save some weight have ditched the internal back frame.
 
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Suffolkrafter

Tenderfoot
Dec 25, 2019
74
47
39
Suffolk
Well I've circled the internet and then some. Reached the darker, dustier corners of YouTube.
I'm determined to limit myself to 30l or so, for two reasons. Firstly, I once did a multi-day trip to the Pyrenees with a heavily loaded 70l rucksack and suffered greatly while being overtaken by less weighed down (and much fitter) mountaineers. I vowed not to repeat that over-packing mistake. Secondly, I realistically nolonger do multi-day trips anyway, at least for the time being.
In any case, it always comes back to the same quality brands, as stated by posters on this thread. Karrinor SF. Tasmanian Tiger, and a few others. My choices currently are:
Karrinor SF predator 30
Tasmanian tiger modular 30

The Predator 30 looks like an absolute classic and quality pack, plenty of molle on the outside but just a bucket on the inside. Not necessarily a bad thing I suppose.The TT modular 30 a bit more customisable especially on the inside, but a bit heavier. Unfortunately neither have straps on the bottom. There is another that caught my eye:
Wisport zipperfox 25. This is pretty much my dream pack... But 25 is just that bit too small. They do a 40l suppose, but that's a little big....
That's where I'm at. If I eventually get one of these, I'll be sure to do a review.
 

Broch

Full Member
Jan 18, 2009
3,810
2,989
Mid Wales
both are two class under the build quality (seam, molle, buckle, sealed 1000d) of the savotta jaakari m so if the very high price is not a problem you get a "lifetime" backback and its possible to expand the capacity with molly pouch up to over 40l if necessary

mr
You say that because you have tested all three or because you are comparing manufacturers' blurb?

I can vouch for the build quality of the Karrimor SF products - the material they have used for these day packs is purposefully lighter (sealed KS60-RS 600 Denier) than the main 1000D stuff they use for their heavier packs but it is virtually indestructible, the seams are all taped and double stitched, the Molle facilities are as good as anyone needs on a small pack and the straps and buckles are very robust and of the same type that all decent packs use these days. The waist strap isn't a full hip loading strap - it has padded hip points but a standard strap - but then I don't use a 30-40L bag for long multi-day trips anyway. I confess, apart from the statement from Suffolkrafter about compartmentalisation, I can't see a lot to choose between them - other than:

TT modular 30 - £199
Jaakari M - £180
K SF Predator - £88

Don't get me wrong, I am quite happy for you to say things like "I much prefer the Jaakari M because it has this, does that and in my experience it is better because of X" - but to just come out with a statement that two perfectly good day packs are "two classes below" sounds like purchase justification IMO.

Rant over, I'm suffering from hayfever today a bit on edge :)
 
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Suffolkrafter

Tenderfoot
Dec 25, 2019
74
47
39
Suffolk
I can't see a lot to choose between them -
Yep, hence my endless and futile circling of the internet. For my purposes I suspect they are all of sufficient quality. Hell, I have an old 45l pathfinder pack that has lasted me 10 years with barely a scratch. These will all be fine I think.

The Savotta Jaakari M is pretty much on my list too, thanks for the suggestion marcoruhland. I had read reports that it was perhaps not as comfortable in terms of carrying heavy loads as other packs. Would anyone agree with this, or disagree?