Sustainable living-Off the grid

[cariboo]

We live isolated in the boreal forest, off the grid, no phone. Going on 13 years now.
It's about freedom.

My decadence is this satellite connection.

For us spending as little money as possible is just as important as any other aspect to living sustainably right from the beginning.

Henry David Thoreau I think would find Les Stroud amusing... Maybe even a charlatan but then again Henry lived with his mother all his life.

Scott.
Reflections on living sustainably
http://www.caribooblades.com

 

[Husky]

On sustainable living versus "there are 6 billion of us".
I can´t find this graf on WWF:s english website so you will have to accept the swedish headline but under the topic of ecological footprint I find this disturbing image.

The "human development index" is some UN- definition of minimum acceptable development as related to childsurvival and such.
The way I read the graf is that for every person in the world to have the absolute minimum acceptable developmentlevel (anything less is third world missery) we need to consume more than our share of the worlds resources.
Even if we all live sustainably there are simply too many of us.
The country that just barely makes it into the sustainable quadrant is... Cuba.

 

[rik_uk3]

Off grid for £395k

http://www.propertysalewales.co.uk/property.cfm?i=2319

 

[Cobweb]

Lovely film, something to aspire to in any case, I wonder how much it cost in total?

 

[hammock monkey]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, what we need is a good plague!

 

[Kerne]

Off grid for £395k

In the UK, this is one of the main problems - land is far too expensive for the vast majority and thus a sustainable lifestyle on your own land is a luxury - I'd love an "eco-home', but I will never be able to afford one. Unless, of course, I did some high-powered, exploitative job (city banker/hedge fund seller/stockbroker?) so that I can afford the green alternative and then proceed, no doubt, to pontificate to others about their lifestyle. As for overpopulation - who is on your list for culling? (city bankers/hedge fund sellers/stockbrokers? )

I know that it seems a lily-livered, watered down alternative to "true" off-gridding, but I think you just have to do what you can. Cultivate one's own garden (in the literal sense rather than Voltaire's metaphor); make sustainable choices as far as is possible; respect the choices others have made.

 

[British Red]

I know that it seems a lily-livered, watered down alternative to "true" off-gridding, but I think you just have to do what you can. Cultivate one's own garden (in the literal sense rather than Voltaire's metaphor); make sustainable choices as far as is possible; respect the choices others have made.

Absolutely nothing "lily livered" about living like that - provided that you aren't under any illusion that it will make any long term difference. Even if we ignore the "6 billion" statistic and just look at Britain, its inevitable that, without fossil fuels, the population cannot survive. Its simply impossible to live, grow food, work, produce energy, grow wood for heat, harvest rainwater etc. on three quarters of an acre per person. Some of which is marsh or moor. That assumes that no space at all is needed for hospitals, schools etc.
We couldn't do it now with intensive fertilisers (produced from fossil fuels). So we have to import food (using fossil fuels) in plastic containers (made from fossil fuels) distributed on lorries and....well you get the idea.

No amount of "Green wash" makes the population of this country sustainable without massive importation and heavy use of hydrocarbons - even living far more simply.

So if woodburners, solar panels and growing your own veg are you thing (they certainly are mine) - have great fun with them. Nothing wrong with a hobby - it just isn't a solution to the exhaustion of fossil fuels (so we should acknowledge we need to keep using fossil fuels until they run out) and as such should not be mandated for others. These things are not a cure, or even a treatment - they are a placebo

Red

 

[Mikkel]

I do not agree. Fossil fuels are being phased out almost everywhere in the western world. Denmark for example, will have a 50% of our energy consumption from renewable energy within 10-20 years. In the meantime, the goal are very likely to be set even higher. By reducing the use of fossil fuels, the reserves are being extended. And most likely, we will reduce our consumption of it to such a degree that it will last practically forever.

In that process, the individual effort is vital to archieve this goal. We had a drinking water crisis many years ago here in Denmark, where it was forseen that we would run out of it in the future, if we did not reduce the consumption. By many different ways, we archieved this goal. And unless the industrial farming will do any long term damage (which it doesnt look like currently), we have our drinking water supplies secured for the next many 100s of years to come.

That we are consuming rescources like we are today is because of the way of thinking of old. To think about sustainability, especially at government level, is a very recent thing. It takes a long period to change something as fundemental as that. But I'm sure it will come.

Population control is of course also something that should be adressed. But it's even more controversal than reduction in rescourse consumption.
The population size is not a problem as such, the way we use rescourses are. If everyone lived like an average african village (one that isn't dependant on NGO support of course), we would be able to support even more persons that what we do now. But if we spent like the USA, the world wouldn't even be able to support half of the current population.

 

[British Red]

Hmm I disagree completely - but this isn't the place for a debate on ecology or future plans. Sadly I cannot rationalise that an ever increasing population can be sustained by diminishing resources on finite land. Its statistically and logically ludicrous. Happy to take it to PM but I guess it has little or nothing to do with Bushcraft

Red

 

[rik_uk3]

Sad to say that with our population expected to hit 80 Million within 20 years, windmills and other 'green' energy sources just won't be enough. Its about time we all faced up to the fact that we need to start building more Nuclear power stations Not a popular view, but its what we will have to do if you want to be able to flick a switch and have light in a few years time.

 

[Mikkel]

Many western countries have only slightly increased their energy consumption during the last 5-10 years, germany have even reduced it. And the efforts to reduce this have only been increased since then. The EU for example, have ruled that traditional light bulbs are not allowed from 2012.

edit> I'm sorry for going partly ot. but I belive that sustainable living is also an important part of this subject.

 

[Husky]

As we seem to be heading off topic I took the liberty of starting this thread:
"Sustainable living - OT from "off the grid"
so we can continue the discussion but keep this thread on topic.

 

[durulz]

...but its a way of life for me...no Internet...

So how do you look at this website and post messages then?