Survival tin --- what should a good one contain?
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Hi
This may have been done to death, but it's still a valid question, and I'd always be supportive of someone who is carrying something to help them if they get into difficulty whilst "out there" rather than the "I carry a credit card and a mobile phone because you are always near help" brigade...
So - Genuine question deserves a genuine answer - I'd go for a BCB kit, as the components are generally good quality, and then open it and get rid of the tea light candle (and replace with a smaller, long candle, or one you have shaved square), and possibly see what else you can fit in there (scalpel / single side razor blade, cotton wool balls soaked in vaseline, small photon type torch/soletaire mag light etc etc), and then re-seal it...and always carry it!!!
This may have been done to death, but it's still a valid question, and I'd always be supportive of someone who is carrying something to help them if they get into difficulty whilst "out there" rather than the "I carry a credit card and a mobile phone because you are always near help" brigade...
So - Genuine question deserves a genuine answer - I'd go for a BCB kit, as the components are generally good quality, and then open it and get rid of the tea light candle (and replace with a smaller, long candle, or one you have shaved square), and possibly see what else you can fit in there (scalpel / single side razor blade, cotton wool balls soaked in vaseline, small photon type torch/soletaire mag light etc etc), and then re-seal it...and always carry it!!!
the tru ways survival school one seems to be ok, however the adage "the more you know the less you need to carry" is very true. Make your kit up so it works with your current skill level.
There are more than a few members on this forum who i could see surving quite happily with just a knife and piece of flint, i know roughly what they would do but do not have the experience to do it, so thats why my survival kit has enough gear (junk) in it to make me realise that knowledge and experience are the main components of any kit.
enjoy the forum, use the search tool but it is always good raking the coals once in a while to see how a fire may burn differently
There are more than a few members on this forum who i could see surving quite happily with just a knife and piece of flint, i know roughly what they would do but do not have the experience to do it, so thats why my survival kit has enough gear (junk) in it to make me realise that knowledge and experience are the main components of any kit.
enjoy the forum, use the search tool but it is always good raking the coals once in a while to see how a fire may burn differently
You know what? If no-one talks about things that haven't been talked about before on this site, then Tony might as well lock it down and make it "read only". There are only a few dozen topics central to bushcraft and they have all been talked about.
So what?
If we wanted a static website, thats what we would have.
BJ001. Do NOT buy a tin. Why? because you need to select all the components and know what they do, why they are there and how to use them.
A tin is also an incovenient way to carry your kit. It should be stuff so usefult hat something comes out every time you set foot in the woods - a plaster, a lighter, some cord, a compass, some tinder etc.
Lots of folks here call them a "possibles pouch". Its not something that is "as well as" your normal kit. It IS your normal kit. Stuff you use all the time and know how to use. When you are cold, lost and knackered you will how have half a chance of making it work. If its a sealed tin and you open it wondering "what's this for?" you are totally fubar.
The cheap c**p in tins is often pointless. Mors Kochanski reckons a knife, a steel pot, a down jacket and a ferro rod are all he needs in his kit. Good, solid material he knows how to use - no gimmicks.
If you can imagine a gimmick - I bought it. Forget it. My survival kit is in my pockets and my pouch. But if you want to play, we can work you out everything form a button compass onwards so you can get it out of your system. BUT you have to work out what you want....and explain what you will use it for....then we will see if we can talk you out of it...if you win the argument, I'll dig through my boxes and if I have one, its yours (free).
BUT you have to listen to the advice on here (and buy your own sharps)
Deal?
Red
So what?
If we wanted a static website, thats what we would have.
BJ001. Do NOT buy a tin. Why? because you need to select all the components and know what they do, why they are there and how to use them.
A tin is also an incovenient way to carry your kit. It should be stuff so usefult hat something comes out every time you set foot in the woods - a plaster, a lighter, some cord, a compass, some tinder etc.
Lots of folks here call them a "possibles pouch". Its not something that is "as well as" your normal kit. It IS your normal kit. Stuff you use all the time and know how to use. When you are cold, lost and knackered you will how have half a chance of making it work. If its a sealed tin and you open it wondering "what's this for?" you are totally fubar.
The cheap c**p in tins is often pointless. Mors Kochanski reckons a knife, a steel pot, a down jacket and a ferro rod are all he needs in his kit. Good, solid material he knows how to use - no gimmicks.
If you can imagine a gimmick - I bought it. Forget it. My survival kit is in my pockets and my pouch. But if you want to play, we can work you out everything form a button compass onwards so you can get it out of your system. BUT you have to work out what you want....and explain what you will use it for....then we will see if we can talk you out of it...if you win the argument, I'll dig through my boxes and if I have one, its yours (free).
BUT you have to listen to the advice on here (and buy your own sharps)
Deal?
Red
come on guys, why the nastiness. Cant we just answer the fellas questions and politely point him in the right direction. This is not a good advert for new members to this forum.
I do carry small survival kits, the AMK/Doug Ritter kit and find it to be the best pre-made kit for a reasonable price with the package included caution that you will need to add shelter and water gear. For me, it's the best pre-made kit because it has full size gear and not toys meant to do everything and nothing at the same time.
And there is my thoughts on survival kits: I am not a robot repeating "The more you know, the less you carry" yarn in answer to any and every question about what gear to carry. I believe that it is better to carry functionally full gear rather than miniature toys.
There is nothing advanced about fish hooks, string, knife, pot. Some things like a fire steel rather than a mag block, or a Zip-lock rather than a condom, wax earplugs rather than cotton balls/jelly are some things that I have found to work better for me than the usual suggestions on the internet.
Watch your weight, but carry full functional sized gear; and assemble kit based on your skill level is an excellent idea.
And there is my thoughts on survival kits: I am not a robot repeating "The more you know, the less you carry" yarn in answer to any and every question about what gear to carry. I believe that it is better to carry functionally full gear rather than miniature toys.
There is nothing advanced about fish hooks, string, knife, pot. Some things like a fire steel rather than a mag block, or a Zip-lock rather than a condom, wax earplugs rather than cotton balls/jelly are some things that I have found to work better for me than the usual suggestions on the internet.
Watch your weight, but carry full functional sized gear; and assemble kit based on your skill level is an excellent idea.
as usual RED has hit the nail well and truly on the head, if you don't know what equipment does you can't use it simple as that!!
Have a good xmas,
hope you get lots of Bushcraft prezzies to play with!!
Have a good xmas,
hope you get lots of Bushcraft prezzies to play with!!
I've merged the two survival kit threads. Maybe that will help some to play better with others.
Hi
This may have been done to death, but it's still a valid question, and I'd always be supportive of someone who is carrying something to help them if they get into difficulty whilst "out there" rather than the "I carry a credit card and a mobile phone because you are always near help" brigade...
So - Genuine question deserves a genuine answer - I'd go for a BCB kit, as the components are generally good quality, and then open it and get rid of the tea light candle (and replace with a smaller, long candle, or one you have shaved square), and possibly see what else you can fit in there (scalpel / single side razor blade, cotton wool balls soaked in vaseline, small photon type torch/soletaire mag light etc etc), and then re-seal it...and always carry it!!!
In the UK a mobile phone is a survival aid without doubt, yes there are dead spots for signals, but more often than not you can get through.
British Red and I are on the same wavelength here, you don't need a little tin, you should already have the kit on you when you are out and about. When I spoke to Mors Kochanski in 2006 he seemed 'surprised' at the amount of kit we carried here in the UK and the money we spent on it, why? OK if your a kit 'hound' I'm a stove 'hound' I just collect them, don't need them, but collect them, so if you want a dinky survival tin buy a few
But ask yourself the question, what is in the tin that will do a better job than what you have with you out in the woods (or hills)? Forget the fishing lines, don't need them to 'survive' in the UK, button compass? don't you have a compass on you if needed? Wire saw? they are crap, don't last two minutes, most of the kit in these tins is just tat, rubbish you don't really need.If your off to the Arctic, or Jungle/dessert ect its a different ball game and well out of my sphere of experience, but I'm pretty sure you would need more than a small tin or pouch to carry the gear you needed to survive.
Bush, you've not ruined my Christmas, I've had a wonderful day and welcome to the forum, but, and there is always a but, don't rush it; don't feel you need to buy this or that bit of kit just take your time.
B
Bush Junior 001
Guest
Thanks for all the info lads, Excellent, hopefully I will make a contribution the other way one day cheers everyone
Hello again every one!!
Not long back from commitments abroad and delighted to see that debate and information is still flowing freely on this, my most favorite site on the web!
BJ001 - great first post! Hopefully you gained a bit of knowledge from some of the crowd - and don't mind Rik's "bah humbug" post - some people vent their spleens on here from time to time, including me! which can be a lot of fun and the Mods do a great job in keeping it all pretty civilised. Rik, by the way, is one of the foremost stove experts on here and is extremely generous in imparting his knowledge and experience.
In answer to your question, I would echo Red's advice - a "survival tin" implies fish hooks, button compass' etc etc. If your in a survival situation in this country (some parts of the Highlands, in winter, excepted) then something has gone badly wrong. Much better to think of practicalities and "what if" situations instead - and what should always be on your person.
For example: You're lucky enough to be out in some pristine British woodland, you rest on a log for a while, drop your pack and then decide to wander (for a pee, to check out a patch of fungi you thought you saw a while back?). All of a sudden, one tree looks just like any other and you've no idea where you dropped your pack (with all of it's expensive toys) - how do you get back to it?
A simple thing like a pocket kagool can save you from a lot of discomfort when hiking any British high country - where the weather can turn on a sixpence, regardless of season.
If you're heading to the jungle or the desert then do drop me a PM as I have reasonable experience of both (I have limited Arctic experience - but I know a man who has lots!).
My final piece of advice echos Rik's. The foremost survival tool in the UK (and a surprising number of, so called, third world countries) - is the mobile phone - fully charged and with a spare battery (depending on length of stay) - it can summon up a shockingly expensive array of assets to dig you out of the mire should you find yourself at the bottom of a steep valley with a broken hip!
Enjoy the site and we look forward to learning from your experiences.
Fin
Not long back from commitments abroad and delighted to see that debate and information is still flowing freely on this, my most favorite site on the web!
BJ001 - great first post! Hopefully you gained a bit of knowledge from some of the crowd - and don't mind Rik's "bah humbug" post - some people vent their spleens on here from time to time, including me! which can be a lot of fun and the Mods do a great job in keeping it all pretty civilised. Rik, by the way, is one of the foremost stove experts on here and is extremely generous in imparting his knowledge and experience.
In answer to your question, I would echo Red's advice - a "survival tin" implies fish hooks, button compass' etc etc. If your in a survival situation in this country (some parts of the Highlands, in winter, excepted) then something has gone badly wrong. Much better to think of practicalities and "what if" situations instead - and what should always be on your person.
For example: You're lucky enough to be out in some pristine British woodland, you rest on a log for a while, drop your pack and then decide to wander (for a pee, to check out a patch of fungi you thought you saw a while back?). All of a sudden, one tree looks just like any other and you've no idea where you dropped your pack (with all of it's expensive toys) - how do you get back to it?
A simple thing like a pocket kagool can save you from a lot of discomfort when hiking any British high country - where the weather can turn on a sixpence, regardless of season.
If you're heading to the jungle or the desert then do drop me a PM as I have reasonable experience of both (I have limited Arctic experience - but I know a man who has lots!).
My final piece of advice echos Rik's. The foremost survival tool in the UK (and a surprising number of, so called, third world countries) - is the mobile phone - fully charged and with a spare battery (depending on length of stay) - it can summon up a shockingly expensive array of assets to dig you out of the mire should you find yourself at the bottom of a steep valley with a broken hip!
Enjoy the site and we look forward to learning from your experiences.
Fin
Thank you Fin for the kind words. I've been thinking about what I usually have on me when camping, carried in pockets or on my belt
Mobile phone
Zippo/Bic lighter (sad to say I'm still smoking)
K&M match case on belt, built in Suunto compass
Leatherman on belt with clip on button torch
Ziplock bag with a pair of Nitrile gloves, a couple of plasters, small pack of gauze and a couple of alcohol wipes (pukka kit in main bag) in back pocket
Sometimes a Mora knife with mag steel via a neck band
Sometimes a Laplander
Cash and card
Don't laugh, but I also have a little MP3 player with radio so I can get my Radio 4 news
So I guess I could light a fire, call for help, and chill out to some fine sounds while waiting for rescue
Nout wrong with these tins, but relying on them is my big gripe. The old Jewish joke about Chicken soup given to a sick person springs to mind, "Will it heal him"? "Not really, but it won't do any harm either"
Mobile phone
Zippo/Bic lighter (sad to say I'm still smoking)
K&M match case on belt, built in Suunto compass
Leatherman on belt with clip on button torch
Ziplock bag with a pair of Nitrile gloves, a couple of plasters, small pack of gauze and a couple of alcohol wipes (pukka kit in main bag) in back pocket
Sometimes a Mora knife with mag steel via a neck band
Sometimes a Laplander
Cash and card
Don't laugh, but I also have a little MP3 player with radio so I can get my Radio 4 news
So I guess I could light a fire, call for help, and chill out to some fine sounds while waiting for rescue
Nout wrong with these tins, but relying on them is my big gripe. The old Jewish joke about Chicken soup given to a sick person springs to mind, "Will it heal him"? "Not really, but it won't do any harm either"
B
Bush Junior 001
Guest
Thanks again for the help everyone, even the Bah hum bug forced me to learn to use the search properly and I have been trawling through many posts which have relation to survival tins/kits etc. I do however seem to get drawn away when there is a link to something and spend up to an hour sometimes on another subject or thread. It is amazing the amount of information, I have been on it just now for a good few hours.
Many Thanks
BJ
Many Thanks
BJ
My group of friends call 'Survival Tins', 'Discovery Boxes'. Full of useless/useful stuff that begs hundreds of questions and lessons!
Why have they put an orange emergency whistle in here (signalling, visibility, hunting)? Why are there cotton balls in here (fire, heat, alternative tinders)? Why is their a brass wire in the tin (rabbit snares.. hunting.. food..) and what are this pills (duh, water purification techniques!)
Dont knock the usefulness of a survival tin to a curious newbie
bigmoose
Why have they put an orange emergency whistle in here (signalling, visibility, hunting)? Why are there cotton balls in here (fire, heat, alternative tinders)? Why is their a brass wire in the tin (rabbit snares.. hunting.. food..) and what are this pills (duh, water purification techniques!)
Dont knock the usefulness of a survival tin to a curious newbie
bigmoose
I think it's to do with a sense of preparedness really.
That said, I don't possess a 'survival tin'. (But then I do have a handbag )
I think also it's about potential. All those little gadgets get busy minds working. Humankind loves gadgets, tools, usefuls, and these little tins posseess a plethora of them
The topic comes around every so often, folks discuss the tins and their must have lists, argue over the rights and wrongs of it all; and the world turns on.
I'm sure that somewhere out there survival tins and their myriad contents are actually used as they were intended, tbh I reckon that well filled pockets and handbags are likely to be more use, but if the actions and thought that goes into preparing the tins and their contents help folk to learn, to actively be aware of what emergency might need those items, surely that's no bad thing.
cheers,
Toddy
p.s. there usually is a laplander in 'my' handbag, but most folks would consider that an uncommon addition even to the clutter of most women's bags
That said, I don't possess a 'survival tin'. (But then I do have a handbag
)I think also it's about potential. All those little gadgets get busy minds working. Humankind loves gadgets, tools, usefuls, and these little tins posseess a plethora of them
The topic comes around every so often, folks discuss the tins and their must have lists, argue over the rights and wrongs of it all; and the world turns on.
I'm sure that somewhere out there survival tins and their myriad contents are actually used as they were intended, tbh I reckon that well filled pockets and handbags are likely to be more use, but if the actions and thought that goes into preparing the tins and their contents help folk to learn, to actively be aware of what emergency might need those items, surely that's no bad thing.
cheers,
Toddy
p.s. there usually is a laplander in 'my' handbag, but most folks would consider that an uncommon addition even to the clutter of most women's bags
actually, not to rattle the cage here but that is illegal to carry without a good reason in the eyes of the law as a laplander is a bladed cutting tool that is over 3 inches and locks.
Keeping it in your bag generally or ust in case is a potentially court-worthy activity and not the message to be putting out.
Keeping it in your bag generally or ust in case is a potentially court-worthy activity and not the message to be putting out.
I think the spirit of the law is in reference to knife blades, rather than saw blades. I cant see a magistrate convicting someone for carrying a folding saw to be honest. I wouldn't worry about it.
Certainly is, especially since my 'handbag' is the one I use when foraging.
And 'scuse me, but since when is it illegal to be carryiing a tool for it's intended purpose ??
cheers,
Toddy
And 'scuse me, but since when is it illegal to be carryiing a tool for it's intended purpose ??
cheers,
Toddy
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