Sugar

[archiet]

Hiya,

I've just made some Elderflower Champagne (from the Roger Phillips book) and as I was looking through the ingredients are wondered if it was at all possible to make this from totally wild (or at least locally grown) products.

In particular how do you make sugar in the uk? Would you just use sap from a silver birch maybe? Would this interact in the same way (ie breakdown into alcohol).

Also, in his recipe he adds lemon rinds. could you substitute lemon balm or is there some interaction that occurs with the acids in the citrus?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

 

[Toddy]

Modern elderflower champagne is made to be appealing to palates that have become used to accepting grape wine as being normal/ good.
There are no real substitutes for sugar in the UK apart from honey. The problem is that the first honey is usually in demand at the same time the elderflowers are in bloom.
However, it is possible to use the sweetness from grains too to make the elderflowers into a kind of ale.
Elderflower champagne becomes mead or ale if done utterly from resources naturally available in the UK. Both are very good, the ale reminded me of a perfumed, light and fizzy barley water, and mead is always good stuff

Any other recipes available? and I'm sure someone has tried it using sugar beet. I know it's a commercially produced plant but it does grow well here.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[HuBBa]

Ok. if i remember this right .. (if not, correct me please

Alcohol is made from the Glucose molecule, which is found in plants (not fruits). So grains and such will work fine for this (not sure what the primary ingredient in birch sap is though if its glucose or fructose.

Fructose, ie. fruit sugar, is not as easy (if at all possible) to make into alcohol oh and honey is made out of primarely Fructose, not Glucose (as one could think).

So as long as you use starch rich plants (wheat, rice, potato) etc. for producing the alcohol it should work fine.

Hope i got that right

 

[Ketchup]

Fructose, ie. fruit sugar, is not as easy (if at all possible) to make into alcohol oh and honey is made out of primarely Fructose, not Glucose (as one could think). ...
Hope i got that right

Alcoholic fermentation can be succesfully done from any single sugars s.a. glucose (grape sugar) and fructose (from flowers: honey), and also from double sugars like sucrose (beet and cane) an maltose.

But not from higher polysacharids, such as starch, which is potentially the best potential source for sugars around (tubers, grains, roots...) To turn starch into fructose, you have to cut it up with an enzyme: amylase, present in malted barley or... saliva.

If you want to have sugar for extra alcohol, chew some potato for ten minutes, and spit it into your mixture to be fermented. (that's how the amerindians still do it today...)

 

[RAPPLEBY2000]

nice!

i'm sure i saw a documentary recently with an old lady doing doing the same!

lets hope they brushed their teeth first!

wether you'd ever collect enough is unlikely, but many flowers have alot of nectar, a good example is the dead nettle, at school play time we used to pick the white flowers and suck the sweet nectar!

ooop's stupid comment alert!

prehaps if vast quantities of such a flower if collected the nectar it could be processed?

saying that, you could just wait for bees to do it for you! :11doh: :yelrotflm

damn what was i thinking

 

[ilan]

The other problems are you will need an acid to give the wine a "Bite " and a good strain of yeast wild yeasts tend to produce off flavours and a poor keeping wine . Another dodge with elderflowers is to make an infusion and freeze it. use it later in the year . Try it with young vine leaves and a few Green gooseberys You will still need sugar tho . Honey has a distintive taste all of its own and it can taste a bit medicinal when fermented , over the years it hase been fermented with apples {cyser)and various other fruits . Used to make a reasonable amount of home brew a few years ago, trouble is once you add up the cost of the ingredients its almost as cheap to buy .

 

[archiet]

thanks for all the comments.

 

[locum76]

similarly - i made elderflower cordial recently which requires lemons... since lemons aren't readily available in the uk, does anyone know of a good tangy substitute?

 

[stuart f]

similarly - i made elderflower cordial recently which requires lemons... since lemons aren't readily available in the uk, does anyone know of a good tangy substitute?

What about using Lemon balm?.

 

[Ketchup]

similarly - i made elderflower cordial recently which requires lemons... since lemons aren't readily available in the uk, does anyone know of a good tangy substitute?

This is beyond what I remember of biochemistry, but I think the lemon is in there for something more than just tangy taste. I suppose the citric acid plays a role in preventing the sugar to crystalize in the cordal (just like it stops ice cristals in sorbets). Same with its role in wine making. Anyone knows for sure ?

Is there a native source for citric acid? Rhubarb? (not native either, but more readily available in the garden). Is oxalic acid a substitute? Formic acid? (squeezed red ants)