@Andy - The Vango Ultralight has an open cell foam lining which is "diamond cut" wgich I believe means it has holes cut in the foam to make it lighter. Vamgo do not give an R rating. TGO review indicates lack of trust for winter use. Personally I wouldn't use any pad which has gaps in the coverage for winter use. Personally, I wouldn't use a failure probable inflatable for critical use.If you are up a mountain, 10-15 miles from the trail head on a moonless night is a snow storm, you are not going anywhere and need to be very sure of your equipment. 2 12 mm CCF pads are a pain to pack, but weigh little (and cost little) and cannot fail(unless you let it blow away in the wind), If you're just a couple of miles from your car on fairly level ground, then all you risk is some discomfort while you hike out when it goes pear shaped. So failure prone equipment is not such a big risk. However, I would rather have one set of kit whcih suits the worst case and is no disadvantage in the milder situation.
Sleeping Bag Ratings vs Real Experience ?
- Thread starter Hypnagog
- Start date
Agree - the solid insulated pads won't let you down like an inflatable might! My Exped Comfort 10 is possibly a half-way house - it is inflatable for super comfort, (and doesn't bottom out even with my considerable mass when side-sleeping) but even if punctured the foam filling will still provide some insulation. THe down pads will probably give less if punctured, as down crushes much more easily, and those pads depend on the air for the down "loft".
I'm not camping out this weekend but if I was I'd be using a snugpack softie 9 with a full length thermarest trail lite underneath it and (probably) an alpkit hunka bivvy bag. I usually sleep in cheap polycotton "thermals" (from asda). I'm about 5'11", and on the skinny side of average. I'd have a hot drink and a bit of chocolate or similar before bed, and maybe leap around a little if I was feeling chilly. I'd expect to be "spot on" for temperature but if it dropped cold in the night I'd happily light the stove and make another hot drink and a hot water bottle and curl up for a little longer.
No idea if that's helpful or not, I hope it is
Cheers,
Stuart.
No idea if that's helpful or not, I hope it is
Cheers,
Stuart.
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hi...its all a bit above me too and i've learned a bit from the thread thanks....but heres what i do...two set-ups....couple of examples....
1...b/army large bivi with b/army large jungle bag and b/army cotton liner with b/army roll mat. has served me very well all over the country in most conditions including soggy and chilly 4 nights at w.g. 2 years ago for example. have had chilly toes a coupla times but it packs down small enough to fit in a b/army day bag along with everything!!! else you need. and....i always take a 'sleep kit' with me...again light and goes down small...consists of helly hanson base layer....long sleeve cotton turtleneck, craghoppers fleece, thinsulate beanie and one of those neck snoody thingys. this is the set-up i use the most.
2...b/army large bivi with b/army large arctic bag and b/army 58 pattern wool liner with b/army roll mat. you not only get to melting point by having to carry this beast but the chances are you'll be needing to unzip it during the night....especially if i've decided to put my sleep kit on....usually the beanie comes off, as does the fleece and often the long sleeve too. GORGEOUS nights sleep. this has served me 100%!!!!!!!!! perfectly in -6 in sodden conditions at the foot of helvellyn for 5 days as well as 9 drenched days on bodmin. i've never yet had so much as a single drop of water enter my space or even neared the very idea of even getting an inkling or suspicion of becoming even slightly cold. but the bag alone weighs over 2 kilos and if you were to squash it into your day bag you'd not get much more than a firesteel squeezed into the main compartment with it. obviously youd use this on an appropriate trip and it will then warrant my b/army shortback bergen in which it will go and also allow you to carry everything!!! you need too....as long as youre a shire horse.
i had bushwacker bob here today and i am very much in agreement with going light. i think its the essence....get as near to basics as poss. it also teaches good habits and mentality.
i'd rather have cold toes and go with option 1 and also be self sufficient....and as the guys said....i always have a hot choc at bedtime and you can always put on 2 pairs of socks. and i only ever camp at sites that allow proper fires...on moral grounds. even if you cant feel the heat from the embers physically....just being able to see the glow and hear the crackles is spiritually warming.
when i go camping i like to ''feel it''.....i dont ever really want to be totally comfortable.
be of the ray....not of the bear.
e-z!
s
ps....i always!!! bivi on the ground....and under a marines tarp. oh!....and under my roll mat on the ground i have a small but good quality one of those blue plastic groundsheets that acts as a nice footprint and an extra waterproofish layer.
pps and ditto on the 'only wear ya base etc at night....true on the bodydirt/efficiency loss thing.
1...b/army large bivi with b/army large jungle bag and b/army cotton liner with b/army roll mat. has served me very well all over the country in most conditions including soggy and chilly 4 nights at w.g. 2 years ago for example. have had chilly toes a coupla times but it packs down small enough to fit in a b/army day bag along with everything!!! else you need. and....i always take a 'sleep kit' with me...again light and goes down small...consists of helly hanson base layer....long sleeve cotton turtleneck, craghoppers fleece, thinsulate beanie and one of those neck snoody thingys. this is the set-up i use the most.
2...b/army large bivi with b/army large arctic bag and b/army 58 pattern wool liner with b/army roll mat. you not only get to melting point by having to carry this beast but the chances are you'll be needing to unzip it during the night....especially if i've decided to put my sleep kit on....usually the beanie comes off, as does the fleece and often the long sleeve too. GORGEOUS nights sleep. this has served me 100%!!!!!!!!! perfectly in -6 in sodden conditions at the foot of helvellyn for 5 days as well as 9 drenched days on bodmin. i've never yet had so much as a single drop of water enter my space or even neared the very idea of even getting an inkling or suspicion of becoming even slightly cold. but the bag alone weighs over 2 kilos and if you were to squash it into your day bag you'd not get much more than a firesteel squeezed into the main compartment with it. obviously youd use this on an appropriate trip and it will then warrant my b/army shortback bergen in which it will go and also allow you to carry everything!!! you need too....as long as youre a shire horse.
i had bushwacker bob here today and i am very much in agreement with going light. i think its the essence....get as near to basics as poss. it also teaches good habits and mentality.
i'd rather have cold toes and go with option 1 and also be self sufficient....and as the guys said....i always have a hot choc at bedtime and you can always put on 2 pairs of socks. and i only ever camp at sites that allow proper fires...on moral grounds. even if you cant feel the heat from the embers physically....just being able to see the glow and hear the crackles is spiritually warming.
when i go camping i like to ''feel it''.....i dont ever really want to be totally comfortable.
be of the ray....not of the bear.
e-z!
s
ps....i always!!! bivi on the ground....and under a marines tarp. oh!....and under my roll mat on the ground i have a small but good quality one of those blue plastic groundsheets that acts as a nice footprint and an extra waterproofish layer.
pps and ditto on the 'only wear ya base etc at night....true on the bodydirt/efficiency loss thing.
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Thanks. I have a stainless-steel water bottle, that should serve as a decent bed-warmer. It acted like a little radiator when I was out last winter plus I knew that I had some water to drink in the night if I needed it.
+1 to that.
Once when hammocking I used a windscreen reflector as an insulator beneath my sleeping bag. It worked well, but lots of condensation in the morning. I suspect that it would just conduct heat away from me when ground dwelling.
Okay, so I'm looking at an uprated sleeping mat with something in addition to air in it, that makes a lot of sense - hopefully at a similar pack-size. Still torn between Softie 9 Hawk and Elite 5. Probably will go with the Elite 5 as I like the expander panel.
I guess that's what it boils down to.
All being well (hypothermia aside) I'll post a trip report soon.
It should work just fine on the ground too. I use one of these when the temp heads toward zero...http://www.amazon.co.uk/Single-Thermal-Foil-Backed-Camping/dp/B001U1K2HY/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1384126483&sr=8-4&keywords=highlander+mat
It works well. I've had slight condensation once probably because I didn't need it.
In Europe sleeping bags should be tested by a uniform European standard - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_13537
It is based on a lab test, and means that in theory at least, all sleeping bag ratings are comparable.
Alas it is not mandatory, and so some manufacturers may not use it.
J
It is based on a lab test, and means that in theory at least, all sleeping bag ratings are comparable.
Alas it is not mandatory, and so some manufacturers may not use it.
J
Hee Hee - you should hear Wiggy go on about these (and the US equivalent CLO) lab test results! http://wiggys.com/legacy/apr13.cfm
ps his temps are in F, not C, so that a 0 bag is -32C.
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Thanks everyone.
I finally took the plunge and went for the Thermorest NeoAir XTherm.
I was surprised how well it packs down, and how thick it inflates to.
I took it out over the weekend http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115239&
I put it on top of a reflective windscreen shield and it was the warmest I've ever slept, infact combined with the Snugpak Elite 5, in only 0.9ºC I was far too warm and left the bag unzipped.
I'm really confident with this combination now, thanks again.
I finally took the plunge and went for the Thermorest NeoAir XTherm.
I was surprised how well it packs down, and how thick it inflates to.
I took it out over the weekend http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115239&
I put it on top of a reflective windscreen shield and it was the warmest I've ever slept, infact combined with the Snugpak Elite 5, in only 0.9ºC I was far too warm and left the bag unzipped.
I'm really confident with this combination now, thanks again.
I now use this too and its supremely warm. very clever system and half the weight of my expeds but equally warm. will be using it this weekend for a summit bivvy and i know ill be toasty
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