Sharpening, a beginners woes

[Karl5]

I got a set of japanese waterstones (800, 1200 and 6000) for christmas from my (much) better half, but I haven't had a chance to try them out until now.
I was never any good at sharpening, so I took good care reading all the tips and tricks I could on the net before I got started (including using the search function here and at BB).

Result: One small nick in my hand (from stabbing myself) and one small area where I wore out the skin on my finger from dragging it on the stones.
The knife itself (a mora)...?? Well, the original "wavyness" on the bevel is gone, but that's about it. The knife is now actually less sharp than when I started.
I'm giving up for today, but I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
First of all, I don't seem to be able to get that all important burr along the edge. I've tried pushing harder, softer, with more water, with less water... Nothing seems to help.
Secondly, I can always see shiny bits on the edge, indicating dull spots, disregarding what I've done. I guess that's a sign of the missing burr as well??
Thirdly, even on the 6000 stone, the bevel doesn't get a polished surface. Or is this something I shouldn't expect anyway?

All in all, this is very frustrating, so I'm now asking for ideas and tips on what I could do differently.
I'd be grateful for any and all ideas.

/ Karl

 

[tommy the cat]

Karl, have you read the article above?
I find that with my Mora I rarely sharpen with stones and find that a regular stropping with a polish gets the Mora very sharp. Dont stress its prob something obvious that you are doing not quite right that somebody far knowledgeable than me will put right for you!!!
Its all a learning curve my friend.
Dave

 

[spamel]

There are guides about, but it's best if you can find somebody to teach you one on one. The most important bit is maintaining the angle throughout the sharpening process. You can buy a tool that does that for you, but it's cheating IMO! The only way is to stick with it.

I assume you are right handed and holding the knife handle with your right hand. Put the knife onto the stone then rock it up until the bevel is flat on the stone and pointing away from you. Now, hold the knife and put your right thumb pad on the spine whilst resting the edge of your thumb on the stone. Keep it there and you will maintain the angle. You have to or else you have moved your thumb. Keep the stone wet, always. Don't brush the sludge off, it helps to sharpen quicker. Don't push too hard as you tend to slpi and rock the knife, remember you must maintain the angle throughout your sharpening process.

When you want to do the other bevel, place your index or pointing finger on the spine of the blade with the bevel coming towards you. You will be holding the knife choked up slightly. I tend to have the stone at 45 degrees to me now going to the right, it works better for me that way. So now you have your finger on the spine and resting on the stone, again you are maintaing that angle.

Just keep practising. The mora is a cheap knife, so if you mess it up who cares. Eventually it will click and you'll feel tha it is getting sharper. Once you get to tha point you'll wonder what the problem was! Keep the old knife for teaching others with if it is really messed up and buy a new one, they cost peanuts.

 

[mr dazzler]

Karl, I have used waterstones for quite some years now (since 1991), I love them and loathe them in more or less equal measure. They cut fast, cleanly, will give a strop quality polished finish with cutting ability that polishes and burnishes the wood surface with no need to use any sandpaper, BUT they are also soft, fragile, you have to flatten them every few minutes . You just have to practise at maintaining your sharpening angle with waterstones more so than any other type, they are unforgiving, at first we all tend to get it wrong, too far back, and you get a rounded neo convex bevell; too far up and the blade will gouge and dig into that pristine stone surface. A 6000 stone should give you a see your face shiny polish in a few seconds. as long as you went up through the grades in order. I saw a bloke on youtube as was sharpening a knife, he said something interesting, he said try to visualise that you are slicing a postage stamp off of the stone surface as you make the pass over it. Frankly I only really use waterstones to do plane irons and chisles nowaday's, I woulodnt take them out on site any where. I agree with tommy stropping is fast effective cheap and easy, I use it for all my axes and knives now.

 

[Still Waters]

All a mora needs is stropping once it leaves the manafacturers(unless you have damaged it)
Use a leather belt and some g3 automotive paint cutting compound available from most motor factors.

Keep stropping untill you can split a match without lighting it(cheers BR)and then you will have a sharp knife that will perform in most tasks.

 

[Karl5]

Thanks for all the fast replies, guys.

First of all - yup, I've read the stickys here regarding sharpening.
On re-reading them, I see I haven't tried the "marking the bevel with a pen" trick yet. I'll try that tomorrow to see if I'm actually keeping a good angle.
Spamel - thanks for the idea with holding a finger on the spine of the blade. I'll try that and see if it helps.

Apart from that, it seems like practise, practise, practise is the only true remedy to my problems...
Where are all of those instant magic solutions when you need them...

/ Karl

 

[spamel]

Instant magic solutions would take the fun out of learning!

 

[-Switch-]

One thing I'll add to this is the number of passes you make on the stone will make a huge difference.

Alot of people use the popular 'six one way, six the other way, six alternating' technique when they start (me included), but I found this few amount of passes doesn't always work. It all depends on your personal technique and the amount of pressure you're putting on the blade and, of course, how dull the edge is.

Once you've found a good reliable technique that works keep going on that stone until you feel confident that it's time to move up to the next. Progressing through the grits too quickly won't give you the finish you're after and can be counter-productive.

I use 25 strokes one way, then 25 the other.
Then 20 one way and 20 the other.
Then 15 one way and 15 the other,
then 10 one way and 10 the other,
and finally 5 one way and 5 the other.

Then I do 50 passes alternating the direction each time.

Then it's the same on the medium stone and, after that, the finest stone.

Then strop on a good bit of leather, 50 passes alternating direction each pass.

After that I have a mirror polish on the bevel and an edge that will pop hairs off my arm with no pressure being applied.

 

[mayfly]

Not so long ago, I had similar problems. The pen thing certainly worked well for me, made all the difference. And second the comments about a good strop.

I had a play with a friends Spyderco Sharp Maker recently and was amazed how good the results were. I've ordered one of these (deal going in BB makers sales BTW). There are many good, some would say better, alternatives to waterstones I've found!

Chris