Semi Aquatic ancestor theory

[Poacherman]

The Tierra del Fuegians might fit your criteria .....

Fuegians - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Okay, that's stretching it a bit, 900km of rough seas......

We know the Kawesqar's were canoe builders/sailors though. Whether they ventured down the island chains and over.....who knows ?
We didn't used to believe that the Vikings had reached America. There are Maori stories of the ice continent though.
We'd need evidences, and though ice preserves, it moves and it ends up either buried in more ice or melted at sea.

Adaptations to climateEdit​

Despite the cold climate, the early Yahgan wore little to no clothing, which only changed after extended contact with Europeans.[8] They were able to survive the harsh climate because:

• They kept warm by huddling around small fires, including in those set in boats, to stay warm. The name of "Tierra del Fuego" (land of fire) was based on the many fires seen by passing European explorers.
• They used rock formations on their land to shelter from the elements.
• They covered themselves in animal grease to trap heat and provide an extra layer of fat.[9]
• Over time, they evolved significantly higher metabolisms than average humans, allowing them to generate more internal body heat.[10]
• Their customary resting position was a deep squatting position, which reduced their surface area and helped to conserve heat.[9]

 

[Tengu]

Thanks. I was thinking of them.

Along with several ancient societies it was the women who swam.

Who are the Kawesqar's?

 

[Toddy]

One has to wonder why they stayed in such an unhospitable climate.....but then our folks lived and do live in parts of the country and islands that are pretty miserable climate wise. Until the arrival of the predatious europeans though, their waters were rich in high calorie food.

However, those kinds of reports are always open to interpretation. The thing is that the only people who met and wrote of them on that cusp of interaction with Europeans, did so with their own biased worldview.
Subsequent research on such peoples often shows that what was written was so false that it almost bears no reflection on reality, and I'd like to see better evidence for their metabolism changes....because while my ancestors happily trogged around Scotland in linen and wool, with bare legs, slept in the snow, etc., the present generation most certainly find that too cold. So, again, is it adaptation, not evolution ?

M

 

[Toddy]

The Yahgan may have been driven to the inhospitable Tierra del Fuego by enemies to the north. They were renowned for their complete indifference to the cold weather.[11] Although they had fires and small domed shelters, they routinely went about completely naked, and the women swam in cold waters hunting for shellfish.[12] They were often observed to sleep in the open, completely unsheltered and unclothed, while the Europeans shivered under blankets.[8] A Chilean researcher claimed their average body temperature was warmer than that of a European by at least one degree.[10]

Two things come to mind;
firstly wet clothing kills.
secondly, evidences of their culture do not support that they didn't have clothes or blankets.....after all in Summer, we don't wear much clothing or need blankets.

If you have time and interest, read this.....

The Rise of the Yaghan, Indigenous People of Tierra del Fuego Once Declared 'Extinct'

Long relegated to historical oblivion, this reinvigorated community is now pursuing deeper stories about their ancestors.

www.atlasobscura.com

 

[Poacherman]

One has to wonder why they stayed in such an unhospitable climate.....but then our folks lived and do live in parts of the country and islands that are pretty miserable climate wise. Until the arrival of the predatious europeans though, their waters were rich in high calorie food.

However, those kinds of reports are always open to interpretation. The thing is that the only people who met and wrote of them on that cusp of interaction with Europeans, did so with their own biased worldview.
Subsequent research on such peoples often shows that what was written was so false that it almost bears no reflection on reality, and I'd like to see better evidence for their metabolism changes....because while my ancestors happily trogged around Scotland in linen and wool, with bare legs, slept in the snow, etc., the present generation most certainly find that too cold. So, again, is it adaptation, not evolution ?

M

Wikipedia is not best resource tbh you could argue the present young generation is mostly evolved for chocolates crisps fake meat veganism videogames obesity sedentary lifestyle ect.Our ancestors were not spearing sausage rolls and cream buns, it's no wonder they feel the cold superfoods like liver,oysters animal fats are hardly consumed now.Bit off a disgrace really how far we have fell off the cliff.

 

[Poacherman]

Two things come to mind;
firstly wet clothing kills.
secondly, evidences of their culture do not support that they didn't have clothes or blankets.....after all in Summer, we don't wear much clothing or need blankets.

If you have time and interest, read this.....

The Rise of the Yaghan, Indigenous People of Tierra del Fuego Once Declared 'Extinct'

Long relegated to historical oblivion, this reinvigorated community is now pursuing deeper stories about their ancestors.

www.atlasobscura.com

I take Wikipedia with a pinch off salt really, Il read that thanks.

 

[Poacherman]

Thanks. I was thinking of them.

Along with several ancient societies it was the women who swam.

Who are the Kawesqar's?

Why do u think this is ? Is it because men were hunting or women store more fat.

 

[Toddy]

There's a huge body of anthropological and archaeological literature on that topic.

While the following isn't always true for every society, for hunter/gatherer ones it seems to hold more often than not.
Men hunt, but women and children forage/gather/small hunt and actually bring in more food on a reliable basis. Men bring in 'feasting food' and bulk food for processing for storage.....like a whole deer, or in the south American's case a small whale....or seals.

 

[Poacherman]

There's a huge body of anthropological and archaeological literature on that topic.

While the following isn't always true for every society, for hunter/gatherer ones it seems to hold more often than not.
Men hunt, but women and children forage/gather/small hunt and actually bring in more food on a reliable basis. Men bring in 'feasting food' and bulk food for processing for storage.....like a whole deer, or in the south American's case a small whale....or seals.

Off topic I wonder off a seal skin wetsuit was made ? That be cool.

 

[Tengu]

The Inuit had dry suits of gut. (Theres one in the British Museum).

The Yaghans had foxes in place of dogs.

(Which is why there were Foxes in the Falkland isles once...)

 

[Laurentius]

One has to wonder why they stayed in such an unhospitable climate.....but then our folks lived and do live in parts of the country and islands that are pretty miserable climate wise. Until the arrival of the predatious europeans though, their waters were rich in high calorie food.

However, those kinds of reports are always open to interpretation. The thing is that the only people who met and wrote of them on that cusp of interaction with Europeans, did so with their own biased worldview.
Subsequent research on such peoples often shows that what was written was so false that it almost bears no reflection on reality, and I'd like to see better evidence for their metabolism changes....because while my ancestors happily trogged around Scotland in linen and wool, with bare legs, slept in the snow, etc., the present generation most certainly find that too cold. So, again, is it adaptation, not evolution ?

M

Wim Hoff springs to mind, never mind all the mystic stuff it turns out that both he and his brother have more brown fat than the average.

 

[Poacherman]

The Inuit had dry suits of gut. (Theres one in the British Museum).

The Yaghans had foxes in place of dogs.

(Which is why there were Foxes in the Falkland isles once...)

That's fascinating Il look into this whale gut?

 

[Toddy]

Off topic I wonder off a seal skin wetsuit was made ? That be cool.

There are a lot of examples of skin suits. Made from walrus intestine, from fish skins, etc.,
Basically they were the caguoles of their time. Thin, fine, flexible, wind and rain (or sea if used to seal into a kayak) proof.

They are a lot of patient skillful work to make though, and while they're making them those folks aren't finding food. So, to be in a postition to make them indicates that they have sufficient food and a society that will support them while they're working.
The corollary is that sometimes those garments are a necessity to gather food in the first place....kind of what comes first, the chicken or the egg ?

 

[Toddy]

That's fascinating Il look into this whale gut?

Google

Images, gut parka

 

[Poacherman]

There are a lot of examples of skin suits. Made from walrus intestine, from fish skins, etc.,
Basically they were the caguoles of their time. Thin, fine, flexible, wind and rain (or sea if used to seal into a kayak) proof.

They are a lot of patient skillful work to make though, and while they're making them those folks aren't finding food. So, to be in a postition to make them indicates that they have sufficient food and a society that will support them while they're working.
The corollary is that sometimes those garments are a necessity to gather food in the first place....kind of what comes first, the chicken or the egg ?

Have u got any links to this? I find it v interesting

 

[Poacherman]

Google

Images, gut parka

wow the seal gut parka look just like a rain Mac that is a amazing p eice off craftmanship.

 

[Pattree]

Jacket made from the foreskin of a whale.

Don’t blame me! Blame Hermon Melville Moby Dick isn’t just a fictional story, it’s a treatise on whaling.

 

[GNJC]

The fact that a hominin can easily cope with or thrive in an aquatic environment is not evidence that it evolved in one; the aquatic ape theory has been comprehensively rejected by anthropology as a whole, if not be individual anthropologists.

As for foxes in the Falklands... firstly they were a sub-species of wolf, secondly their existence there outdates the first evidence of humans on the Falklands by thousands of years. Of course future discoveries may provide evidence for an earlier human presence there, but not yet.

 

[Broch]

As for foxes in the Falklands... firstly they were a sub-species of wolf,

That's not really accurate - wolf and fox have a common evolutionary ancestor, they have diverged into separate species. At no time was a wolf an evolutionary ancestor of the fox.

 

[GNJC]

That's not really accurate - wolf and fox have a common evolutionary ancestor, they have diverged into separate species. At no time was a wolf an evolutionary ancestor of the fox.

I think you have misunderstood my post; my use of the word 'firstly' was not in reference to what those animals originated as but, instead, to make clear it was the 'first' point. Hence my rather imaginative and clever use of the word 'secondly' to make the second point.