Searching for an insulated sleeping mat (NOT inflatable!)

[Flecktarnmann]

On my most recent trip my Klymit Static V failed me once again and died almost immediately on my first of 4 nights.

This made me realize that not using an inflatable mat is actually not that uncomfortable, so now I'm looking for a proper insulated and not inflatable pad that can accompany me on future journeys.

So far I've found the Savotta FDF sleeping pad (900g) and Bergans Extreme sleeping pad (695g), but both have a rather low R value (2 and 2.1 respectively), which is still better than my Klymit (which is 1.3 I believe), but I'm sure there has to be sonething better (and possibly lighter too), right?

My main concerns are:
- Insulation (especially for very cold nights on frozen ground or on thicker layers of snow)
- Durability, as I don't want the pad to be punctured easily
- Compact packsize, if possible, since I don't like carrying things outside of my backpack. Like mentiond before, comfort isn't my main concern, so it could very well be a thinner pad (as long as it is durable)

 

[TLM]

Savotta FDF is a military one not bad but... I have found Fjällräven 14mm one quite good in practice.

 

[matarius777]

On my most recent trip my Klymit Static V failed me once again and died almost immediately on my first of 4 nights.

This made me realize that not using an inflatable mat is actually not that uncomfortable, so now I'm looking for a proper insulated and not inflatable pad that can accompany me on future journeys.

So far I've found the Savotta FDF sleeping pad (900g) and Bergans Extreme sleeping pad (695g), but both have a rather low R value (2 and 2.1 respectively), which is still better than my Klymit (which is 1.3 I believe), but I'm sure there has to be sonething better (and possibly lighter too), right?

My main concerns are:
- Insulation (especially for very cold nights on frozen ground or on thicker layers of snow)
- Durability, as I don't want the pad to be punctured easily
- Compact packsize, if possible, since I don't like carrying things outside of my backpack. Like mentiond before, comfort isn't my main concern, so it could very well be a thinner pad (as long as it is durable)

I must say, I’m really surprised the Savotta mat is so low. I have one although I’ve not used it in really cold weather since getting Thermarest XTherm. I’d assumed, since Finland is so cold in winter, it would be much higher!

 

[hughtrimble]

500g R2.2 from Decathlon? https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/trekk...rson/_/R-p-306340?mc=8543045&c=BLUE_TURQUOISE

I've not used it, but have had it on my list to buy for ages, just not been near one of their stores for a while to go and see what it's like in hand.

I haven't found a decently insulating solid mat yet, so I use a combination of an air mat with a solid mat as a base, the latter acting as both added insulation and protection to the air mat, as well as a failsafe if the air mat fails.

 

[Moondog55]

Back in the day we just doubled up our Karrimats, and I still use CCF pads but now I use them under my airmats to add both insulation and puncture protection. If using just CCF then a short mat covering the torso area combined with a full length mat still works but a thick CCF will never be compact; simple physics rules that out. I have a couple of the British army mats here, they are actually pretty good

 

[haptalaon]

I use a wool blanket, and it's surprisingly good - like you, id sort of absorbed the idea that an inflatable mat was the only way. I've never used it with snow, but Ive had a good time with it throughout a regular winter.

As it's a textile you can fold it any way you like - it's bulky, but it doesn't have to be on the outside of a pack, and it can't fail on you. And it's also a multi-purpose thing.

The main issue is weight, I would say.

 

[Flecktarnmann]

500g R2.2 from Decathlon? https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/trekk...rson/_/R-p-306340?mc=8543045&c=BLUE_TURQUOISE

I've actually seen this already a while ago, but didn't think it actually has a decent R-value lol. Might pick it up.

I use a wool blanket, and it's surprisingly good

Weight and the bulkiness is a huge issue there sadly. I'm more into hiking than just camping in one spot. It'll also soak up the snow/rain and get even heavier.

I have found Fjällräven 14mm one quite good in practice.

I can find no information about the R-value and from the product description and from reviews online it just seem like a very overpriced regular foam mat (as is very common with this brand lol).

 

[TLM]

from reviews online it just seem like a very overpriced regular foam mat (as is very common with this brand lol).

I can hear you, Fjellräven has a slight tendency towards that. In this case the material is good, EVA and thickness is OK and it has a very small cell size which correlates to good insulation value, the smaller cells the better. My experience on it is good though, in the summer I usually carry a lighter alternative, Z-rest mostly.

 

[C_Claycomb]

…looking for a proper insulated and not inflatable pad …but both have a rather low R value (2 and 2.1 respectively)

My main concerns are:
- Insulation (especially for very cold nights on frozen ground or on thicker layers of snow)
- Durability, as I don't want the pad to be punctured easily
- Compact packsize, if possible, since I don't like carrying things outside of my backpack. Like mentiond before, comfort isn't my main concern, so it could very well be a thinner pad (as long as it is durable)

I am going to point out some problems with the post and the criteria.

Looking for a pad that is not inflatable, is not the same as wanting a pad that cannot easily be punctured. The first statement precludes all pads other than closed cell foam. The latter allows for inflatables that feature durable fabric covers.

IF the requirement for not inflatable is true, the requirements for greater insulation for winter and compact size are mutually exclusive with zero overlap. This is basic physics. For insulation you need air, if you want better insulation you need more air, if you don’t add air when laying out (inflating) you must carry that air volume, which is the opposite of compact.

I have used a Thermarest Ridgerest, large, cut to fit a hammock. It is closed cell foam, so durable, which is good, because there was no way I could have fitted it inside my pack. According to Thermarest, it is R2.1. Having used the Ridgerest and an original NeoAir together on frozen ground in Canada, I don’t think that R4.3 is enough for comfortable sleep in snowy winter.

Personally I think the answer is an inflatable pad for warmth, that will fit into your pack, and a footprint ground cloth of something puncture resistant, or thin closed cell pad to go under the inflatable pad.

 

[Flecktarnmann]

Personally I think the answer is an inflatable pad for warmth, that will fit into your pack, and a footprint ground cloth of something puncture resistant, or thin closed cell pad to go under the inflatable pad.

My issue here is that I always have a Bundeswehr foldable mat under my bivvy, which has so far held up against everything, even when sleeping directly on brambles. There are never any sharp objects in my bivvy, yet two different inflatable sleeping mats that I tried have all failed sooner or later.

I can see that the bulk factor is probably not realistic and I'll have to carry it outside of my backpack, but inflatable really is just a big no for me now. It's just not worth the hassle.

 

[TLM]

For insulation you need air, if you want better insulation you need more air, if you don’t add air when laying out (inflating) you must carry that air volume, which is the opposite of compact.

This is the reality, theoretically there are some plastic aerogels that have very high insulation properties that could change this. I haven't handled any of them and at the moment I suspect that price would be - interesting. When closed cell size goes below 100 microns the heat insulation properties shoot up - if I remember correctly because that cell size do not support convection. The silica aerogels I have handled do have quite remarkable properties at very light weight but they are kind of brittle.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Thanks for the clarification @Flecktarnmann , that makes sense.

I fear you will have to just double up on pads and put up with the bulk. About the only tricks you can play are using Mylar foil in conjunction with foam to reflect some heat, and building natural debris beds to put the pads on, to increase separation from cold ground.

This site might not be good for shopping for you, but it has good info on pads.

FlexMat Plus LW Sleeping Mat

Exped FlexMat Plus LW Sleeping Mat available now at Ultralight Outdoor Gear with FREE UK+EU Delivery, in-depth reviews, full tech specs & helpful buying advice.

ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk

 

[Moondog55]

I actually shared a Flexmat plus with a mate, cut in half it is long enough to insulate and pad the torso area which works well over that British CCF pad, but the use of a thin reflective layer over that seems to also work for some people. Reflective underlay for engineered flooring is what we used, UL and only 3mm thick. I didn't feel much improvement but my mate swears by it.
We used coupling tapes [ S2S brand] to stop out mats separating and sliding off each other.
However I'm old and I need more padding for a good nights sleep and I use a S2S ComfortPlus usually in the Long&Wide version usually, adding the CCF for snow.

 

[Keith_Beef]

I got a two Bundeswehr folding sleeping mats a couple of years ago but still not found to opportunity to test them. It's a fairly lightweight mat but not exactly compact as it folds into a rectangle 27.5 x 38 x 3.5 cm. It apparently doubles as a stiffener in the German Jägerrucksack and the larger infantry rucksack.

Other mats at Varusteleka are here.

If it turns out to not be insulating enough, I also have some Mylar "space blankets", those things that are silver on one side and gold on the other.

 

[Barney Rubble]

I very rarely sleep on an inflatable pad these days, I made the switch about 4 years ago and honestly haven't missed it. I found that you needed to allow a few camps for your back to adjust to the mat, but after that it's absolutely fine. When I used my Exped inflatable pad, I often woke up with a back ache, not so with the CCF. Yes, they're bulky to pack, but no worries of punctures and no dramas. Also versatile, because they work great as a sit pad too, especially when folded up.

Forgive my cynicism! But, I'm not convinced that the R values are particularly fair on CCF pads and would encourage you to give them a go in all seasons. I have a few different CCF pads which are used all year round. They each have an R value somewhere between 1.8 and 2.2. I've never experienced any cold coming up from the ground in the winter months here in the UK. Everyone of course has a different physiology and sleep parameters, but CCF pads have also been used the world over in all seasons and seem to work for most people in most climates.

Anyhow, I've been using the Exped Flexmats (I have the standard flexmat - 325g, and the thicker Flexmat Plus - 480g), both have been great and the accordion style of folding them means that they can be packed inside your rucksack relatively easily. These are by far my most used pads.

I used to use the Thermarest Ridgerest So-Lite, but I found it used to be quite slippery and my sleeping bag would move on it quite easily (presumed it was down to the foil lining on one side).

I also have a Multimat Comfort 12XL (365g). It's very cheap (approx £15), relatively thick at 12mm but also nice and wide at 57mm. It's nice and comfortable, but a bit bulkier to pack than the Exped Flexmats.

Over the last weekend, I camped out with a sheepskin and a wool groundsheet. As a combo, it was bulky and quite heavy, but plenty warm and comfortable enough.

The Savotta FDF pad looks great, I've been very tempted to get one, but as with your concerns, I was put off by the sheer bulk and weight of it as it seems a lot heavier/bulkier than other CCF pads. The Exped pads would be my recommendation, although I'd also be tempted by the Nemo Switchblade.

All in all, I'd definitely recommend.

 

[Pattree]

If it turns out to not be insulating enough, I also have some Mylar "space blankets", those things that are silver on one side and gold on the other.

I’m willing to be wrong but I don’t think a Mylar sheet will help much with ground insulation. You are looking to insulate from heat conduction away from your body. The Mylar is good for reflecting radiating heat but it doesn’t stop heat leaving into the ground, it’s too thin.
Try putting Mylar over your hand and running cold water over it.

 

[Pattree]

Over the last weekend, I camped out with a sheepskin

Best ever but I’m a car camper these days.
I prefer a tight fleece to the long shaggy ones and have been happy with just a short one (torso) in the past. A shop assistant in Keswick let me try a few out for size on the floor. She looked surprised.
If I were still walking I’d need a waxed cotton bag with a good fold over closure for my fleece and strap it outside the rucksack.

 

[Keith_Beef]

I’m willing to be wrong but I don’t think a Mylar sheet will help much with ground insulation. You are looking to insulate from heat conduction away from your body. The Mylar is good for reflecting radiating heat but it doesn’t stop heat leaving into the ground, it’s too thin.
Try putting Mylar over your hand and running cold water over it.

What I meant was putting the mylar sheet inside my bag, silver side against my body, as an extra layer, in addition to the kip mat. Or if that turns out to be uncomfortable or noisy, between kip mat and bag.

 

[hughtrimble]

What I meant was putting the mylar sheet inside my bag, silver side against my body, as an extra layer, in addition to the kip mat. Or if that turns out to be uncomfortable or noisy, between kip mat and bag.

Your suggested application against your body to me suggests it'll trap the moisture your body produces and conduct heat away (they have zero insulation value, they're to reflect heat). Mors did a really interesting video on Mylar and the misunderstandings around how it can be used (can't access YouTube right now but worth a search). Between mat and bag sounds more promising but I thought it needed an air gap to function properly to reflect heat and trap the warm air between you and the sheet?