Can anybody remind me what the rules are about Scouts and knives. I looked on Scoutbase but I couldn't find anything.
YiS
-- Eric
YiS
-- Eric
Scouts and knives
- Thread starter The Green Man
- Start date
The only rule in POR is they cant be worn as part of the uniform unless for religious reasons.
There used to be a knife & axe award you had to pass before you were allowed to use one in Scouts, but i dont think it still exists.
You cant ask the kids to buy or carry a knife these days so you will have to supply them. I know some groups that buy moras, store them in a locked box and issue them when needed for an activity.
There used to be a knife & axe award you had to pass before you were allowed to use one in Scouts, but i dont think it still exists.
You cant ask the kids to buy or carry a knife these days so you will have to supply them. I know some groups that buy moras, store them in a locked box and issue them when needed for an activity.
allanscot said:
Thats what we do. we have a few Mora's in an ammo box, and they are used under supervision.
Its usually leaders looking like extra's from a Rambo movie we have problems with... Most Scout campsites are private land, but don't forget the restrictions on blade length etc on public sites.
Also, beware the bit in the law that states about carrying knives on school grounds if your group meets at a school - any blade length is forbidden, even if it is at 3am on a weekend morning in the school holidays...!!!
Cheers
Peter
What is that exactly?PeterW said:
I ask because a colleague of mine was stopped on Blackfriars bridge in t'smoke at 3.00 a.m. after a job and when they found one of those 1 1/2" long swiss army knives on him he was escorted to the local chez plod.
Also in response to original question I would check with your county / district commisioner. Some districts (like mine) have rules that contradict scoutbase's rules on various things.
for example if you move from ASL to SL then according to scoutbase you do not need another CRB here in West Lancs. you do
I asked HQ the question and received a mail which saidthat all knives should be securely stored and that no knife is part of the uniform.
I had a bit of a run-in with my DESC when he saw my machete he said it was illegal on camp but the info from the info centre at HQ. Give them a bell.
I had a bit of a run-in with my DESC when he saw my machete he said it was illegal on camp but the info from the info centre at HQ. Give them a bell.
Perhaps a little irresponsible and old fashioned but once they have learnd to cut themselves with knives, they also learn how not to do it and therefore will be more careful next time.
As an explorer leader, they all seem to be competent with knives when they arrive with us. Perhaps spend an evening on sharp stuff to include axes, knives and saws? I think it is best done on a training weekend as it is all in context. We run over the principles with new explorersto make sure they are all on a par with safety.
Sorry I couldn't be more help.
As an explorer leader, they all seem to be competent with knives when they arrive with us. Perhaps spend an evening on sharp stuff to include axes, knives and saws? I think it is best done on a training weekend as it is all in context. We run over the principles with new explorersto make sure they are all on a par with safety.
Sorry I couldn't be more help.
In the SAI (one of the two Irish scouting boides before the merger) the position was that the scouts could carry pocketknives once they had passed the 'Care and safety of knives' section of the Scoutcraft badge (at least, that's my reading of it!) Recommended knife for scouts is the SAK type non-locking folder with relatively short blade. I'd be surprised if the situation was very different in the UK.
We have a patrol going to the National competition ("Phoenix") and they have been explicitly told to have a pocketknife for each scout. On the other hand, at Eurojam they are not allowed to have them (rightly, IMHO).
Slan,
Malachy
We have a patrol going to the National competition ("Phoenix") and they have been explicitly told to have a pocketknife for each scout. On the other hand, at Eurojam they are not allowed to have them (rightly, IMHO).
Slan,
Malachy
You have to have good reason to be carrying any fixed blade or locking folder (even a micro opinel) or any non locking folder over 3" blade length in a public place. The only thing you can carry as a right (and even then you will be in deep trouble if the boys in blue suspect you are up to no good) is a sub 3" slip joint folder. Having said that though with good reason you can carry pretty much anything, though of course you may have to justify that reason in court. I certainly don't worry about carrying a billhook or two when I'm off to do some hedgelaying and would be sure of my reasons for having a fixed blade on a bushcrafty trip but when in public both would be safley tucked away in my bag, no point attracting attention!Brixton said:
If you want chapter and verse from a lawyer pop over to british blade and ask in the law forum.
Cheers
David
HI,
Just walked into the Finnish tent at Eurojam, and one of their activities was carving wooden butter knives using Frost's Vikings. I'll post up some pics when I get home. All the Nordic groups seem to allow their scouts to have fixed blades: Helle even have dedicated scout models. (I have an old one and yesterday I saw the updated one that the Norwegian scouts are using.)
It's a pity we can't be a bit more flexible with our own scouts over here (admittedly Irish and UK knife law is a sticking point!) My scouts all sat down and happily carved away without any evidence of dangerous usage. It was a great project for understanding woodgrain and the importance of a sharp knife.
Slan
Mal
Just walked into the Finnish tent at Eurojam, and one of their activities was carving wooden butter knives using Frost's Vikings. I'll post up some pics when I get home. All the Nordic groups seem to allow their scouts to have fixed blades: Helle even have dedicated scout models. (I have an old one and yesterday I saw the updated one that the Norwegian scouts are using.)
It's a pity we can't be a bit more flexible with our own scouts over here (admittedly Irish and UK knife law is a sticking point!) My scouts all sat down and happily carved away without any evidence of dangerous usage. It was a great project for understanding woodgrain and the importance of a sharp knife.
Slan
Mal
andyn
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
In terms of laws this article from the bushcraftuk article section may help clarify when knives will be considered illegal.
http://www.bushcraftuk.co.uk/articles/knife_law.html
http://www.bushcraftuk.co.uk/articles/knife_law.html
As an explorer scout, we are allowed to carry whatever we feel we need. Most people only have an SAK, but my friend and I have been alowed to carry sheath knives on our belts, unless we are mingling with the public. Our leaders all carry SAK's or leathermans, and we have never had any problems whatsoever. I have even taken my GB small forext axe to meets, and it has gone down really well, with loads of nice comments about it.
Of course the law applies with the the use of sheath knives and as many scout camp sites have either public foot paths near or through them they are public places our own group does not allow any personal knives even at camp but we have a box of assorted knives to use under supervision Explorer scouts are warned of the risk of carring a knife and i usualy suggest an old army folding knife . If they are away from the public and other scouts etc then they use a frosts mora but its not worn on a belt in case its forgotten on a trip to a tuck shop or public place . Unfortunatly there is a strong anti knife feeling and any one with a knife on them is at serious risk of being made a scape goat .
We are running a bushcraft course at a local Youth Centre, based on a school site. Luckily we have the expertise of Garrick (from Forest Knights) and occaisionaly Wayne (from the same) to run the course. At each session young people are given Frost Mora to use, which are locked away after use. I sought out the permission of the school's head teacher, and advised the local police of what we are doing. Both seemed happy, and particularly pleased taht we spent a lot of effort refering to the knives as tools rather than weapons. The young people responded well to this also.
However, I suspect a winning factor for them was that I had carried out a proper risk assessment. I can send a copy of this to anyone who may be interested.
Groovy
Paul
However, I suspect a winning factor for them was that I had carried out a proper risk assessment. I can send a copy of this to anyone who may be interested.
Groovy
Paul
How did that go, fella?
I ran a skill day for some explorers at a local campsite covering wood collection ,fire lighting, a little bit of cooking, and axe saw and knife. we have some mora's recently bought, the parents had to sign a consent form which we made up clearly stating that we will be using some sharp tools. No one knocked us back so the lads made short stakes for a tarp or tent pegs, attempted some feather sticks, some supports for the green stick cooking impliment.
Alot of big smiles from the lads and lass's and a ear ache for me "when we going again"
My DESL was more than happy making pointy sticks!!
I ran a skill day for some explorers at a local campsite covering wood collection ,fire lighting, a little bit of cooking, and axe saw and knife. we have some mora's recently bought, the parents had to sign a consent form which we made up clearly stating that we will be using some sharp tools. No one knocked us back so the lads made short stakes for a tarp or tent pegs, attempted some feather sticks, some supports for the green stick cooking impliment.
Alot of big smiles from the lads and lass's
and a ear ache for me "when we going again" My DESL was more than happy making pointy sticks!!
my rule was that if they had one then I would teach them how to use it properly, if they didn't and it was ok with mum and pa then I would even source one for them - all my kids had sak's or multitools and knew how to use my knives, kukri's or machete's
the PC crowd keep wrecking it for us which is why I stopped last year and gave my warrant back.
it used to be that on scout sites side arms may be worn, now thats getting trickier by the day. if kid dont cut themselves then they wont respect any blade - just like fire, you can mother them too much.
fire and knives are fascinating for kids (and adults) but they need to learn that they're both tools rather than toys.
the PC crowd keep wrecking it for us which is why I stopped last year and gave my warrant back.
it used to be that on scout sites side arms may be worn, now thats getting trickier by the day. if kid dont cut themselves then they wont respect any blade - just like fire, you can mother them too much.
fire and knives are fascinating for kids (and adults) but they need to learn that they're both tools rather than toys.
I let my unit carry what they bring to camp, most have a SAK, some Moras, and one has a rather nice custom job that his Grandad bought back from Germany a few years back.
I took my japenese water stones to camp this year and spent way too much time sharpening knives for the troop that we went with and most of my unit learnt to do their's themselves, although none of them could be bothered to strop them afterwards
Silly people, they will learn
I took my japenese water stones to camp this year and spent way too much time sharpening knives for the troop that we went with and most of my unit learnt to do their's themselves, although none of them could be bothered to strop them afterwards
Silly people, they will learn
E
explorerscout
Guest
We allow are "young people", swiss army style only, but supply sharp hand axe's that will do nearly everything, including tea spoon making.
Just a point as PeterW says the leaders are the challenge
Yes me included with my khukri.
Just a point as PeterW says the leaders are the challenge
Yes me included with my khukri.
remember there is also an exemption on age restrition, to enable young people to buy their own small folding knife.
