Scouting.

[hog]

Gents..and Ladies.
My Son is about to progress from Cubs to Scouts.
When I went to pick him up tonight the Akeila mentioned that there was no room at the closest Scout Troop but (and she hinted strongly) that if some one was willing to be trained along with one or two others a local troop could be formed.
My wife was told of the problem when she took my Son to the cubs this evening and also (half jokingly) I was on the short list to become a leader/asistant!!!
I am willing to help here as they need some where to progress to when leaving the cubs.
Sugestions please folks and help me make up my mind.

 

[smallholder]

My Dad became a scout leader when my brother and myself moved up from cubs, that was about 30 years ago, then it was no paperwork no health and safety and a great time for everyone. Now i expect there is so much paperwork it would be a pain in the behind unless you like that kind of stuff.

 

[Graham_S]

Do it.
Any minor niggles from the paperwork is nothing compared to what you'll get out of it.
It's well worth it.

 

[Prodigal Son]

I say go for it!!

Paperwork is a pain, H&S is to be expected afterall they are other peoples children, rules are what you make of them.

As you are already hanging around on a bushcraft forum, I'd say you have the right mindset, you get out what you put in!!

I'm dreading my son coming up from cubs to scouts, it means I'm going to have to grow up and act sensible again!!

Go on, give it a go, it's only a couple of hours a week ...





Off!!

 

[cbkernow]

hahahahah thats how we get our claws into you, we promise "it will only be a couple of hours a week".

There is a lot more paperwork than I remember my dad having to do when he was cub leader and more health and safety but thats not a bad thing.

There will be a scout leader in charge, he gets all the rubbish jobs like risk assessments and permission to camp forms. You get to come in, help the kids, pass on your skills, hopefully have fun and enable more kids to take part in the whole scouting experience.

Scouting as an adult is what you make of it, if you can't commit too much time, you can just come along on troop nights, run some games, maybe do a bit of crowd control while skip does his thing. The group will push you to do more, they will love having help and if you are willing to take on some of the paperwork, or run a bushcraft course or progress to being a uniformed leader and do the leader training, they will love you!

Go along for a bit, see if you enjoy it, I bet you will! But don't get scared off by the paperwork and H&S stuff.

cb
Assistant Scout Leader, Cornwall

 

[Logit]

i would say be weary.... i was in a similar situation a year ago, there was no explorer unit close enough for our scouts to actively go to, so myself and another where coached into opening a new unit..... with lots of promises from parents and other leaders for support we did it.....

Now i find myself as the leader, finding it hard to run on my own as the other leader realised he could not commit all the time he needed too..

To keep our unit alive, i find myself doing 2/3 nights a week and at least two weekend camps a month...... 2 hours a week they said! Don’t get me wrong, i love it, but am now struggling with an ever increasing sized unit.... and all of the above is just trying to keep in with district events!!

By all means, go along to a pre formed and running troop, help out for a bit, see what its like, then make the decision.... i would be careful with opening a new troop, its a massive commitment....

my uncle did it 20 years ago, and is still there...........

On the other hand, it’s one of life’s most enriching things, and you get a great buzz from it!

 

[crazydave]

dont bother even thinking about setting unit up as its too fiddly now as you'll have to do all the training before getting anywhere near and its a pain now even if you just get the basic stuff out of the way the bits you need for camping and stuff will take forever. you used to be able to turn up and restart units literally of the cuff and some see it as a challenge but only if you have the experience of running a regular troop.

best bet is find a local troop and go along to see if you like it then suggest going on board as a helper as you'll up the ration and allow more kids to join (provided of course if your lad wants you involved) it can be a joy to do but do it on your terms or you'll burn out too quick as you risk everyone and his jobsworth throwing stuff at you they cant be bothered to do.

 

[SimonM]

Do it, you'll love it.

I got back involved after a 16 year break, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.

It gives you a great sense of satisafction watching young people do something that you taught them....and it gives you access to loads of campsites for your own bushcrafty weekends without the Scouts!

Also, think how it looks to a potential employer when they see that you give something back to society...

Go on...you know you want to!

Simon

 

[hunter mark]

hello mate.

I have just started to get invloved with the cub pack my 8 year old son goes to. I became concerned that there didn't seem to be much in the way of 'outdoors' stuff going on - lots of game playing & artist & IT type badge work but little hiking, camping, navigating or map reading type exercises. All thats right up my street so I offered to help out as an assitant leader. there's myself & the existing leader sharing the running of the pack between us - theres fifteen cubs at present.

However - starting a pack/troop from stcratch will be a big challenge. You will need to go through the Scout Association training/vetting & a CRB check to get the ball rolling before you can actually form the troop or have contact with the lads. The Scout Association or one of the other leaders can put you onto the District Commissioner who can then point you in the right direction. then you will need to find money & a premesis to meet at. Obviously equiping the new troop will be expensive for initial outlay of gear such as camping equipment & everday stuff you need at each meeting.

You might do better offering your services to the existing troop thats not so local - I imagine they have reached thier max lads/leader ratio and cant take any more because of it. having you in thier numbers will open up opportunities for more lads to join. I also imagine they will bite your arm off to have you on board as comitted help is a rare thing. Most parents mis-understand what the movement is about & see it as a baby sitting service to off load thier youngsters for a couple of hours, rather than what contribution can be put into the group.

Once you have some experience & done the training under the wing of the other troop, you may find it a lot easier to kick off a troop in your own right.

On the plus side though - it will be enormously rewarding. I get a real kick out of being able to show the cubs that life isnt all about Xboxes or sitting at home. Watching the lights come on after showing a cub how to read a map, give a grid reference, walk on a compass bearing, tying a bowline etc is a real joy. camps are hard work logistically but also extremely rewarding. I still clearly remember all the great experiences scouting gave me & am keen to be able to pass on that experience to my son & the other cubs.

make no mistake though - you are going to need other willing leaders apart from yourself to make it run well.

Its cubs tonight! - map reader badge getting underway. tonights subject - relief/contours & grid references + compass points.

 

[Fizzlebang]

Seems odd they say they have no room....surely they just need another adult helper and they can handle more.
Either way if you decide to help out its great fun and very rewarding. I've just become an explorer leader after helping my other half now and then with her scout troop for a few years. Thoroughly enjoying it.

 

[crazydave]

a lot of units put a limit on their sizes due to leaders, type of leader/helper and the size of the hut. the new regs dont help I took over from a solitary leader who was also the gsl in the worlds smallest hut with 16 kids. when they moved to the new hut the troop size doubled and he dropped out leaving me (a venture leader), an ex cub leader and an ex beaver leader

I had 35 boys in mine at one point and most of the time there was just two of us but we had a nice big hut. she had 42 mixed in hers and a smaller hut but more helpers.

camps it was frequently just me but I had no problem with it as the boys had to sort themselves out with me throwing food at them every now and again or doing a lesson, they loved doing more basic camps or just running about in the woods. forget a lot of the modern bushcraft ideas though as a lot of sites have banned axes and saws because the kids and adults chop anything down. if its not dead standing, dead sitting or on the woodpile or it cant be split with a decent knife then tough. at snowball we would push dead birch over up to 10 inches diameter and 30-40 foot high using the patented yorkshire gut barging techinique, snap into decent lengths using brute force, stupidity and a forked sycamore then split the logs down with wedges and mallets. usually though it was old pallets or construction waste timber

hammocks arent welcome at a lot of them as well and havent been for the past 15 years since there was a speight of overweight leaders using cheap hammocks and damaging the trees.

I handed my warrant back when they did to many silly changes and I cant say I'll have another one. I still help out though on a regular basis but more on a district/county badge level. I've seen a lot of cub dads move up with little jonny which is great except they generally only know cub games and sports which means that when the dad ends up having to run the troop they end up off program and become youth clubs for want of a better description

I've seen a lot of scouty stuff transferred into the bushcraft community over the years where hopefully it will stay alive and maybe even drift back again when they've realised what a mess they've made of this last set of changes. only two of the 5 sections are working normally beavers and cubs, scouts is ending too early, explorers should never have been district level and network has struggled from day one. the leader training is a nightmare as its lost its flexibility and the new online stuff doesnt work at all. what they need is a form of leader boot camp so you can be trained and classed as basically competant in core skills.

the average lifespan of a scouter is 3 years which is the time their child is in the section less a little for recruitment, few leaders last beyond little jonny moving on or out of the troop when he discovers skate boards, bus stops and white cider.

 

[scrogger]

Go for it I have been involved for about 18 months now and I get a lot out of it. My Son is coming up at Christmas and my Daughter has just become the first EVER girl with a troop that has been on the go for 50 odd yrs.

It is only a couple of hours but be careful you dont get pushed or guilted into doing more than you want too. I am sure the group scout leaders are trained in giving out guilt trips!!!

On a side issue and sorry to highjack the thread a bit. How many leaders pay subs for their own kids? And do you pay for camp and activities again for your own kids.? At the minute I think I am expected to pay for all.

Once again sorry to jack the thread.

Andy

 

[5.10leader]

Couldn't agree more - go for it. I used to be an assistant scout leader and thoroughly enjoyed it. Teaching the kids was very rewarding but also the social side when associating with other leaders was also good. The only problem I had was the increasing conflict with time required for work, family and scouting. Unfortunately something had to give and that was scouting. However I have still kept in touch and give bushcraft instruction as and when required.

On the other point, with my troop all of the leaders payed for their childrens subs, camp, outings etc.

 

[Bootstrap Bob]

i would say be weary.... i was in a similar situation a year ago, there was no explorer unit close enough for our scouts to actively go to, so myself and another where coached into opening a new unit..... with lots of promises from parents and other leaders for support we did it.....

Now i find myself as the leader, finding it hard to run on my own as the other leader realised he could not commit all the time he needed too..

To keep our unit alive, i find myself doing 2/3 nights a week and at least two weekend camps a month...... 2 hours a week they said! Don’t get me wrong, i love it, but am now struggling with an ever increasing sized unit.... and all of the above is just trying to keep in with district events!!

The group in my village have been trying to get me to become a leader for years but I keep resisting for all of these reasons.

I have helped out but now I find they're advertising in the village newsletter because two of the four leaders are stepping down this year.

I feel like I should do something but I have a 9 month old son who takes up most of my spare time and I don't get the opportunity to get to meets anymore

 

[crazydave]

Go for it I have been involved for about 18 months now and I get a lot out of it. My Son is coming up at Christmas and my Daughter has just become the first EVER girl with a troop that has been on the go for 50 odd yrs.

It is only a couple of hours but be careful you dont get pushed or guilted into doing more than you want too. I am sure the group scout leaders are trained in giving out guilt trips!!!

On a side issue and sorry to highjack the thread a bit. How many leaders pay subs for their own kids? And do you pay for camp and activities again for your own kids.? At the minute I think I am expected to pay for all.

Once again sorry to jack the thread.

Andy

everyone pays for their kids regardless as your kids are attending as participants so no diferent to if you werent a leader/helper. you should be able to claim a lot of your stuff like uniform and training costs back from group (not troop) if they have any money. if you are having money issues then you can approach group, if run properly then there should be a facility to cover it discreetly

depending on the ratio then leaders should get a free camp as supervisors and siblings may get a reduced rate to cover food. some units the group will subsidise leader expenses. often it depends on the site as some dont charge for leaders which makes it easier to add a quid each child to pay for your food, jamborettes often do a half fare for leaders. for years my missus used to do fundraising for summer camp so she could get more kids to go as we had a lot of poorer kids in that group. a lot of bag packing but it was successfull and she paid for herself. my group was a wealthy village one so I didnt have to pay for anything officially and we had on average two charity places on each camp.

I do a lot of county stuff where you might have 40 kids but 20+ leaders covering the bases and providing safety so we end up paying for ourselves - ie snowdonia walking training coming up next week will cost us about 30 quid each and I'll end up in the kitchen or minibus for most of it.

ask and see what they charge to cover stuff like that, I've been out with units who go crazy when stuff gets broken because they havent added a fiver to the cost to cover breakages and consumables. you should be having planning meetings to sort all that sort of thing out so you can ask then.

 

[scrogger]

Cheers for that 5.10 it will be interesting seeing who pays for what I have a lot of friends involved with other units and also in other districts and there is a real mix, however the norm appears to be that the leaders kids pay either no or reduced subs but pay for all camps and activities.

I wonder if it comes down to how well funded the unit is in the first place.

Andy

 

[scrogger]

Crazydave sorry mate I think you misinterpret my question, I am not saying that I dont want to pay but rather what other troops do as regards their leaders and costs. Personally I dont have any issues but I know a number of leaders who by the very nature their children were involved get asked to help out and then a whole new spiral starts.

Like for instance Summer camp this year My wife works so is out all day and I am asked to go as a leader as they are short on numbers. This means my kids have to go.
should I have to pay? can I reclaim the cost of fuel to get there and back. Its not something you like to discuss as we all know its run on a shoe string in some cases.

Mine is just a for instance but one mate of mine finds it quite hard to meet all the costs as well as giving up his time and then paying to get to camps and activities on top.
Anyway its probably a subject best left as I do not wish it to distract from the OP.

I was just interested to see what other units did.

 

[crazydave]

I wasnt picking or objecting but thats how it is generally, I was lucky but was happy to pay when required. you can claim petrol back and other expenses so if for example you couldnt do a full camp but agreed to turn up for a couple of days to give the others a rest then you should get them to allocate enough in the budget to cover it. the group should have a fundraising commitee to cover things like leader costs or coach hire. if your kids are under scout age then they go as family which is generally half fare unless they can get on the activities. have words with the gsl and see what he/she says about subsidising you. its perfectly valid I reckon and htey have no reason to object. I regularly took helpers youngsters or babies with me and played uncle dave all week as I hated jamborettes and would stay back at camp listening to radio1 in ibiza larging it up with the kids while the other leaders were off badge swapping.

some parents do get the wrong impression and assume that subs is used to pay the leaders and get a bit of a shock after trying to go all high and mighty on us only to be shot down with the facts that it is voluntary and all our time is free.

it can be a grind organising programs running accounts, maintaining discipline and trying to get enough leaders. invariably it means you end up doing it all yourself and since the new program came about there's a lot more district stuff to contend with.

leaders are generally at a premium because they burn out if stuff is dumped on them. I had 8 troops and two venture units I would help out with on camps and troop nights mainly because mine met on a tuesday and it gave me a network I could stick my own kids with when doing expeditions and the like.

 

[Rothley Bill]

I have read a lot of bunkum in this tread. The biggest being the perpetual joke of " only 2 hours a week" that one had me unawares.
I have a leader who only does 2 hours a week as that is all he can spare, I now do 2 evenings a week as I work with 2 groups. You put in the time you can afford to put in, its a simple as that.

Go for it, its great being a leader. Yes you have to do some training, it isnt that you don't know what you are doing, its just a case of showing people that you do, after all they are someone elses kids! Look at training as a way to meet other leaders in the same boat, have joint meeting and camps, that what we do. It reduces the kit you have to take and what can seem like the burden of organising a camp.

If you approach people in the right way, and everyone is different, you will find other leaders/adults to help out.

I say go for it, I did and I have not looked back at all.

 

[hog]

Thanks for all the info. Have provisionally said that I will consider helping to get another troop going, but have said I need two others to help. All equipment - kayaks, tents, etc - is already there from the previous (now closed) scout troop. Will now wait for feedback from them.