safety of stoves in yurts

[kin]

Hi,
We've built a 16ft yurt and we're about to move to north wales to live in it over winter. It's going to be windy, wet and cold so obviously we want to put in a woodburning stove. We went to buy one, a really nice Arrow Acorn 4, but the guy on the phone (a stove expert) & a few other people seriously warned us that it is very unsafe to have a stove in our yurt. He explained that because the flu is so short that downdrafts are a huge problem - the biggest worldwide killer of people living in tents! He said that UK building regulations say you have to have 4.5 metres minimum of flu pipe to combat this problem. We would have only 1.5 metres. I'm sure this is not such a problem for short holidays or camping, but it being winter in north wales means I imagine we'll want the fire on all the time and all night to keep the cold damp away. Plus, it's not just a short little holiday. The guy said we can get smoke alarms and stuff, but also advised that because it's so windy, these downdrafts may happen frequently, filling the yurt with lethal smoke, this would be anying as well as dangerous.
Does anyone have any advice or knowledge on this matter?
I'd be so greatful for any advice, we're moving in less than two weeks and we want to be warm in our yurt! If we can't get a stove, which do you think is a better option between a little gas or electric heater?
Thanks!

 

[robin wood]

He explained that because the flu is so short that downdrafts are a huge problem - the biggest worldwide killer of people living in tents! He said that UK building regulations say you have to have 4.5 metres minimum of flu pipe to combat this problem.

Hi,

Did your man offer any statistics or sources for his info on the biggest worldwide killer of people living in tents? Personally I would trust a stove far more than gas. With a stove any harmful gasses will be accompanied by unpleasant smoke so if you are awake you know if it is blowing back. Gas appliances if not running correctly can produce carbon monoxide which is odorless and kills people lulling them gently into drowsiness. Electric + damp is not such a recipe for safety either.

It sounds to me if your man is quoting building regs he is a stove supplier only used to installing in buildings, in Mongolia folk have lived in Yurts with stoves and short pipes for centuries and with higher winds than North Wales too.

Whether or not you are subject to downdraft in a given situation depends on many things but particularly the prevailing wind direction and surrounding trees/buildings, is the wind likely to blow down your flue? It may be a problem when the wind is in the east but not in the west say. If it was me I would stick the stove in and fire it up, if I was worried I would let it die out at night for the first few weeks until I had learned how to run it without it smoking. If there was a problem buy another 3 foot of pipe and an anti downdraft cowl to go on top. Running a good hot clean fire will give far more updraft and less smoke so a smaller fire burning brightly may be better than a big fire which you run closed up and ticking over.

I have little experience of running stoves in yurts though have slept in plenty of other folks happily, I also sold stoves for a living many years ago, houses and tents are different.

 

[JohnC]

I'd be interested in how this turns out as we are planning to use a wood burner in our yurt. My understanding is there is a fair bit of ventilation left near the bottom of the wall sections near the door (Iknow there is on ours).
You could try http://www.redkiteyurts.com/welcome.htm where Paul has experience of building yurts and using stoves in them.

 

[Gailainne]

You can get carbon monoxide and dioxide alarms for less than 20 quid, run on button batteries. I would suggest whatever mechanical changes you make, you add those to your shopping list.

I'm not 100% sure about this but cant you get a cowl that fits over the end of the chimney/pipe which always turns away from the wind so creating a draw ?.

I hope everything works out for you and yours, if you can I'd and I'm sure a lot of people would like to hear and see (take lots of photos ) your experiences over the winter.

Regards

Stephen

 

[robin wood]

How about this stove, comes complete with anti downdraft cowl.

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67693

 

[Oblio13]

We have a steel tent stove and a titanium tent stove, and use them all the time. The only problem has been a couple times on very windy days when the tent fabric would blow and pull the stovepipe sections apart. The tent fills up with smoke, and there are a few minutes of frantic scrambling to put everything back together.

 

[Tadpole]

CO2 is a big killer of people camping, but mainly from the use of unsuitable stoves in tents, a report in the late 70s found that CO2 could build up in a 4-man tent to a dangerous level in just 30 minutes, even with a vent open. This affect is made worse when camping at altitude.
All that being said using the correct type of stove in a large tent I can’t for the life of me see any reason to claim that downdrafted CO2 would be that much of a problem

 

[robin wood]

CO2 is a big killer of people camping, but mainly from the use of unsuitable stoves in tents, a report in the late 70s found that CO2 could build up in a 4-man tent to a dangerous level in just 30 minutes, even with a vent open. This affect is made worse when camping at altitude.
All that being said using the correct type of stove in a large tent I can’t for the life of me see any reason to claim that downdrafted CO2 would be that much of a problem

CO ? didn't think CO2 was much of a problem though I guess if you got enough of it it could begin to exclude O2? Got a link to that report?

 

[Mike Ameling]

More ... gloom and doom to protect their rears ... in his warnings/advice on stoves than real info.

The general rule on stove pipe height is to have it be at least 3 feet higher than the top of the nearest structure. So 3 feet higher than the peak of the yurt. That isn't too hard to accomplish.

But also keep in mind that the longer the stove pipe is, the more heat it loses through the pipe. And that heat loss will hamper the "draft" of the stove. Also, damping a stove down to "hold a fire overnight" will also cut down on the heat needed to maintain a good draft up the pipe.

And pipe diameter is also pretty important. A 3 inch diameter stovepipe needs lots of heat to maintain a draft, while a 6 inch diameter stovepipe almost creates its own draft without any heat. That's why a 6 inch diameter stovepipe is soooooo common. 8 inch pipe does even better, but it draws so well that it pulls out a lot more of the heat you want to keep inside your tent/yurt.

When I use a wood stove in my large wedge tent, I use 6 inch pipe - and have that pipe stick up around 2 feet above the peak (an 8 foot high ridge pole). It has worked very well for me for years. Yes, and occasional gust of wind from just the right direction can puff a little smoke back through the stove and into the tent, but it has happened very seldom for me.

The best suggestion I can give would be to NOT damp down any fire to "hold the fire overnight". This choakes back the fire starving it of oxygen - leading to lots more smoke. If you feel the need, just get up in the middle of the night and stoke the fire back up.

A friend and his wife spent a winter living in their tipi up in Minnesota. They installed a wood stove, and it worked well for them. (plus pallets/carpeting on the floor, an ozan, and insulation between the cover/liner) Temps often got down to 20 degrees below zero (F), and occasionally down to -40(F)! They usually never got up in the middle of the night to stoke the stove back up - just hunkering down in their blankets. But Jeff said that at 40 below zero (F) you ... hopped around a bunch ... in the morning as you got the fire started back up in the stove and got the tipi heated back up!

Every wood stove takes a bit of working experience - to get to know how it will work/operate in any particular set-up. In the end, it will just take a little experimentation to see in your yurt.

Also keep in mind that the very early versions of a yurt used an open firepit in the center, with the "smoke" going out that central hole in the roof!

The big problem some people have with using a stove in a tent for heat is doing so without venting the exhaust out of the tent. Those "exhaust" gasses are the problem. People try to use a white gas or butane stove/heater inside an enclosed tent - to cook, make tea, and add heat. That builds up those carbon monoxide and dioxide gasses inside the tent. It may look like it should be no problem, but those exhaust gasses build up quickly. A stove with a pipe to vent those exhaust gasses outside solves that problem. The other use of those "camping stoves" inside a tent is the problem that leads to those "camping death" statistics.

Just my humble thoughts to share. Take them as such.

Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[Tadpole]

CO ? didn't think CO2 was much of a problem though I guess if you got enough of it it could begin to exclude O2? Got a link to that report?

Nope sorry, It's something I read in a backpacking Magazine back in the early 80s It's always stuck in my mind 30 minutes in 4 people in a tent.


Edit to add My google skill come to the fore
CO (not sure if it is the same report or just a lookalike)
shame about my abiliy to remember. Carbon Monooxide.

 

[kin]

Sending a massive thankyou to everyone to wrote a reply to this thread. It was all SOOO helpful and amazing. We ordered our stove today and we've even since found some free flu pipe! It's the first time I've ever joined a forum and I'm sooo amazed and heartened by all the lovley helpful people who responded. THANKYOU! This is such a great website!
It's very exciting. We've been building a lovley wooden front door for the yurt and only have less than two weeks before we move. Someone mentioned you'd like to see pictures of our winter yurt experience, how could I best post them? on here or on a website?
Happy days everyone

 

[kin]

Well we lived in the yurt for almost a year, through many storms, no loo (a daily hole in the ground for this) and a basic shower. The stove was absolutely fine of course and the yurt happens to be the coziest place we've lived in. Following are some pictures of the yurt and view of the landscape just around it: