Rule of Three

[TLM]

Or you're potentially a psychopath.

Apparently just their emotional type response is different. The easiest explanation is still that you don't understand what is happening, followed by trained response.

I did not jump out of perfectly good airplanes just for the fun of it but did pack chutes for gliders when I used to fly. Some slightly harrowing out-of-field landings though. The time slowing effects were more than interesting.

When we used to teach women combative responses for self defence we used to intentionally get into their faces , within their personal space and use all the colourful swear words one would expect ( and more.. ) from an aggressor - the idea being to approach the tolerance trigger level of where one panics from nasty words and train that adrenal panic response out of their thought / reaction process.

You don't tell me, we did try that and for local ladies the main response was that "why did you swear at me, there is no reason", some carried a grudge for weeks. We reverted to just scaring them, seemed to work better for most. It is somewhat interesting that many men seem to learn to respond in a more rational way just by receiving hits in practice.

 

[TeeDee]

Apparently just their emotional type response is different. The easiest explanation is still that you don't understand what is happening, followed by trained response.

I did not jump out of perfectly good airplanes just for the fun of it but did pack chutes for gliders when I used to fly. Some slightly harrowing out-of-field landings though. The time slowing effects were more than interesting.


You don't tell me, we did try that and for local ladies the main response was that "why did you swear at me, there is no reason", some carried a grudge for weeks. We reverted to just scaring them, seemed to work better for most. It is somewhat interesting that many men seem to learn to respond in a more rational way just by receiving hits in practice.

Unfortunately words can be controlling if one lets them. Words clearly are not violence but if not inoculated against a A or B response of A) Fight/Flight or B) Freeze - if one lets B become the default it results in a continued cycle of control and submission.

After the intentional verbal abuse section we would have them go " ape " on us - trying to tap into a purely reptilian physical response.

Then after that , a hug it out to end the classes. Everything was controlled and for a reason in everyone's interest.

 

[Chris]

Unfortunately words can be controlling if one lets them. Words clearly are not violence but if not inoculated against a A or B response of A) Fight/Flight or B) Freeze - if one lets B become the default it results in a continued cycle of control and submission.

After the intentional verbal abuse section we would have them go " ape " on us - trying to tap into a purely reptilian physical response.

Then after that , a hug it out to end the classes. Everything was controlled and for a reason in everyone's interest.

Same reason military training is the way it is. Exposure therapy to stress, basically. Not only does the repetition of drills under stress ensure that you build the muscle memory to carry out the drill regardless of external stimulus, it also gets your body and mind used to operating effectively when it’s getting pumped full of adrenaline.

I’m sure that to an extent it also completely inoculates you to some stressors (bad words being a good example), which of course reduces the ‘stress overhead’ of being in situations with lots of potential stressors, but I think the really important thing is becoming familiar with what it’s like to be stressed, identify and acknowledge it, and then get on with it regardless. Which as you quite rightly say, requires practice.

 

[MartinK9]

Thats an interesting thought process and subdivision - and nicely is Three.....

1) People who are just less likely to panic.
Do you men the sort that are unphased , cool calm and collected? Or so distant from being aware they just arn't of much use anyway?



2) People who can be trained to follow a response
Can be done via stress inoculation and managing that adrenal dump from repeat drills and reinforcing positive response actions.




3) People who will always revert to instinct

Not sure what you mean by Instinct in context to this ? Isn't that just a repeat of 1????

All covered by a cup of tea and some chocolate hob nobs

 

[TLM]

Unfortunately words can be controlling if one lets them. Words clearly are not violence but if not inoculated against a A or B response of A) Fight/Flight or B) Freeze - if one lets B become the default it results in a continued cycle of control and submission.

After the intentional verbal abuse section we would have them go " ape " on us - trying to tap into a purely reptilian physical response.

We kind of had that idea but for some reason it did not work out, maybe some cultural reasons, I don't know. We ended up by just physically stressing them, up to six people continuously attacking from all directions (for safety only one at a time), it seemed to work for the freezing problem, which is very real. I'll admit that a verbal attack (that can take various forms, some quite subtle) can be different, maybe we should have got some some street goons to do it. Hmmm ... we did have one forty something lady who sometimes had the oddest reactions to even normal practice, one was always a bit on guard with her.

I agree the military's "trained response principle" is good but even that does not seem to work on all people, as always. Learning responses to life threatening things actually can help one in other areas if the principle is extended to other situations. Learning to control the adrenaline response must be included, otherwise it wipes you out after a while.

 

[HorseGuy]

Thats an interesting thought process and subdivision - and nicely is Three.....

1) People who are just less likely to panic.
Do you men the sort that are unphased , cool calm and collected? Or so distant from being aware they just arn't of much use anyway?



2) People who can be trained to follow a response
Can be done via stress inoculation and managing that adrenal dump from repeat drills and reinforcing positive response actions.




3) People who will always revert to instinct

Not sure what you mean by Instinct in context to this ? Isn't that just a repeat of 1????

There is a book written by someone who spent many years studying this subject in great detail (both the psychological thought patterns involved and the biological chemistry occurring in the brain and body). It is called Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why by Laurence Gonzales.

It is a good book. Informative, genuinely useful an potentially could even be life saving. I have a spare copy at home if you or anyone else would like to have it?

 

[TeeDee]

It

There is a book written by someone who spent many years studying this subject in great detail (both the psychological thought patterns involved and the biological chemistry occurring in the brain and body). It is called Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why by Laurence Gonzales.

It is a good book. Informative, genuinely useful an potentially could even be life saving. I have a spare copy at home if you or anyone else would like to have it?

Its a good book. Few books I can think of that go into the actual psychology of it all.

Also a generous offer.

 

[HorseGuy]

It

Its a good book. Few books I can think of that go into the actual psychology of it all.

Also a generous offer.

I thought it got a bit repetitive towards the end but that's not to discredit the information contained within which is good.

Anyway it's up for grabs for free if anyone wants it.

 

[Longstrider]

Or you're potentially a psychopath.

You say that as if it were a bad thing .....

 

[Billy-o]

There's Try, try, try again. Also, don't take the third light from a match.

I sometimes wonder how amny of these things are just variations on Christian trinity. (And, if even that is based in something older)

 

[Toddy]

Or you're potentially a psychopath.

How people react to certain stimulus can be either acclimatized too over time and having repetitive adrenal dumping trained out of them.

My first parachute jump I was less than cool , calm and collected but after doing a few handfuls more it becomes normalised.. no more panic. No more adrenal dump.

When we used to teach women combative responses for self defence we used to intentionally get into their faces , within their personal space and use all the colourful swear words one would expect ( and more.. ) from an aggressor - the idea being to approach the tolerance trigger level of where one panics from nasty words and train that adrenal panic response out of their thought / reaction process.

I think the response would say more about where and how they grew up than it does about the instructors or their teaching.

I met one of my old primary school teachers recently; she's now 86, still sharp, still has all her marbles. Reminiscing about the school, Miss W. said, "It was a hard school, it was an area with a lot of hard people, hard choices", another friend who has spent his working life in creating guidance and opportunities for disadvantage youngsters, breaking the cycle so to speak, said, "There was, and in some instances still is, a culture of predation', in the area. Aggression and violence was normalised.

Those of us who refused to be 'predated' are still (too) quick to anger, quick to respond physically, quick to spot and use the defensive weapon. It wasn't so long ago that one of my childhood friends who still lives near my sister in law, faced off an intruder with an iron. He's going to carry that scar for the rest of his life. A. said she was shaking afterwards, but at the time, she just handled it.....and the rest of the ladies in the company, well we just nodded in understanding and quiet agreement, told her she'd dealt with it properly, and every one of us will remember his name and who his family are.
Not every social issue is resolved with police involvement.

Realistically I know that that quick response is not really a good thing, not in a peaceful society, but for many that's their reality, and their reality says that women are not as strong as men, that if you don't defend your stance, then you'll not be on your feet to make it.

I don't think that fits any rule of three though; it's kind of a hardwired into some kind of 'twitch' response.
We/they don't rise to normal shouting, or someone losing the rag and being offensive, but there's an edge, and if that's caught, then they're dealing with things before they'be taken time to think through any consequencies.
Scream and shout at us and we'll ignore you, walk away, you are in no fit state to talk with.
Touch or threaten us with physical restraint or harm and that's another response entirely. It doesn't need to be a knife to be a weapon.

We were angry at the social abuse heaped upon the Dundee teenager recently, wondering where the adults were who ought to have been defending the girls, but we were laughing too, in total admiration of the lassie's gumption, good on her....and admitedly impressed by the strength of her knicker elastic... she managed a knife and an axe down her back waistband.
It resonated.

I think that says more about our society than we might like.

M

 

[TeeDee]

I think the response would say more about where and how they grew up than it does about the instructors or their teaching.



We were angry at the social abuse heaped upon the Dundee teenager recently, wondering where the adults were who ought to have been defending the girls, but we were laughing too, in total admiration of the lassie's gumption, good on her....and admitedly impressed by the strength of her knicker elastic... she managed a knife and an axe down her back waistband.
It resonated.

I think that says more about our society than we might like.

M

No disagreement here on the 1st comment - indeed whatever we have experienced in the past can definitely shape us as individuals. I'm not sure if it needs saying but i think most men have had a few verbal altercations and verbal escalations in their formulative years and are possibly somewhat familiar with stress response from confrontation as the pecking order and posturing of teenage males can often lead to ego escalation and 'testing' where one fits within the tribe.

That said some boys can and indeed do go through their growing years without rough housing and verbal hazing and its a bit of a rude shock when they grow into their man pants and meets a world that isn't cotton wool covered. I just think its less so.


We are but Human and Human is but an animal that pretends it is civilised and divine.

I'm definitely not taken away anything from female kind but I do think males maybe have experienced more verbal/ physical confrontations from other males than maybe women have experienced from other woman and men. Its a pretty old school notion that certain influences seem to want to in this modern age but I still think Good men will treat women differently - But I think what you are referring too and touching upon is how bad men treat whom ever they feel they can intimidate and bully ( Women and Men ) for whatever is their own motive.

If offering some sort of training to those that want to sign up for it feels helpful - I'm all for it.

Equally - I don't think offering a false reality based upon some wishful thinking and how normal conventional civilized society follows agreed rules is especially useful when one of the parties no longer follows those same rules.



I do think the Dundee teenager was acting out of a position of ( understandable ) fear.
And indeed Good for her that she acted for herself as opposed to waiting for others to intervene.