rehandling an old blade

[ilovemybed]

Hi all,
I posted this on BB but people seem to be a bit reluctant in responding so I thought maybe you chatterboxes might be able to suggest something

A pal of mine has sent me some pictures of an old knife he has. I'm afraid I have no idea of the history of it. Apparently the handle (now removed) was a manky old deer's foot. He has taken the foot off to begin rehandling and has been presented with the following (apologies for pics - I have tried to enhance them to show the important edges):

You will see that it appears to be a Stick tang (is that the correct name?) with a twist towards the end. I assume that the twist was to keep the deer's foot attached.

So, assuming that the blade has enough sentimental value, if not material value, to warrant rehandling properly, what would you all recommend? Is there a standard procedure for rehandling this kind of Tang? I've never seen it before - just the riveted tangs as popular on 'bushcraft' knives in their various guises. Is it simply a case of drilling a suitably sized hole in the handle material, then judiciously applying araldite and mating up?

I assume it's better to shape the handle before glueing so that you can start again if it goes wrong. Is that the right approach?


Looking forwards to your suggestions,
Cheers,
N.

 

[leon-1]

Hi Mate, that one is going to be a bit of a pig to re-handle with the twist in the tang (yes you are correct it is a stick tang).

I think he has a few options, firstly is use another animals foot (please ensur beastie is dead first and of suitable size), secondly take a block of wood and cut an oversized slot in it so that the tang will fit into it and the last is to have the tang straightened or hammered flat by a smith.

I would probably go with option 2 or 3.

With option 2 take you block of handle material and drill out a hole that the tang will just about fit into, use grains of wood / sawdust to mix with epoxy till you have a gloopy mess that you then fill the hole with (make sure you have filled the hole totally and allow the epoxy time to settle), once the epoxy has settled ram the tang into the hole and use a knife vice to hold it in place.

If you haven't already done it mark out the handle shape on the block of wood and start using hand tools to cut the handle to shape (with hand tools there is less likelyhood that you will make a mess of things and a better chance of a really good result).

If you have the blacksmith straighten the tang it may effect the temper of the blade, but you would rehandle it afterwards like any other stick tang knife, pretty much the same method as above cut a slot to tightly fit the tang fill the hole with resin and use a knife vice to hold the handle in place whilst the resin sets.

I hope that this will be of use to you and I am surprised that Martyn and the boys haven't got back to you yet

 

[Ogri the trog]

Not seen a tang like that before,
But that shouldn't put you off trying.
You pretty much have the jist of what to do - drill a hole and stick it on.
You can make the join prettier by making a bolster (might not be the right word) that will hide any epoxy that might run out of the blade end of the hole.
Or you could make the handle in two halves and epoxy it into place either side of the tang.

There are bound to be other sugestions as well

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[weekend_warrior]

You might want to have a look at the Brisa website Brisa Which not only has all the materials you might need, but also have a look at the work instructions - the Sammi knife method might be useful to you. It shows how a stick tang handle is built up and finished.

WW.

 

[torjusg]

Can't really offer you any help, but such an pretty and seemingly quite unique blade deserves a special handle. Doesn't it? I would never take it to the blacksmith as suggested above. The twist may make it flawed, but also adds to it's uniqueness.

Maybe you should go for a layered handle? Mixing antlers, skin and wood (or whatever you prefer. After you have slipped in the first pieces you may screw on the last ones, securing them all.

Torjus Gaaren

 

[oetzi]

It is probably this kind of knife, a "Jagdnicker":
http://www.roedter-messer.de/jagdnicker.htm
It would be easiest to shorten the tang and thus getting rid of the twist. Most important in fitting a handle in the scandinavian way is a very close fit at the first 5cm. A modified tang, glued into a tight fitting new handle, will hold better than the original design. Usually there was a ferrule up front, a piece of hollow stag fit into this and everything hold together at the end with a rivet.

 

[scanker]

The twist's very close to the end of the tang. I'd be tempted to cut it off with an angle grinder as close as you can. It won't remove that much of the tang and I'm fairly sure the Brusletto tangs are a lot shorter than what you'll be left with anyway.

Some threads that might help:
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/content/articles.php?action=show&showarticle=75
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5634
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5064

 

[jason01]

It is probably this kind of knife, a "Jagdnicker":
http://www.roedter-messer.de/jagdnicker.htm
It would be easiest to shorten the tang and thus getting rid of the twist. Most important in fitting a handle in the scandinavian way is a very close fit at the first 5cm. A modified tang, glued into a tight fitting new handle, will hold better than the original design. Usually there was a ferrule up front, a piece of hollow stag fit into this and everything hold together at the end with a rivet.

Great link Oetzi, I have one exactly like the Jagdnicker Linder that belonged to my father, we use it as a paper knife/envelope opener. The pommel on the end has been cut off though and in our family folklore the legend was that at one time it had a compartment at the end for holding poison Interesting to see another the same!

 

[oetzi]

The twist's very close to the end of the tang. I'd be tempted to cut it off with an angle grinder as close as you can. It won't remove that much of the tang and I'm fairly sure the Brusletto tangs are a lot shorter than what you'll be left with anyway.

Some threads that might help:
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/content/articles.php?action=show&showarticle=75
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5634
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5064

On shortening a tang:
Exept with Helle blades I simply fix the blade in the vice, tang potruding the to be shortend amount and give it a couple of whacks with a big hammer. Superfluous tang flies away and the rest is then ground flat

 

[G Obach]

you could just fit up a wood handle by drilling a hole in it........ then turn the knife upside down and pour a pewter end cap...

this has been done for some old timey knives.... for bolsters and end caps

I look for a tutorial..


Greg

from what i remember you use brown paper bag... wrap it around the knife handle and tape the bottom (tight)..... make sure the wood is dry or it may spray up steam and molten pewter if the wood is moist... (wear obvious safety gear)...
http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/tutorials/_pewter.html


something similar
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=turning&file=articles_603.shtml

 

[Nemisis]

One other option might be a stacked leather washer type handle the leather would be flexible enough to allow you to screw the lower pieces past the twist then other pieces higher up with the slots orientated to accommodate the screw part then a suitable end cap riveted on.
Dave.

 

[bogflogger]

I am not too sure that people on BB "Are reluctant to respond," You did actually get a reply from a very good Scandinavian Knifemaker. There are also good tutorials on how to do what you want to do, available on the front page of the BB website, plus stacks of infomation in the Scandi Forum. I would suggest that you try using the search function to narrow your search down, from the huge volume of infomation available on BB.

 

[pierre girard]

Hi all,
I posted this on BB but people seem to be a bit reluctant in responding so I thought maybe you chatterboxes might be able to suggest something



You will see that it appears to be a Stick tang (is that the correct name?) with a twist towards the end. I assume that the twist was to keep the deer's foot attached.

So, assuming that the blade has enough sentimental value, if not material value, to warrant rehandling properly, what would you all recommend? Is there a standard procedure for rehandling this kind of Tang? I've never seen it before - just the riveted tangs as popular on 'bushcraft' knives in their various guises. Is it simply a case of drilling a suitably sized hole in the handle material, then judiciously applying araldite and mating up?

I assume it's better to shape the handle before glueing so that you can start again if it goes wrong. Is that the right approach?


Looking forwards to your suggestions,
Cheers,
N.

Not telling you how to do this - just what I've done with similar blades (purists may shudder upon reading).

First off, I like the knife handle and "stick" tang to be tightened down. I clamp the blade inbetween two copper blocks (to diseminate heat) in the vice and weld on a bolt (head cut off). I'm a very good welder and am able to do a quick sound weld. I drill a hole through my handle (most often antler) and shape the hilt end to the tang and blade. I make a pommel from brass and drill and tap it to receive the threaded end of the bolt.

PG

 

[ilovemybed]

I am not too sure that people on BB "Are reluctant to respond," You did actually get a reply from a very good Scandinavian Knifemaker. There are also good tutorials on how to do what you want to do, available on the front page of the BB website, plus stacks of infomation in the Scandi Forum. I would suggest that you try using the search function to narrow your search down, from the huge volume of infomation available on BB.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. I had tried to search the BB forum but there are so many posts come up that I spent half an hour trying various iterations of "rehandle" "Stick Tang" etc. but getting nowhere. The twist caused me some concern as well and I was hoping to hear from someone who could shed some light on that. I'm the kind of person who likes to hear several opinions so one response, even if it is encouraging and well qualified, leaves me feeling like I need more.

Still, I knew you lot of gossiping fishwives would come up with the goods . The idea of stacked leather sounds a good one - means the twist in the tang can be kept, and I think the idea is to keep as much of the original as possible. Pierre - the idea of welding a bolt on the end to tighten down the handle also sounds good.

Cheers all! :You_Rock_

 

[Nemisis]

The only thing with the stacked leather idea is that you'd still need a bolster where the handle meets the blade. You would need to make a rough blank to see if that too can be screwed past the twist as its fit is critical to the stability of the finished handle
Dave.

 

[bogflogger]

No offence taken mate! You are right about search on BB, it IS all there, but can be elusive,as there is such a lot of infomation there!
Good luck with the new handle and let us see the finished work.

 

[ilovemybed]

No offence taken mate! You are right about search on BB, it IS all there, but can be elusive,as there is such a lot of infomation there!
Good luck with the new handle and let us see the finished work.

No worries. Sadly, it's my mate's blade so he's getting to play. He reads here but he tells me he's not allowed to register using his work computer, or something like that. Actually, he's probably just too lazy to register.

YOU HEAR ME RB? YOU LAZY PIE!

Anyway, perhaps he'll let me get involved, and we'll post the results here.

Regards,
N.

 

[pierre girard]

Pierre - the idea of welding a bolt on the end to tighten down the handle also sounds good.

Cheers all! :You_Rock_

The problem with this method is, of course, getting a good enough weld to do the job - while not loosing the temper to the blade.

PG

 

[Dave Barker]

The tang looks long. Why not just sut that bit off as close to the twist as possible and fit it normally. Stick tang knives don't HAVE to be peened at the end.