reccomendations for a knife???

vestlenning

Settler
Feb 12, 2015
717
76
Western Norway
Helle Temagami. Here's mine:

helle_temagami.jpg
 
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I think that you've missed out the critical information which is your skill level and exactly what you want from the knife.

I consider any copy of the Ray Mears' knife to be rather sad as with the original. I would take the Temagami every time. If you need to ask why then this is going to get long, detailed and tedious.

Here while mapping really tough country, whenever I get out of the truck I have bear-spray and a Mora. Then if the FJ goes over a cliff I'll walk home just fine.

Basically the bulletproof blade of correct design is the Falkniven H1 in original full non-laminated form. If you think that your idea of a knife could match this then you need to find a steel door and do some pull-ups with various knives. Most won't survive. Be sure of what you are doing - your knife most probably won’t survive this.

Experts get an H1 and then do considerable hand work on it because then it will do fine fuzzies well enough to light a fire under any conditions and spit wood well with a baton due to thicknesss. I have a highly worked A1 which will do the same as the H1. Do I get email from experts on it - no because it's too much work and too heavy. But yeah the original H1 highly worked appears to be a real winner.
 

humdrum_hostage

Full Member
Jul 19, 2014
771
2
Stradishall, Suffolk

I like that!

I think that you've missed out the critical information which is your skill level and exactly what you want from the knife.

I consider any copy of the Ray Mears' knife to be rather sad as with the original. I would take the Temagami every time. If you need to ask why then this is going to get long, detailed and tedious.

Here while mapping really tough country, whenever I get out of the truck I have bear-spray and a Mora. Then if the FJ goes over a cliff I'll walk home just fine.

Basically the bulletproof blade of correct design is the Falkniven H1 in original full non-laminated form. If you think that your idea of a knife could match this then you need to find a steel door and do some pull-ups with various knives. Most won't survive. Be sure of what you are doing - your knife most probably won’t survive this.

Experts get an H1 and then do considerable hand work on it because then it will do fine fuzzies well enough to light a fire under any conditions and spit wood well with a baton due to thicknesss. I have a highly worked A1 which will do the same as the H1. Do I get email from experts on it - no because it's too much work and too heavy. But yeah the original H1 highly worked appears to be a real winner.

My experience is pretty much zero but I would like to think my skill level is pretty good as I work with tools every day and carving with knives for about 4 years.

My main reason for wanting a new knife is that like any hobby/sport, you would like something that is aesthetically pleasing and does a whole range of things, probably more things than I would ever need it for but if it looks good and I have money burning a whole in my pocket then why not? Ideally I would like something that would chop a tree down to help me build a raft on a desert island, skin a small mammal that I trapped with a snare made of vines, help me fight off a wild beast in the dark of the night and use it as a "fork" to enjoy eating my catch over an open fire. But are any of these things ever going to happen.... probably not.
 
The trouble with cutting tools is that they are optimized for one sort of cutting or splitting - if they are to work really well - and a person is likely to run into trouble when they expect one to work well at everything.

I typically carry a Mora of 4 to 6" blade. This will cut anything which needs cutting from dressing fish or small game to making fuzzy sticks to get a fire lit. It can be used with a baton to split wood into thinner pieces for firewood or (carefully) with a baton to drop green wood poles for use in a camp. I've come to prefer the Mora for the simple reason that they are light, and work well for my purposes. The thicker H1 if properly set up will do all of that and is better for splitting wood with a baton because it is a better (wider) wedge. The problem is that it's heavier, and I always consider what else I can carry for the weight difference.
With the Temagami or the H1, you'll notice that the back of the blade or spine is pretty straight, and so the actual edge has more curvature to the point. The H1 - second from top in this pic, has a continuous curve of edge and that is an advantage in both skinning and in whittling very thin fuzzies for wet conditions.

100_5477.JPG


I'm glad that you brought up the raft idea which implies cutting across the grain of dry or seasoned wood. A more likely task is cutting across the grain of dry wood found in a log jam, for firewood. A knife and baton takes forever at this task compared to a chopping tool or saw. So if a person starts with a Mora for cutting and adds a folding or larger take down saw, then they can get a lot of work done at around the same weight as a heavy knife. A lot of people over the years have gone with the idea of adding a light hatchet or axe instead of the saw since it has the capability of both chopping and splitting. A long blade such as a machete will also work well now that we know how to profile them.
I've tried to calculate how much wood I've cut over the years with my take-down saws (wood here gets a bit big for a Bahco Laplander) - many cords. Here when trees fall across trails they're often under tension and so axes work better for clearing. Driving logging roads sounds easy, but with our heavy snow alders get bent over the road blocking it, but are still green and growing. Those are very dangerous to cut since they split and sections springboard or spring up - and a machete or golok is the safe tool to use on them. An axe or hatchet bites too deep and so they always springboard. Saws bind and also cause springboarding. So while I'd happily drop any of the standing saplings with a knife and baton in a couple of minutes since they are only 6-8" diameter saplings, a person would be in a lot of danger trying that with ones bent over the road. I use a heavy golok since around the bend are going to be another half dozen, and further even more. Yes I section them and clear the road.. It's just a few minutes with a heavy blade.

chops1.jpg


alldone.jpg


This is spring-boarding or splitting up in a very mild example. A person I know was blinded by cutting a bent alder stick.
sprboarding.jpg


I've sure sectioned and split lots of seasoned wood with a machete too, when making a fire for a brew up after trail clearing with the tool. Properly profiled a heavy machete or golok will cut through a 2x4 in a fraction of the chops that a heavy survival knife like the A1 would take, so it's a viable tool.

I probably haven't been very helpful, but I try to match the blade to the expected job. For small fires and cutting then better to have a light knife that's actually on my person. Since I do have to clear trails and logging roads then I carry long blades, axes and saws in the vehicle - and with me if I'm clearing trails. I tend to like light knives, but you may not. Nevertheless it's worth investing in a set of Moras of all blade lengths and shapes to see which one suits. Then make a good decision based on your experience with those. After that decide on saws axes or heavy blades depending on what you figure you'll need.
 
Great if it was some use! I had a couple of RM clones made by a famous maker. One was 3mm thick and worked well, but a friend's wife wanted it more than I did. The other was thicker and so with the narrow cutting bevel, it did not perform the tasks I wanted to do, as well as a Mora. The even thicker H1 and A1 Falknivens do work well, but it took a lot of work to convert them to proper Scandi, so in the case of the A1, the whole of the saber grind now goes to the edge, rather than a steep convex edge being put onto a saber grind. So those huge cutting bevels are what I've found I require in thick knives.
 
Probably would pick one of the new Lionsteel M5s

http://www.heinnie.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Lion+Steel+Molletta+M5+

Just like the look to them, over the TBS.

I guess it depends on where you are. It's so wet here for much of the time that anything with secondary bevels simply doesn't work for whittling fine enough fuzzies. In addition on all the factory knives I've taken the trouble to check, the primary bevels of such knives simply aren't flat enough to act as a proper wedge in batoning without having too much friction. It took me hours of hand work on odd afternoons while out watching for wildlife, over two years to get the A1 into shape. Even with the work put into it before the picture, it was still pretty poor as shown. The H1 took a lot less time. While I did a fast job with a belt grinder to get more acute convexed secondary bevels on the WM1 top and the F1 - third down - they still are not useful for fine fuzzies, and the poor grinds on the primary bevels mean that a Mora with a few hours' work will easily outclass them in all baton work. So they've sat in a drawer for a decade for reference, and until I get around to getting them properly set up. That's my mistake in underestimating the difficulty of proper profiling - and with work the knives should perform as well as the fixed ones which is excellent.

Anyway a lot is made of having a strong knife for the outdoors. Here unless it works in tough wet conditions, you might not have to worry about the longevity of the knife because it's definitely going to last longer than its owner. I wouldn't suggest that people believe me but test things for themselves with damp wood and some old kitchen knives etc. onto which they've put various grinds onto the soft steel.
Jared: I hope that you are seeing that I'm just pointing out something to consider. I remember when I left coastal Wales and people asking me what I'd miss - then they asked me what I wouldn't miss and I said the rain. Now I've lived in a place far wetter for 4 decades. You bet I watch "Hinterland" to see what Borth looks like now . Either I've had some brain damage or the spoken Welsh language on the show is quite different to what was spoken decades ago. Hopefully the latter.

Now I have questions: Vestlenning, How well does the stainless laminate in the Temagami hold up in using the knife in scraping? I found that with the Moras the Sandvik 12c27 did fine with casual scraping like making a small pile of scrapings to get fuzzies started but really degraded on doing something like scraping a hickory axe handle to shape it. The stainless degraded far more than the carbon steel, and took a lot more work to correct. I'm sure that my original Helle Viking was plain carbon steel - am I forgetting in my old age? I know - how could I give away my Helle knives???? Because with the curly birch handles they were really pretty for the younger girls in the family, and so were more appropriate gifts than Moras.
 

vestlenning

Settler
Feb 12, 2015
717
76
Western Norway
Now I have questions: Vestlenning, How well does the stainless laminate in the Temagami hold up in using the knife in scraping?

I have had a Helle Nying for 20+ years. It has got the same steel laminate blade - a great knife, but since it doesn't like scraping very much I decided that the Temagami will not be used this way either. Scraping is a job for my carbon Moras, as you say far easier to correct when dull.

I know - how could I give away my Helle knives????

Never to late to get another, how about a Nying? Here's mine:

helle_nying.jpg
 
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Always interesting to hear your opinions OJ.

Excellent! Yes those are opinions! They only become fact for you when you have tested them under any and all conditions you are likely to encounter.

For sure I've lit fires from natural tinder in both wet conditions here and cold conditions in Alberta (-40C- 50C). Oh yes I've spent many happy hours sitting down the garden in >-40C, properly dressed of course. Such is wanting to read books AND smoke. That's because in Alberta when it gets cold the air is usually still. Nevertheless you get tiny air movements which send showers of ice crystals from trees which drift like diamond smoke. It really is a winter wonderland. I am digressing. We've all seen the movie with suspense where Lars Falt has the recruit start a fire in the -30'sC. Wood freeze dries, so it's actually rather easy, but you only know that once you've experienced stuff.
Albertans are a little different. They celebrate when the temps go back under -40C and ice becomes slippery again. I'm guessing that we all know that sheer ice becomes just like concrete at below -40C. Here the grand-kids are celebrating that < -40C:
lyssazoeskate2008.jpg


Here on the coast, we will hopefully never see low temps as Alberta. Here we see half those temps, but our temperatures include wind and wind-chill. Here is what -21C looks like here:
snow.jpg



It's absolutely lethal unless you find cover from the wind.

I have had a Helle Nying for 20+ years. It has got the same steel laminate blade - a great knife, but since it doesn't like scraping very much I decided that the Temagami will not be used this way either. Scraping is a job for my carbon Moras, as you say far easier to correct when dull.

It is wonderful to hear a straight truthful answer!

Never to late to get another, how about a Nying? Here's mine

I think I need one for me first - to try it out. I can't lie, I know why it's wonderful! Everyone else will be looking at the short blade and handle and asking "Why?". That's the problem, You either know why or you don't know why because you've never handled such a thing.
And that is our problem here despite all all pretty pics and comments.
 

vestlenning

Settler
Feb 12, 2015
717
76
Western Norway
I have had a Helle Nying for 20+ years. It has got the same steel laminate blade - a great knife, but since it doesn't like scraping very much I decided that the Temagami will not be used this way either.

As I wrote it, it may seem that one can't scrape with a laminated Helle. Of course one can, only problem is that it takes more effort to get the hard edge back in shape than the edge of a carbon steel knife.

I can't lie, I know why it's wonderful! Everyone else will be looking at the short blade and handle and asking "Why?". That's the problem, You either know why or you don't know why because you've never handled such a thing. And that is our problem here despite all all pretty pics and comments.

So true, OldJimbo!
 
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Jared

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 8, 2005
3,532
729
51
Wales
I guess it depends on where you are. It's so wet here for much of the time that anything with secondary bevels simply doesn't work for whittling fine enough fuzzies. In addition on all the factory knives I've taken the trouble to check, the primary bevels of such knives simply aren't flat enough to act as a proper wedge in batoning without having too much friction. It took me hours of hand work on odd afternoons while out watching for wildlife, over two years to get the A1 into shape. Even with the work put into it before the picture, it was still pretty poor as shown. The H1 took a lot less time. While I did a fast job with a belt grinder to get more acute convexed secondary bevels on the WM1 top and the F1 - third down - they still are not useful for fine fuzzies, and the poor grinds on the primary bevels mean that a Mora with a few hours' work will easily outclass them in all baton work. So they've sat in a drawer for a decade for reference, and until I get around to getting them properly set up. That's my mistake in underestimating the difficulty of proper profiling - and with work the knives should perform as well as the fixed ones which is excellent.

Anyway a lot is made of having a strong knife for the outdoors. Here unless it works in tough wet conditions, you might not have to worry about the longevity of the knife because it's definitely going to last longer than its owner. I wouldn't suggest that people believe me but test things for themselves with damp wood and some old kitchen knives etc. onto which they've put various grinds onto the soft steel.
Jared: I hope that you are seeing that I'm just pointing out something to consider. I remember when I left coastal Wales and people asking me what I'd miss - then they asked me what I wouldn't miss and I said the rain. Now I've lived in a place far wetter for 4 decades. You bet I watch "Hinterland" to see what Borth looks like now . Either I've had some brain damage or the spoken Welsh language on the show is quite different to what was spoken decades ago. Hopefully the latter.

Now I have questions: Vestlenning, How well does the stainless laminate in the Temagami hold up in using the knife in scraping? I found that with the Moras the Sandvik 12c27 did fine with casual scraping like making a small pile of scrapings to get fuzzies started but really degraded on doing something like scraping a hickory axe handle to shape it. The stainless degraded far more than the carbon steel, and took a lot more work to correct. I'm sure that my original Helle Viking was plain carbon steel - am I forgetting in my old age? I know - how could I give away my Helle knives???? Because with the curly birch handles they were really pretty for the younger girls in the family, and so were more appropriate gifts than Moras.

I guess it depends where you draw the line. I wouldn't call the M5 a particularly large knife, I just pointed it out as it had similar stats (blade length & thickness) to the TBS and it popped upon Heinnie recently.

I agree there is a lot of hype about having a strong knife and when thickness get out to 5mm+ things are getting silly. Even a pocket knife could manage most. Think it was SargeFaria (Woodsman School) recently that said he taught his bushcraft course just using a SAK for 95% of the tasks to the surprise of his students.

Though I'm more accustomed to using billhooks, and a yorkshire billhook is my particular favourite for doing everything from hedgelaying to felling smaller diameter trees. Which is probably heavier (3lbs+) than most smaller bushcraft axes.
 

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