When I did bronze and silver DoE many years ago, my cooking kit was a small Primus paraffin stove, army mess tins and an enamel mug. The weather turned nasty, so three of us cooked inside the tent while Snowdonia did its best to bring the tent down
Reccomded Stove for DoE?
- Thread starter Tengu
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Thanks Matt. The reference to Scouts was a friend of hers who joined up wanting to learn what her Dad had learned (as did I) and was gutted that she wasn't allowed to do most of the stuff we chat about - locking knives up in a box - sheesh.
I completely understand the implications of the litigation culture on such organisations but, sadly, many parents I think feel the same as me now that the whole purpose of challenge and learning, trust and responsibility has been cut out of the organisation - undermining their entire purpose. I bitterly regret these changes but, now that its impossible for organisations to offer the opportunities for children to show that they are trustworthy, as they dare not trust them with even a meths stove, it falls back to parents to provide the opportunities.
My problem is that not everything can be rendered completely safe - nor indeed should it be - because to make it "safe" it has to be made "boring". Indeed if a child is never exposed to a risk of injury, they will never learn personal responsibility and trust. I suspect that most county kids who still drive farm vehicles, shoot shotguns, own dogs and manage beasts are far more sensible, responsible, mature and trustworthy than the children who are denied opportunities to be "at risk".
I understand that this is a consequence of legislation and not the intention of the organisations - it really does sadden me though
Red
I completely understand the implications of the litigation culture on such organisations but, sadly, many parents I think feel the same as me now that the whole purpose of challenge and learning, trust and responsibility has been cut out of the organisation - undermining their entire purpose. I bitterly regret these changes but, now that its impossible for organisations to offer the opportunities for children to show that they are trustworthy, as they dare not trust them with even a meths stove, it falls back to parents to provide the opportunities.
My problem is that not everything can be rendered completely safe - nor indeed should it be - because to make it "safe" it has to be made "boring". Indeed if a child is never exposed to a risk of injury, they will never learn personal responsibility and trust. I suspect that most county kids who still drive farm vehicles, shoot shotguns, own dogs and manage beasts are far more sensible, responsible, mature and trustworthy than the children who are denied opportunities to be "at risk".
I understand that this is a consequence of legislation and not the intention of the organisations - it really does sadden me though
Red
I see your point, but fact is for D of E I took rat pack food (as did most others), with the remainder taking the likes of pot noodles and 'add boiling water and simmer for 8 minutes' pasta snacks. I agree if you want to really 'cook' a trangia is a better solution, but as for what meals I can 'cook' in a mug, in the last four days I've had sausage and beans, corned beef hash, pork casserole, treacle pudding, hamburger and beans, beef stew plus a couple more I can't think of off the top of my head. All rat pack, all tasting very nice and all tasting a LOT better than anything I'd attempt if I tried cooking properly. Says nothing about my cooking skills I know, but it's true The main problem I have with the trangias or rather with the heavy kit we were supplied with and expected to carry is that it's really REALLY hard work to cart it all around, much of it was unneccesary, and it left many of those who did it with the impression that backpacking is little more than an endurance test. If the aim is to allow them to both experience AND enjoy the outdoors that's a problem. The other thing to bear in mind is that these people aren't adults. Heavy kit means that their kit weight to body weight ratio goes through the roof.
Quick calculation:
A.
Trangia 25 cookset (1290g)
Small bottle of meths (400g reasonable?)
Lighter (13g)
TOTAL 1703g
B.
8 Hexy blocks wrapped in foil (four rat pack hot meals and four hot drinks per person)(246g)
Snow peak 900 cooking mug x 2 (103g x 2 = 206g)
Lighter (13g)
TOTAL 465g
That's immediately over 1.2kg less for one of them (assuming they're doing the usual of one has the tent, one has the cooker), and 1.2kg makes a fair bit of difference over a couple days' walking.
Each to their own but that would be my first choice if I did it again today
Simon - thanks for the EDIP explanation!
I completely ban pot noodles and the stipulation by county is that they have to be a two course hot meal and balanced. I know its ony a night but the idea is to try and introduce good practice now so that if they decided to take things further they can adjust and advance on the basics. Rehydrating poor quality food (I'm not talking about rat packs here) isn't encouraged. The meals still tend to be quite processed but they're usually more advanced than just boiling water.
If you consider that common sense in some of these youngsters is still developing and most of the what they know is for the streets not the countryside, hexy blocks are usually out - think about them in use in dry conditions, without proper supervision you'll risk woodland fires, even at our local scout camp when we're using it we allow them fires but teach them about the purpose of a fire and why a massive bonfire is all but useless, you then look across to the poorly supervised groups and see them throwing whole pallets on, kids like fire but don't have much in the way of self-control, or any experience of what to do if it does get away from them.
Trangias are definatly heavier, but if you're only carrying them for 25km over two days, the weight of them isn't really an issue, as Rick said, they're the safest most reliable self contained cooking system that the kids can use, and the weight payoff is worth the piece of mind.
If you consider that common sense in some of these youngsters is still developing and most of the what they know is for the streets not the countryside, hexy blocks are usually out - think about them in use in dry conditions, without proper supervision you'll risk woodland fires, even at our local scout camp when we're using it we allow them fires but teach them about the purpose of a fire and why a massive bonfire is all but useless, you then look across to the poorly supervised groups and see them throwing whole pallets on, kids like fire but don't have much in the way of self-control, or any experience of what to do if it does get away from them.
Trangias are definatly heavier, but if you're only carrying them for 25km over two days, the weight of them isn't really an issue, as Rick said, they're the safest most reliable self contained cooking system that the kids can use, and the weight payoff is worth the piece of mind.
I thought the point of DofE was to give them the experience (or an experience?) - or has it changed since I did it 25 years ago?
Well I bet they didn't have "The Accident Group" or "Claims Direct" then..... I'm surprised they even let them walk the hills these days without signing a waiver:bluThinki
I did all my DoE's with one of those gas folding stoves. any an aluminium mess tin. it's a much lighter and b less bulky and finally c prety much idiot proof
http://www.millets.co.uk/Camping/Cooking/Bleuet®-270-Micro-Stove/product/094499.aspx
or the other option if you really like boil in the bags :bluThinki you could get a joblot of heater packs off ebay.
I've just finished a written presentation on kit for my gold so if anyone wants Ideas of good kits, bad kit, how to lighten and de-bulk your bag drop me a PM and I can send you some info I collected (its in a heeouge powerpoint presentaion as notes though)
Ben
http://www.millets.co.uk/Camping/Cooking/Bleuet®-270-Micro-Stove/product/094499.aspx
or the other option if you really like boil in the bags :bluThinki you could get a joblot of heater packs off ebay.
I've just finished a written presentation on kit for my gold so if anyone wants Ideas of good kits, bad kit, how to lighten and de-bulk your bag drop me a PM and I can send you some info I collected (its in a heeouge powerpoint presentaion as notes though)
Ben
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