RAB Ridge Master and Single skin tents

[Trig]

Been doing a bit of browsing around looking for a new tent, and just looking for some thoughts. (For over a week now actually. Should of just bought the RAB when i first seen it, as now i cant decide on anything )

I currently use a Vango Tempest 200 which is a great, but its a little heavy for my liking as it is 2.9kg according to vango. Throw in my bit heavier pegs and im over 3kg id reckon.
Ive had a look at the Akto, Terra nova and various other lightweight tents/bivis.
However the one i am most interested in is the RAB Ridge Master (formerly Integral Designs Nestor i think).

Its a double Hooped Bivi made of eVent fabric.
http://rab.uk.com/products/equipment/bivis-and-shelter/ridge-master.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iNRgOY8ue4

Weight at 1200g according to RAB, though i have seen it vary from 963grams upwards depending where i look.
It is the small pack size and low weight that appeals to me. Also the fact that bivis are a bit lower profile than tents and can be pitched on a bit smaller footprint.(And a bit stronger in windy weather due to being lower?)

From what reviews i can find they seem to be well rated and not have much condensation, especially if the door is left open a little.

There isnt much space for gear storage,cooking or even just changing clothes in rain etc, but i would probably be carrying a small lightweight tarp anyway which i could pitch over the door using walking poles, giving me some extra space, so that isnt a concern really.

I also thought that it would be a bit warmer than a larger tent, due to having a smaller interior space to heat.But from what ive read it will be colder due to not having a layer to break the wind, and any heat inside fading much quicker due to this.

I have no experience of single skin tents though, or bivis, so im looking for opinions on the bivi in general, and how it would perform in winter conditions, with condesation and heat loss.

Cheers

 

[Shewie]

I've used a TN Saturn in the colder months and stayed toasty and dry throughout, I expect the Ridge Master will perform equally as well.

Similar weights too with the Saturn coming in at 1.1kg

The Saturn is huge, plenty of room to store kit inside if that's what you want, it's even big enough to take an Exped downmat 7DLX which isn't small. Although with a winter rated down bag and the Exped mat it does bring you up quite close to the ceiling. Some pics of my Saturn in this thread, a nice small package alongside a 1L water bottle.

I've never had condensation issues with a goretex bag, one which I have suffered badly with is the Snugpak Stratosphere. If you plan on using a tarp with your bivvy why not get something a bit lighter, without poles and lighter fabric. If you choose not to take a tarp a hooped bivvy might be better, a soggy pack and boots can be stuffed into bin liners and left outside for the night if you prefer.

 

[ex-member BareThrills]

I found hooped bivvys just too claustophobic as my main shelter and didnt like the lack of living space / having to carry a tarp. My lightweight setup is a tarp tent similar to the mld trailstar (500g) with a bora gear bivvy bag (230g). Has room to live as well as sleep and a shed load lighter than a hooped bivvy. Temperature for me is never something i consider to be related to the shelter. The biggest single factor is ensuring the ground pad works well and stops you leaking cold from below. I use an exped down UL 7 pad although im considering a thermarest xtherm to shave a little weight.

 

[rg598]

You will get condensation with all single wall tents. You are right that they will retain heat better than a large tent, but because of that, when it is cold outside, you will get condensation. Some tents deal with it better than others. I think the bigger problem you will have with the bivi style tent you linked to is that it is very small and it is heavy for what it is. If you get trapped by a storm in the shelter, there is little you can do besides sleep. You can not cook inside or do anything else.

The Ridge Master is listed as being 43 oz. Here is another option: I use the Go Lite Shangri-La 3. I only use the flysheet, without the nest. That makes it into a single wall, floor-less tent. I pitch it using my trekking poles. The tent weighs 23.8 oz. If I was to use the pole that came with the tent rather than my trekking poles, it would weigh 35 oz. It is a much larger shelter, you can cook inside, you can sit up inside, store all of your gear, etc, and it is still lighter than the Ridge Master.

Shangri-La 3 Review: http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2013/02/golite-shangri-la-3-tent-review.html
Pitching the Shangri-La 3 with trekking poles: http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2013/07/using-trekking-poles-to-pitch-golite.html
Shangri-La 3 used in winter: http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2013/02/trip-report-echo-lake-22313-22413.html
Another example of winter use: http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2013/02/trip-report-mt-washington-failed-solo.html
Cooking inside the tent (You are not supposed to do that): http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2012/12/trip-report-kaaterskill-high-peak_3572.html

You will get condensation. The problem is made better if you leave a gap at the bottom of the tent so air can circulate, but if you get snowed in, you will get condensation none the less. It is not a big deal with this type of shelter because the condensation just runs down the sides and into the ground without ever touching any of your gear, or simply freezes to the walls.

If you want a freestanding shelter, the one that I have seen used the most is the Black Diamond Firstlight. It can weigh as little as 45 oz.

 

[PDA1]

Luxe minipeak at1.3 kilos would meet your spec. Or for a tunnel, wild Country Zephros at UKP 140 looks a sturdy, good value buy.

 

[Trig]

I've never had condensation issues with a goretex bag, one which I have suffered badly with is the Snugpak Stratosphere. If you plan on using a tarp with your bivvy why not get something a bit lighter, without poles and lighter fabric. If you choose not to take a tarp a hooped bivvy might be better, a soggy pack and boots can be stuffed into bin liners and left outside for the night if you prefer.

I have read that the eVent fabric is supposedly better than Goretex for breathability/condensation, so im hoping it should be ok.The reviews for the RM dont seem to have any problems with it either.

I did have a look at a normal bivvy bag+tarp combo, but tbh i would rather be enclosed. Dont like the thought of all sorts crawling over me, and then the dreaded midge Ive seen the net liners that can be strung up, but then thats adding more weight again and getting back to the 1kilo+ mark probably.

The tarp i would be using along with a hooped bivvy is a micro tarp, 140g or so. Its not a major weight and gives me just a bit more cover when camped, also during the day for a lunchbreak in rain etc. Its optional however, and would probably only be carried during winter/spring months, But other than that i could just use the bivvy itself with a drysack or bin liners as you say for boots etc outside.

I found hooped bivvys just too claustophobic as my main shelter and didnt like the lack of living space / having to carry a tarp. My lightweight setup is a tarp tent similar to the mld trailstar (500g) with a bora gear bivvy bag (230g). Has room to live as well as sleep and a shed load lighter than a hooped bivvy. Temperature for me is never something i consider to be related to the shelter. The biggest single factor is ensuring the ground pad works well and stops you leaking cold from below. I use an exped down UL 7 pad although im considering a thermarest xtherm to shave a little weight.

Reminds me i need to have a look at some of the thermarest type mats,as Im using a north ridge inflatable that cost £30 or so. Its quite thin and the valve is a bit dodgy sometimes, should probably replace it before i wake up sore and cold some morning

-Snipped-

Luxe minipeak at1.3 kilos would meet your spec. Or for a tunnel, wild Country Zephros at UKP 140 looks a sturdy, good value buy.

Thanks for the links RG, spent a while on there reading some of your trips, good stuff.

Its a good lightweight tent the way you use it, and cheap too. However i would need to carry the nest which then ups the weight to 1.9kg according to your site. (after some google measurement conversions )
Its still not bad for the size of the shelter, but im also looking for something a bit more low down which a hooped bivi, or even lightweight tent, is more suitable for.
Also had a look at the Sil-mini peak, but again its a bit higher than bivi etc.


Think im pretty much decided on buying the Rab Ridge master now. Did a bit of looking at videos/reviews etc of the Golites and sil-mini peaks, and was almost coverted but kept getting drawn back to the Ridge Master.Though i believe they could be my next purchase if ever needed

Thanks for the replys anyway !

 

[petrochemicals]

as everyone else has said, its going to be cramped with no headroom. At 1kg there are bigger tents and lighter bivvy bags.

My further thoughs are that I have an eventlite bivvy also and if the fabric treatment is compromised , dirty or worn off, it doesn't breathe and also wets out and you can get seepage of water, so I found myself carrying a bottle of spray on nickwax in my bag too.

Some sort of permanent waterproof fabric with inbuilt ventilation is always best. And old fashioned goretex, not the new generation stuff.

 

[Trig]

My further thoughs are that I have an eventlite bivvy also and if the fabric treatment is compromised , dirty or worn off, it doesn't breathe and also wets out and you can get seepage of water, so I found myself carrying a bottle of spray on nickwax in my bag too.

i had a browse for more on this, though i only found clothing related threads. Plenty of stuff about the fabric needing cleaned and rewaterproofed as you say, though maybe only twice a year depending if you use it regularly.
How often do you find you need to reproof it?

Too late now though, as i took the plunge on wednesday and ordered one. Was almost in tears at spending money, but when i feel the weight compared to my previous, its worth it. Also quite a bit more space inside it than i thought there would be. Room for my black lab at my feet i reckon, if i could get him to go in. Dont think ill be trying it in a confined space however. First (and last so far) time i took him out, i was awoken at 5.30 am by him trying to hump me and the sleeping bag.

Build quality seems pretty good, though will be next week or so before i get out with it probably.

Might buy some Nikwax just incase

 

[ex-member BareThrills]

borah gear do a bivy with build in bug net for a couple of hundred grams. Matt did a look at one in this thread

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99092&highlight=trailstar

Add a trailstar or similar and you will be at 750g for a full on shelter and bivvy

Matt also did a nice look at the trailstar. you can be nice and enclosed in one too

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99693

BTW i just took delivery of a thermarest xtherm. Its the regular and 400g. Superb bit of gear in my opinion

 

[Imagedude]

I used a single skin Rab Latok Ultra bivi tent in Finland this year. It's bombproof but the condensation was horrendous despite me leaving the door open. This type of tent needs at least a light wind to circulate air, if there's no wind you will get a large buildup of frost on the inside.

 

[Shewie]

That's a sweet looking tent Bob

I'm tempted to check the price but I won't

 

[Imagedude]

Looks nice but it's flawed. You need to wrap the poles with tiny velcro straps to keep the poles in the right place. This requires you to remove your gloves. At -32 it took me 30 minutes to erect the tent due to constantly having to warm my fingers. I solved the problem by using a re-useable zip tie to hold the poles together at the crossover point.

 

[Shewie]

Gotcha, that sounds like an after thought on Rabs part, did you ever contact them about it?

I wonder if you could replace the velcro with those c-shaped clips which snap onto poles?

 

[ADz-1983]

Definitely the Sil MiniPeak or the Zephyros 1

 

[petrochemicals]

I found it wore off pretty quick around any part that was rubbed, got dirty, got hot etc. When the fabric was wet it was worst, so really 5 wet nights and it would need spraying again. As a guess the ridge master door would wear quickly through rubbing, and the ridge would wear as hot condensation rises. Good news on your new tent.

Edit. That reminds me, in sub zero conditions its as good as polythene sheeting for brethability.