Question on lightweight gear for a 12 day trek (TGO Challenge)

[Greg]

Hello Folks,

I've talked three of my mates into doing the TGO Challenge which for those who don't know is a 180 mile (on average) trek from the West coast to the East coast of Scotland.
The trek will take part next May sometime.

What I would like in the way of advice from you kind people is what sort of lightweight kit would you recommend. This is not a bushcraft question so no hobo stoves etc, just advice on Sleeping systems (not hammocks), good lightweight high calorie food (I'm talking in the region of 5000 calories a day, enough for 2-3 days max) and good boots.
I have a good lightweight but strong bergen I just need to get the right kit so I don't kill myself during the trek due to too heavy equipment.

Also if anyone has actually done this trek or a similar long distance jaunt any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Heavier equipment like, Shelter, Cooking equipment, fuel & water will be shared out between the 4 of us.

Thanks
Greg

 

[Glen]

Backpackinglight.co.uk did some good podcasts on the TGO, including their diary of taking part, which would probably be well worth you listening too, as they interview a range of people during their route and discuss kit with them. Must admit made me wish I could get the time off and go, hope you enjoy it.

Diary http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/page87.asp

Other TGO related stuff http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/page86.asp

 

[Greg]

Backpackinglight.co.uk did some good podcasts on the TGO, including their diary of taking part, which would probably be well worth you listening too, as they interview a range of people during their route and discuss kit with them. Must admit made me wish I could get the time off and go, hope you enjoy it.

Diary http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/page87.asp

Other TGO related stuff http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/page86.asp

Thanks Glen!

Anymore for anymore, keep the good advice coming!

 

[Wilderbeast]

I think my advice would simply be, think about EVERYTHING you put in your bag and say to yourself "do i REALLY need this" if the answer is no, don't take it.............go on a few 3-4 day walks and you'll quickly figure out what simply isn't worth carrying, and probably drop your carrying load by half!!

cheers
Wilderbeast

 

[Greg]

I think my advice would simply be, think about EVERYTHING you put in your bag and say to yourself "do i REALLY need this" if the answer is no, don't take it.............go on a few 3-4 day walks and you'll quickly figure out what simply isn't worth carrying, and probably drop your carrying load by half!!

cheers
Wilderbeast

Cheers for the reply mate, I should have mentioned I have done quite a few multi-week trips but have always had to put up with heavy military gear due to crappy squaddie wages!
I have better funding now so am able to splash out a bit more on decent kit!

 

[Toddy]

Do you need to carry everything ? Like water ? or does your route take you near enough farm houses and the like, or known to be safe enough just to be boiled water sources, that you could arrange to refill bottles ?

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Greg]

Do you need to carry everything ? Like water ? or does your route take you near enough farm houses and the like, or known to be safe enough just to be boiled water sources, that you could arrange to refill bottles ?

cheers,
Toddy

Good question! I would think we won't need to carry more than maybe a couple of days worth at the most, but to be honest we haven't even looked at the route yet! But I would say that we would definately pass by plenty of sites where we could gather food supplies & water on the way!

 

[Podcast Bob]

Hi Greg, I'm doing it this May with my wife Rose and I think you'll find ASH from this forum coming too this year.

Are you talking about doing it this year or next? If you are going this year you will have had all the advice already I'm guessing. If you are talking next year, then the podcasts I've done over on backpackinglight.co.uk and the second series on theoutdoorsstation.co.uk will give you much more idea.

Of course I'll be doing another series on this trip.

The advice is KISS on everything and try and get at least 2 uses out of ever item. The first year I did it, my packed weighed just over 20 kg, as I carried all my food with me. Even though I trained har din the gym for 6 months, it almost killed me, and thanks to the fabulous weather, heavy boots, and not planning ahead, my feet were a complete mess.

You want to get you base weight of your pack down to 8 to 10kg. Then when you add fuel, food, water and the gear you wear, it'll come back up to 12 - 15kg. There are people who do it with packs weighing less than 5kg, but they are very experienced with lightweight gear and choose a route to suit what the gear will handle.

In simple terms, this is what people generally aim for with their gear.
Tent 1 - 2kg .. sleeping bag, mat, liner bag 1 - 1.2kg .. Cooking system cooker, one pot/mug, plate, spork, gas or meths < 500gms .. Rucksack 50-70 ltrs < 1.5kg, one spare set of base layer clothes < 700 gms .. Insulation layer + down layer < 700 gms and then your normal waterproofs, hat, gloves etc. Hydration a platypus and drink as you go, Footwear is either leather boots 2kg or Inov type trainers at 300gms.

The luxuries are the things which blow up the weight, cameras, batteries, phones, gps, toys, whisky etc.

Food is the killer and 5 day parcel can weigh 3-5kg. We use a food dehydrator which save a vast amount of space and weight. However the chocolate, nuts and sweets add it back again. Well you've got to have some fun eh?

5000 calories a day is really something to carry let alone eat? The more you carry the more you will burn calories. Travel lighter, burn less and the food you need will weigh less too. If you choose your route well, you can visit a shop or bar every 2 or 3 days. I know some people who manage to do it virtually every day!

It is a social trip as well as an adventure, and you make of it what you want. Which is why it is so unique. There's nothing else like it in the world!

 

[Greg]

P-Bob your an absolute star, that is exactly the general info I was after, good luck with the crossing in May mate, I'll be doing it next year.
What gear are you taking then? If you don't mind me asking that is!
Cheers

Hi Greg, I'm doing it this May with my wife Rose and I think you'll find ASH from this forum coming too this year.

Are you talking about doing it this year or next? If you are going this year you will have had all the advice already I'm guessing. If you are talking next year, then the podcasts I've done over on backpackinglight.co.uk and the second series on theoutdoorsstation.co.uk will give you much more idea.

Of course I'll be doing another series on this trip.

The advice is KISS on everything and try and get at least 2 uses out of ever item. The first year I did it, my packed weighed just over 20 kg, as I carried all my food with me. Even though I trained har din the gym for 6 months, it almost killed me, and thanks to the fabulous weather, heavy boots, and not planning ahead, my feet were a complete mess.

You want to get you base weight of your pack down to 8 to 10kg. Then when you add fuel, food, water and the gear you wear, it'll come back up to 12 - 15kg. There are people who do it with packs weighing less than 5kg, but they are very experienced with lightweight gear and choose a route to suit what the gear will handle.

In simple terms, this is what people generally aim for with their gear.
Tent 1 - 2kg .. sleeping bag, mat, liner bag 1 - 1.2kg .. Cooking system cooker, one pot/mug, plate, spork, gas or meths < 500gms .. Rucksack 50-70 ltrs < 1.5kg, one spare set of base layer clothes < 700 gms .. Insulation layer + down layer < 700 gms and then your normal waterproofs, hat, gloves etc. Hydration a platypus and drink as you go, Footwear is either leather boots 2kg or Inov type trainers at 300gms.

The luxuries are the things which blow up the weight, cameras, batteries, phones, gps, toys, whisky etc.

Food is the killer and 5 day parcel can weigh 3-5kg. We use a food dehydrator which save a vast amount of space and weight. However the chocolate, nuts and sweets add it back again. Well you've got to have some fun eh?

5000 calories a day is really something to carry let alone eat? The more you carry the more you will burn calories. Travel lighter, burn less and the food you need will weigh less too. If you choose your route well, you can visit a shop or bar every 2 or 3 days. I know some people who manage to do it virtually every day!

It is a social trip as well as an adventure, and you make of it what you want. Which is why it is so unique. There's nothing else like it in the world!

 

[rg598]

The biggest cuts you can make are in the backpack, tent and sleeping bag. Since you are already set on the bag, you should look at your sleeping system. If you are willing to go without a tent, with just a bivi, you will save a lot of weight. Make sure your sleeping bag is down, not synthetic. It will be much lighter, just make sure to keep it dry. A good general site is http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/index.html. Also have a look at http://www.backpacking.net/ultralit.html.

The next thing you should cut is your cooking system. Make sure your pots are aluminum or titanium, and only one per person. A good site for lightweight cooking gear is http://www.minibulldesign.com/. The site also has a blog, where you can find a lot of info.

With respect to food, I carry rice (Goya), or instant mashed potatoes. Both are fast to make (saves on fuel), and are high in calories. Meat of any king is too heavy for the amount of calories it provides. Starches and oil are your best bet. A good site for cooking is http://www.freezerbagcooking.com/.

 

[Glen]

I wouldn't go the bivi route for that length of time at the time of the year that far north. Too many opportunities to have nowhere to cook or change with, the potential rain and finding at least one of you wet or damp for a day or 2 in the cold.

For very little more weight than 4 bivivs 2 Shangri-La 3s with inner nests would be just over a kilo each, plenty of room for gear and you could even squeeze 3 in 1 ( hang it from a branch and reclaim the space taken by the centre pole ) with the remaining person and all the gear in the other, should someone really need a night alone.
Shelter pole and stakes around 1300g each , nest 1050g each lighweight tarp 500g

If you add a lightweight tarp and can pitch them door facing door with the tarp strung between them you've got a rather grand set up for about 1-1.5Kg each.

If any of you are using ponchos as waterproofs your even better off, especially if there's more than one and they can fix together.

 

[eskimo]

Hi Greg, I did the great outdoors challenge last year and thought I was been super efficient by taking a Terra nova Saturn. However when the skys open up and your cold and tired from a days walking you really want something a little bigger to get changed in etc.

If there's 4 of you I would recomend buying 2 x lightweight 2 man tents, and splitting these between the 4 of you. You can get a good tent under 3kg for less than £100 and by splitting your only taking around 1500gms each. Also in as macho way I can say this, by buddying up in a tent you increase the warmth so makes for a more comfortable sleep. The Vango Spectre 200 is a great tent around 2.5kg and costs around £60.

I use a MSR miniworks waterfilter, it's virtually bombproof and saves lugging 3 or 4 litres of water around at one time. Get a Nalgene wide mouth bottle or a MSR dromedary bag and it screws straight on.

Alpkit do a great titanium pan or if your feeling flush MSR do the Titan range, very light and bombproof.

When I was at advanced basecamp last year the Primus Omnifuel stove was a legend. Lights everytime and burns hotter than most other stoves I have ever used. I tend to favor cooking for 2 at a time so a 1.5 litre pot is great and I tend to use foods which only require boiling water and can be eaten from the bag to save washing up etc.

SIS and Powerbar make great supplements you can take in addition to meals and SIS do a great gel (approx 99p each) which releases carbs slowly.

Hope this helps

 

[Greg]

So far guys the info has been great, I am slowly but surely building a bigger picture of what I need and more importantly what I don't!
Please keep the info coming, believe me when I say it is much appreciated!

 

[Podcast Bob]

I remembered after I switched off last night that one particular 'challenger' had gathered together a few years worth of diaries on one page for people to use as ideas.

Two of mine are on there, the first when I went heavyweight and the second when I took a tarp.

http://www.doodlecat.com/tgo/tgoselect.html

You can manage with a tarp, except at public campsites when it is a bit awkward, however I've done it and I've seen several others do it. There are enough bothies on route, that if you are soaked a night or two drying out for free is possible.

And carrying water is really pointless once you get out of the low land areas, as any stream provides fantastic pure water.

We're using the new 180gm Travel Tap this year, which is the update of the Aquagear Filter. As you can remove the filter it can be a normal water bottle one minute or a full filtration unit the next.

But I think you'll find the diaries interesting reading. All different type of people, with a different approach, but sharing their stories all the same.

 

[VirusKiller]

Greg, if you are interested in lightweight, I strongly recommend that you read a Ray Jardine book. This one is superb is superb and very readable, but out of print I think: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...mp=1634&creative=6738&creativeASIN=0963235931

His latest book covers similar material, apparently, but with less of a preachy "I'm right" angle to it: http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/Trail-Life/index.htm

 

[Lasse]

Since you're with 4 men you can cut a lot of weight by sharing as much gear as possible. Just a quick list of what I might get if I wanted to go very light and have enough funds:

tent: 2.8kg all in, 0.7kg pp
--> Hilleberg Nallo 4: +lightweight +roomy enough +quality +weatherproof -price
You could cut the Hilleberg's weight a bit more by leaving the inner tent at home and only using a ground sheet. I use a Nallo 3 when I go camping with 2 mates, no problem to fit ourselves (lengths ranging from 174 to 190cm) and our gear.

sleeping mat: 0.2kg: foam mat: very light so if you can sleep comfy enough on one and you can carry it in or on your backpack it's probably the best choice

sleeping bag: 0.7kg: down bag: Valandre Mirage (-5°C)
You might be able to get a lighter bag, depending on how warm you sleep and how cold it gets at night out there (no clue)
No way I'd be bringing a liner for the bag, if you wear a light tshirt, some lightweight socks and underwear you should be fine imho. (preferably bamboo or a wool blend -> anti bacterial)

Cooking set: 0kg: none =)
Warm food is pure luxury, just bring a lot of super dark bread with nuts etc and other super high calorie food. If you pass a town you can always buy some hot food if you like. If possible, get as much food from the towns you pass by as possible. You might be able to send your high calorie food to post offices along the road to pick it up out there. Good planning will save a lot of weight.
In case you really want to carry a cooking set, carry max 2 pans for the 4 of you. By the time the second eater has cooked his food, the first one usually doesn't need his plate anymore... Same goes for the plastic sporks (lighter than titanium ones, I like my LightMyFire version), although you might like the feeling of having your own. And don't forget to plan fuel usage and buying fuel along the way carefully, it can help you win quite a bit of grams.

That should bring your basic weight per person down to max 1.6kg + rucksack.
If the weight on your back is light, you won't need heavy shoes but they should last you long enough, I'd recommend some light Lowa trekking shoes (<1kg). You usually don't need waterproof trousers, quick drying is preferred though. Base layers should be anti bacterial so you don't have to carry more than 1 set for those 12 days, depending on temperature wool or bamboo, and not too heavy since you might like to wear only that during the day if the weather allows. Mid layer should be warm, but don't over do it, you don't need to carry any warm clothing in the evening if you get in your sleeping bag soon enough. A shell jacket should be wind proof and either waterproof or water repellent and quick drying, if your shell jacket is not breathable enough it'll be hell wearing it when active so I prefer the water repellent one unless the weather is really wet.
You shouldn't really consider the weight when it comes down to your First Aid Kit, but don't overdo it. You might also like to carry 1 or 2 mobile phones (turned off and packed in a waterproof bag) to call for a helicopter if needed...
There's a lot more I could think of, but no matter what, don't forget to cut your toothbrush in half!

Enjoy the trip !

 

[Jay.in.the.woods]

hi greg, i've got a Vaude taurus ultralight 2 man tent for sale. when packed it's 47 x 15cm and weighs 1.80kg. it has never been used but has been setup indoors to check it. the tent cost &#163;220 new but i'll take &#163;110 for it including delivery. pm me if your interested.

 

[Greg]

Cheers Jay, PM sent