Puppy looks ill

[Paul_B]

Our 15 week old puppy has been moving slowly, lethargic, struggling to jump up to the couch and off her food a bit. She eats a bit then leaves most of it. She's normally the type to eat everything in a matter of seconds. It's amazing how quickly she eats.

We gave her a worming tablet a few days back, maybe Friday. And yesterday evening or Sunday evening we used a flea treatment Drontal. It was for a dog 2kg to 10kg. I used it all. Could that be the issue? She's had too much of a dose? The worming tablet was given to dose of half a tablet as per weight instructions.

Do you think it's the flea treatment? It's the first one we've given.

If not what should we do? Give it time to see if she perks up or go to vet's? We're not insured for her yet. Breeders cover ran out and we haven't sorted out other cover. That's not an issue, we'd obviously take the hit on vet's fees but I wonder whether to wait and see what happens?

 

[Nice65]

You read my post on lungworms?

Not saying it's that, in fact it's unlikely, but worth considering. My two have never had flea treatment. If we were getting bitten then I would, but it's never happened and I only see them very rarely on the dogs.

Worming I do very occasionally also. You say you used Drontal for fleas? It's a wormer, not flea treatment. Honestly, don't just fling chemicals at your dog if they're not needed, it's not even flea season.

If I ever phone my dad, a retired vet, about anything to do with the dogs, his first question is "Is she eating?". If your dog is as fanatical about food as mine, then appetite loss is an indication that something is wrong.

 

[Janne]

Has she been given all the recommended vaccinations?

 

[santaman2000]

Off her feed can be serious. Especially in a young pup. I'd see the vet if it doesn't improve in a day.

 

[leaky5]

Check with the breeder if the mother has had any recent infections, we had a similar issue with our pup when she was young. A quick call to the breeder confirmed the
mother had had a virus (giardia IIRC) that could be transmitted to the pups, vets acted on that news with drugs and fixed the problem

 

[Paul_B]

You read my post on lungworms?

Not saying it's that, in fact it's unlikely, but worth considering. My two have never had flea treatment. If we were getting bitten then I would, but it's never happened and I only see them very rarely on the dogs.

Worming I do very occasionally also. You say you used Drontal for fleas? It's a wormer, not flea treatment. Honestly, don't just fling chemicals at your dog if they're not needed, it's not even flea season.

If I ever phone my dad, a retired vet, about anything to do with the dogs, his first question is "Is she eating?". If your dog is as fanatical about food as mine, then appetite loss is an indication that something is wrong.

Sorry, your right. We have Drontal for worms and another controlled flea treatment (controlled in that they had to take our details when we bought it). All in the two or three days timescale.

Off her food, lethargic and whilst she's not panting hard now she's just not herself. Hang dog looks best describe her. Sitting with her head down but she'll look up to you when you pass her. She can't get the energy to jump onto chairs to sleep next to you. We have to lift her. Well it took her a week before she managed that trick at 10 weeks and a lot smaller than she is now.

If it's lungworm then the so called vet strength wormer should sort it out I guess.

My partner thinks it's similar but worse than the first time we wormed her. That lasted a couple of days at most. It's been that long that she's been off her food. She takes a mouthful or two then walks away. When she does something good and we congratulate her she doesn't sit up in her usual "where's my treat?" pose. Not interested. She is eating a little not much at all.

The last time we thought it was the food because we didn't know what the breeder sent us home with so we had to find something and mix it in. She didn't like it so we found the food from the breeder and she ate again with gusto. But it was also after giving her the vet provided wormer.

I'm guessing that was the exact dose for her weight being a sealed packet containing a round tablet and was from the vet. We gave her half a bone shaped tablet as per packet instructions. It could have been too much or a lot more than the vet's tablet. So the reaction (if that's what it is) would be stronger I guess.

I think we might be visiting the vet. See what tonight is like. Thursday evening is puppy socialisation at the local vet's. If she's better and at don't need the vet I'll talk to the vet nurse running it for advice.

I reckon we'll get told it's a reaction to the tablet / too high a dose. So we'll end up paying vet appointment fees and not much more. BTW how much are vet appointment fees if there's no treatment needed typically?

 

[Paul_B]

We don't know for sure but the mother was fit as a fiddle when we saw her. Pushing the pup out of the way for attention. She was very out of condition though. It was a mistake litter from the season after another litter though so it took a bit out of her. A mistake because he left the dog with his sister who had a pedigree of the same breed while he had a week's holiday. He didn't think she was in season but she was. His plan was to wait at least a year before putting her to her last litter (one less than the KC limit for registered litters, he's not a puppy farm breeder).

So the mother was fit and healthy but out of condition coat (needed stripping and it was a bit thin too). The breeder was the son of a KC assured breeder and he took advice about breeding from his mum. In fact he pretty much implied it was his mum looking after the breeding but he just looked after the dog/homed it. Just in this case it wasn't planned like the other litter.

 

[Stew]

I would suggest talking to a vet or if not happy another vet rather than a random bunch of bushcrafters on a forum.

 

[Paul_B]

Actually I find the experience of some dog owning posters on here does have value. Yes only a vet will know what's happening but experienced dog owners will know about what they've been through with their dogs. Things like reaction to tablets and treatments they've probably seen before.

At the end of the day I don't rely on forum advice to treat my dog but it does help to inform my own decisions on what actions to take. Ultimate advice is the vet's but it doesn't always end up needing the vet.

I liken it to a new parent rushing their baby to the doctor's / A&E with the first signs of a fever. Experienced parents (one or more kids produced) would just Calpol the kid and other experientially led actions. And I'm sure you're aware that there's plenty of forums for parents around and plenty of requests for advice on Ill children being sought. Doesn't mean they'll not see the doctor when needed. The difference being we're the same species as our kids (although I believe in teenage years there's often doubt over that).

 

[beachlover]

I would suggest talking to a vet or if not happy another vet rather than a random bunch of bushcrafters on a forum.

Spot on Stew.
I've owned and worked dogs all my life.
I regard most veterinary practices with almost the same distain as politicians, bankers and lawyers, but by your own admission Paul, the little dog isn't right and a quick trip to the vet will probably cost you less than a ton for your peace of mind and the welfare of the pup. Far better than asking random folks here, who even if they may have owned a dog, aren't vets, haven't seen your dog and in many ways aren't any more informed on veterinary medicine than the bloke next to you in the local shop.
Being a dog owner brings responsibilities, so get the poor mite to a vet.

 

[widu13]

Vet straight away.

We lost our bouncy Springer to an non specific immune disorder with the same symptoms. She was kept alive with steroids for 6 weeks which was absolutely horrific for her. She went from well to a CBC of 9 in 2 days at the start. We did the wrong thing keeping her with us. One vet said the kindest thing would be to put her down and the next day another said she could be saved...the Mrs grabbed at that and I admit I was hopeful too.

 

[beachlover]

Vet straight away.

We lost our bouncy Springer to an non specific immune disorder with the same symptoms. She was kept alive with steroids for 6 weeks which was absolutely horrific for her. She went from well to a CBC of 9 in 2 days at the start. We did the wrong thing keeping her with us. One vet said the kindest thing would be to put her down and the next day another said she could be saved...the Mrs grabbed at that and I admit I was hopeful too.

I hope you've kept that first vet in your address book. Vets like that are worth their weight in gold, whereas I find the second often typify the worst kind who use emotional blackmail and false hope to wring every last penny out of the owners or their insurance companies regardless of the suffering endured by the animal and their owners.

 

[widu13]

Literally when we phoned to say the dog was ill, the receptionist's first question was "Is she insured?" Followed by "Who with" and then, "Which plan is she on" We then spoke about getting her booked in. It was a chain Vets- PetDoctors.

 

[beachlover]

Literally when we phoned to say the dog was ill, the receptionist's first question was "Is she insured?" Followed by "Who with" and then, "Which plan is she on" We then spoke about getting her booked in. It was a chain Vets- PetDoctors.

I took my last dog of then15 years into the vet (not pet doctors, but an Island practice with a similar philosophy) for some routine meds, the vet suggested I bring her back in a week so she could check to see if she had dementia! When I'd expressed my surprise with something close to "for God's sake" and sarcastically wanted to know that if so diagnosed, would she have to come in weekly to be sat on a commode in a large room with other demented dogs and be force fed photos and movies of old kennels and bones she had known as a puppy while being made to listen to Radio Two as the staff smoked fags outside, I was told the consultation / attempted wallet plundering was at an end.
My one great consolation was that a couple of months ago, she had a little "wobble" on her favourite beach walk, came home, went to her bed and never woke up, dying peacefully at the age of seventeen and without the need to pay a bean for that dreadful last vet's visit and the parasitic faux sympathy.

 

[santaman2000]

Vet straight away.

We lost our bouncy Springer to an non specific immune disorder with the same symptoms. She was kept alive with steroids for 6 weeks which was absolutely horrific for her. She went from well to a CBC of 9 in 2 days at the start. We did the wrong thing keeping her with us. One vet said the kindest thing would be to put her down and the next day another said she could be saved...the Mrs grabbed at that and I admit I was hopeful too.

It's a tough decision to make and no matter how often you've been through it, nor how old the dog is, it never gets easier. But at the end of the day, it's part and parcel of owning a dog and for me at least, the privilege of their company and trust made it all worth the pain.

 

[KenThis]

If puppy isn't eating properly for 2/3 meals it has to be a vet for me.
Also if in any doubt it has to be the vet.
I've read loads of information on puppies eating/pooping/lethargy etc. But until you've got more experience of actually dealing with stuff then the vet is the best approach.
Unfortunately experience comes with probably being a little too cautious in the first instance.
I think I'm lucky as my Vet also has a Border Terrier and knows this is my first dog and has been incredibly helpful by phone on the two occasions I've needed advice.

 

[tankie]

Vet now , worry about the bill later ,if it's contagious you don't want to spread it.
Dogs have to well off colour before it shows ,so you must do the best for your animal

 

[Paul_B]

Well I got home from work tonight having not been in contact with my partner for an update from the morning. The dog was still not right this morning. However I got home and got inside the outer door. Immediately there was a scratching and jumping up at the inner door. Absolutely going crazy to get to me was the puppy! Since then she's been jumping up at me, biting me, playing with me and taking the pi$$ too in the way she does.

She's not 100% but even at 90% she's crazy. Right now she's decided sleep is not needed. She went from being asleep and dreaming lying on the couch next to me, to being completely awake and wanting to play. Play means licking me, biting me and generally getting in my face. She woke up and just sat up looking directly into my face, then the biting.
Right now she's gone off totally annoyed disgusted with my lack of playing. Into the other room for a noisy, squeaky toy which she then brought to my feet and squeaked for all she could while checking me out with a sideways look. She wants me to try and get it from her. I'll have to because it'll wake up or young son. That'll be a chase around the ground floor.

Yep! I think she's better. Funny how they get better very quickly. Must have been something she ate disagreed with her. It's now passed through and she's back to normal. Or it was a reaction to the worming or flea treatment.

Thanks for everyone's advice. It's very hard to know what's best when it's your first dog. Experience takes time and I guess I'm just learning about our dog. I probably hit the panic button a bit.

Puppy socialisation classes at the vet around the corner. We'll probably ask them about what could have been the problem and what we should do if something like that happens again. The classes are only partly about socialisation there's an element of training owners on caring for their dog. They give good advice and answer our questions too.

 

[daveO]

I'd still have a chat with your vet in case the meds you're giving her are causing a bad reaction. They should be able to advise over the phone.

 

[Janne]

One of our dogs loved squeky toys.
Try this: lie down on the floor, and take her toy in your mouth, and make it squeak.
Watch her reaction.