Unfortunately, it's just not that simple. Take it easy. Hope all prep and look after as many as you can, because whatever you think, we live in very uncertain times.
Preparing for troubled times ahead - Advice on what is needed.....
- Thread starter gra_farmer
- Start date
- Status
Unfortunately, moving isn't an option for some people. If you decide to move, where are you going that will be safer and better? Also, being the "new guy", who do you think the baddies will rob or attack first?
With online banking, my power (electricity), satellite TV, and Internet connection stayed on so, I was set for the niceties of life. A dairy goat would have been nice though along with some chickens or ducks but, pets that run free out here have killed them all.
Global travelers in South America were blamed for the COVID crisis and the hysteria that followed even though they were in South America for months prior to the start of COVID. No way I would want to deal with that as a stranger in unknown territory.
In my case, during the start of COVID, I locked my front gate and loaded my rifle for 3 months. Not one trip into town or one "guest" or visitor. The cows and I did just fine too on our 40 acres in Texas.
Y'know ? most of society just wants to get on with their lives.
The only neighbours with guns are the ones who shoot for the pot, or who cull vermin, and there are very few of those around.
Guns don't exist for most of society here.
We tholed lockdown just fine. No one starved, no one died because they couldn't get medical care, well not once folks realised the horror that had been inflicted on the old folks homes.
I'm not being facetious, because people did die, and still are dying, because of the damned disease, but despite some empty supermarket shelves we still had more food than the country dealt with for years during WW11.
Most folks observed lock down restrictions with good grace. Society didn't break down, immc ?
Those who had prepped ahead managed more comfortably than those who hadn't but even so, life just went on.
Would we manage again, if it all broke out with some other lurgy?
Been there, done that, everyone's more experienced.
Would we manage without power ? without whatever ?
Tbh, I think it'd be more of
If you really want to help, especially in our very urbanised isles, then don't inflame a situation. Put something into the local foodbank trolleys, keep on fair terms with your neighbours, look after your health and your home/plot/woods and get on and enjoy life.
M
The only neighbours with guns are the ones who shoot for the pot, or who cull vermin, and there are very few of those around.
Guns don't exist for most of society here.
We tholed lockdown just fine. No one starved, no one died because they couldn't get medical care, well not once folks realised the horror that had been inflicted on the old folks homes.
I'm not being facetious, because people did die, and still are dying, because of the damned disease, but despite some empty supermarket shelves we still had more food than the country dealt with for years during WW11.
Most folks observed lock down restrictions with good grace. Society didn't break down, immc ?
Those who had prepped ahead managed more comfortably than those who hadn't but even so, life just went on.
Would we manage again, if it all broke out with some other lurgy?
Been there, done that, everyone's more experienced.
Would we manage without power ? without whatever ?
Tbh, I think it'd be more of
If you really want to help, especially in our very urbanised isles, then don't inflame a situation. Put something into the local foodbank trolleys, keep on fair terms with your neighbours, look after your health and your home/plot/woods and get on and enjoy life.
M
I realize this is mainly a UK-focused forum, but in my case I look at things like the Los Angeles riots after Rodney King and similar incidents for a glimpse into what would come in the future.
The Korean store owners who were the focus of black mobs at the time that stood on their store rooftops with rifles and shotguns largely came through with only minor negative impacts. Relatively few stores were burned down due to arson or looted and similar things, and very few documented lethal force events were noted beyond scattering buckshot on asphalt to deter evildoers.
Of course, everyone has to do what fits best with their own morals and local laws (or suffer and deal with those ramifications).
In a more generic "troubled times ahead" sort of preparation, I would look to the largely BLM-oriented riots that burned out largely minority business districts in the name of "racial justice". Personally, I never really understood closing down the stores that serve the needs of those you claim to serve through arson and looting leaving the elderly without a pharmacy or grocery store. And, that sort of activity doesn't fix whatever real or perceived racial injustice those people claim to be supporting and protecting.
The closest analogy for the EU region I see is the "hooliganism" following "stag parties" and various soccer matches. Then there are issues with immigration and largely political protests in various nations. With the large percentages of people living in urban centers, the option to "leave" or go somewhere else are pretty limited so, sheltering in place is the only viable option I see for most.
The Korean store owners who were the focus of black mobs at the time that stood on their store rooftops with rifles and shotguns largely came through with only minor negative impacts. Relatively few stores were burned down due to arson or looted and similar things, and very few documented lethal force events were noted beyond scattering buckshot on asphalt to deter evildoers.
Of course, everyone has to do what fits best with their own morals and local laws (or suffer and deal with those ramifications).
In a more generic "troubled times ahead" sort of preparation, I would look to the largely BLM-oriented riots that burned out largely minority business districts in the name of "racial justice". Personally, I never really understood closing down the stores that serve the needs of those you claim to serve through arson and looting leaving the elderly without a pharmacy or grocery store. And, that sort of activity doesn't fix whatever real or perceived racial injustice those people claim to be supporting and protecting.
The closest analogy for the EU region I see is the "hooliganism" following "stag parties" and various soccer matches. Then there are issues with immigration and largely political protests in various nations. With the large percentages of people living in urban centers, the option to "leave" or go somewhere else are pretty limited so, sheltering in place is the only viable option I see for most.
Didnt break down but Dad had to eat a different pasta sauce...
@sidpost
Throwing caution to the wind, I'd agree with your sentiments. The UK doesn't have so much of the same racial divisions (they do however exist), but more like the root cause in the US, we do have class divisions. In the event of a total breakdown of society or even a pocket of societal breakdown, leaving the cities would be everyone's best bet, the ne'er do wells and hoodied hooligans will be running riot in their new found playground. The downside I can see is that by my nature I am a protector and the thought of leaving some of my neighbours to fend for themselves against feral hoodied bottom holes on their bicycles doesn't sit well.
Throwing caution to the wind, I'd agree with your sentiments. The UK doesn't have so much of the same racial divisions (they do however exist), but more like the root cause in the US, we do have class divisions. In the event of a total breakdown of society or even a pocket of societal breakdown, leaving the cities would be everyone's best bet, the ne'er do wells and hoodied hooligans will be running riot in their new found playground. The downside I can see is that by my nature I am a protector and the thought of leaving some of my neighbours to fend for themselves against feral hoodied bottom holes on their bicycles doesn't sit well.
I would suggest that it maybe fairer to say ideological division rather than purely racial.
Netflix & home deliveries of fast food kept the masses tranquilized
To go where ?
In a societal collapse... anywhere but cities...
I'm talking about total breakdown and anarchy.. not simply "oh we've had a power cut, everyone leave now"..
I think you've been watching too much American Gotham
Cities are divided into areas, each area is 'supported' by council resources, by infrastructure, everything from access to hospitals and to schools to water supplies, rubbish removal and sewerage.
On the surface a city may appear to be one homogenous whole, but it's not, it's a group of areas that service their population and that interact with each other and support and are umbrella'd by the structure of the city. Business' of all varieties are an intrinsic part of that structure.
Removing people from their own area just causes huge displacement issues as they still need shelter, food, water, power, hospitals, schools, etc.,
There is flex within the individual areas, but none could take on the burden of the entirety of another.
Society is a multi-stranded thing. From the rural, who still use urban resources.....the vast majority do not live 'self sufficient' lifestyles. They don't grow their own wool and linen and spin and weave and sew their own clothing, for instance, but take that right across the board, from mining and smelting metal to making every dish in the house.....to those who are happily settled in the suburbs with access to both towns and countryside.
None of those people want to see society shatter, break down.
I don't think that's the topic of this thread though.
I think the topic is what can be done, practically, to mitigate any future issues that might crop up.
Just now there are two big issues.
One is the cost of fuel, and the second is the inflation causing prices to rise on everything from basic staples, to the stuff every household needs to replace.
There is also a third issue though, and that is the underlying one of a disease that's still killing people and how we must still be aware that it might evolve into something less infectious but that it might evolve into something very much more severe.
Something that you can do is to have an arrangement with a set of family/friends/likeminded people that if something goes wrong in one location, those people can come for an extended stay with one of the others. Having already discussed the eventualities and sorted the practicalities, you’re more likely for it to work out without (too many) upset feelings.
You can have it purely as a backup for an unlikely event, or you can have a more active arrangement for say if you live in a floodprone area - then maybe have your counterparts over for a summer holiday stay regularly and they won’t mind when you come knocking on their door every other winter…
You can have it purely as a backup for an unlikely event, or you can have a more active arrangement for say if you live in a floodprone area - then maybe have your counterparts over for a summer holiday stay regularly and they won’t mind when you come knocking on their door every other winter…
There’s also a lot of stashes of various ”stuff” around at all levels for us to manage quite a long time without really needing to make new things. I’m thinking of the amount of spare clothes most people already have, the sizes of crafters’ yarn/wool/fabric stashes, the vast amount of plates and bowl etc in all the charity shops dotted around the place and so on.I think you've been watching too much American Gotham
Cities are divided into areas, each area is 'supported' by council resources, by infrastructure, everything from access to hospitals and to schools to water supplies, rubbish removal and sewerage.
On the surface a city may appear to be one homogenous whole, but it's not, it's a group of areas that service their population and that interact with each other and support and are umbrella'd by the structure of the city. Business' of all varieties are an intrinsic part of that structure.
Removing people from their own area just causes huge displacement issues as they still need shelter, food, water, power, hospitals, schools, etc.,
There is flex within the individual areas, but none could take on the burden of the entirety of another.
Society is a multi-stranded thing. From the rural, who still use urban resources.....the vast majority do not live 'self sufficient' lifestyles. They don't grow their own wool and linen and spin and weave and sew their own clothing, for instance, but take that right across the board, from mining and smelting metal to making every dish in the house.....to those who are happily settled in the suburbs with access to both towns and countryside.
None of those people want to see society shatter, break down.
I don't think that's the topic of this thread though.
I think the topic is what can be done, practically, to mitigate any future issues that might crop up.
Just now there are two big issues.
One is the cost of fuel, and the second is the inflation causing prices to rise on everything from basic staples, to the stuff every household needs to replace.
There is also a third issue though, and that is the underlying one of a disease that's still killing people and how we must still be aware that it might evolve into something less infectious but that it might evolve into something very much more severe.
We will of course always have things that need to get hold of regularly and that is hard/impossible to store enough of long term for most people (food, water, fuel, medicine, electricity etc), but if we, as a society, can divert some of the efforts from the transport of less needed products to more needed items, then we have a much better chance to get through any rough patch.
When it comes to emergent infectious diseases, I think one of the most important things is to learn from the past, while still keeping in mind that the next new thing will most likely NOT behave in the same way as the previous ones.
@Toddy
Can't overly agree or disagree. I think it depends what the scenario is and what the city is. In Devon we have 2 cities, Exeter and Plymouth, both of these are effectively large towns more than cities, by comparison to most of the UK cities anyway. I think if we're facing some sort of supply chain delay, lockdown, covid19 mk2, then yes, you're right, it's best to maintain a cool head and carry on as we did before but this time (as you said) with experience. However with the ebb and flow of this thread a lot of the recent comments are talking about defending ones property, taking up arms, chaos, confusion etc... in which case, extricating oneself from a more densely populated area where there is 99.9% reliance on infrastructure, would be the best course of action...in my opinion... at least as a country boy anyway - which is where I'm originally from.
I know how them things work out there in t'countryside, I've got my webbed toes to prove it!
Can't overly agree or disagree. I think it depends what the scenario is and what the city is. In Devon we have 2 cities, Exeter and Plymouth, both of these are effectively large towns more than cities, by comparison to most of the UK cities anyway. I think if we're facing some sort of supply chain delay, lockdown, covid19 mk2, then yes, you're right, it's best to maintain a cool head and carry on as we did before but this time (as you said) with experience. However with the ebb and flow of this thread a lot of the recent comments are talking about defending ones property, taking up arms, chaos, confusion etc... in which case, extricating oneself from a more densely populated area where there is 99.9% reliance on infrastructure, would be the best course of action...in my opinion... at least as a country boy anyway - which is where I'm originally from.
I know how them things work out there in t'countryside, I've got my webbed toes to prove it!
Like-minded folks looking out for each other is what makes society work but, that is also the genesis of Gang Life in the USA today as I see it. It can also lead to vigilantism and "group think" leading to bad outcomes so, it can also be a slippery slope to civil order breakdown too.
Success to me really depends on what is normal in everyday life. "Tight" communities like the Mormons over here in Utah are an example of people who genuinely look out and care for each other.
Where my sister lives in Oklahoma is totally different where she hasn't met or spoken to her next door neighbors in years. Being anonymous in a city or neighborhood is a real problem for many today, whether a side effect of social media and cellphones or a more basic civil society breakdown, your best bet will still be heading out of the larger urban centers where 'groups' will take advantage of individuals. Those 'singles' on the move though will still need to be able to protect themselves from evildoers and discriminate between those who will help and those looking to do evil things.
And again, why would people want to become part of the problem instead of part of the solution ?
Millenia of human warfare and it's aftermath clearly shows that society re-established itself. Cities repair and repopulate.
Why not cut out the issue in the first place and just everyone calm down ?
We know that with good social structure that it worked in wartime, and it worked during plague, and there were no riots, no widespread wide scale destruction (well apart from enemy bombs, but even there folks pulled together and got on with things).
Why should it not work again ?
By all means discuss natural disaster, disease, power cuts, strikes and port blockages, high inflation, fuel shortages, etc., and how best to be prepared to deal with them.
That's relevant and of interest; but I think gang warfare, riots/ armed insurrection belong in Hollywood.
Millenia of human warfare and it's aftermath clearly shows that society re-established itself. Cities repair and repopulate.
Why not cut out the issue in the first place and just everyone calm down ?
We know that with good social structure that it worked in wartime, and it worked during plague, and there were no riots, no widespread wide scale destruction (well apart from enemy bombs, but even there folks pulled together and got on with things).
Why should it not work again ?
By all means discuss natural disaster, disease, power cuts, strikes and port blockages, high inflation, fuel shortages, etc., and how best to be prepared to deal with them.
That's relevant and of interest; but I think gang warfare, riots/ armed insurrection belong in Hollywood.
Fair statement. Today, IDEOLOGICAL differences and RELIGIOUS differences are a very large factor. In the past in the USA, generally, the worst was mainly due to RACIAL differences (KKK, Chinese, Irish, BLM, various Gangs, etc.) with other types being present but not as large as RACIAL differences which historically were absolutely terrible for the most part.
Regarding what I see with Religious issues were prevalent with the "Troubles" in the UK (which involved more than just religion) and various factions in the MidEast. Ideological differences seem to be significant in parts of the EU and I see it daily in the USA. In the USA, it used to be about the 'silent majority' but, today the silent majority seems to have left and joined one of the two divisive extremes. Racial issues seem to be present and growing in the Pacific Rim nations and areas close by. Africa has some of this or all of this in various parts.
It would be nice if people didn't have to 'relearn' history which also applies to the conflicts in China and Ukraine. In terms of "really troubled times ahead", I see China with its military and 'big brother' build-ups focused on the Uyghurs and Nepal, with war pending in Taiwan, and a rising middle class in China threatening the Communist party's control. Then you have Russian expansion and a total disregard for war crimes with Ukraine being just the start I'm afraid. Appeasement in Crimea or previous world wars didn't work so, I see military hostility being a near-term reality in other parts of the world as well. With Iran muckraking in various parts of the world, conflicts in various parts of the world with various terror groups (ISIS and related) are going to inflict problems on people and nations that are likely to lead to significant military conflicts whether Israel and its enemies, or various groups like Turkey and the Kurds, or any number of conflicts growing in Africa and Asia. And then you have Nukes and tensions with minor life loss so far between Pakistan-India-China that have the possibility of blowing back on Europe, North America, and other parts of the world with everything from nuclear effects to the next COVID-style event (China is collecting genomic information thru theft for a reason and it is not to develop a cure for diabetes or cancer!
Tribal thinking is ingrained somewhere in our biology. We are social beings and desire to belong to and be valued by our chosen groups. The problem is that in the age of the internet, a group can be a very abstract and global thing. And then you have certain players playing on our biological imperatives and sowing division between groups in a way that is rather silly.
I am not worried -at all- that there will be violence or trouble in local communities in case of logistical breakdowns or natural disasters. Time and time again we see that people are basically good and forthright and will help each other out where possible. It could be a little more dicey in the big cities where people are more tuned into the media.
Yes, these breakdown fantasies have their origin in cinema and the high drama of news broadcasts focusing 99% on negative news. Adopting this as reality means letting them tell you how to see the world. That's literally "bad news".
I am not worried -at all- that there will be violence or trouble in local communities in case of logistical breakdowns or natural disasters. Time and time again we see that people are basically good and forthright and will help each other out where possible. It could be a little more dicey in the big cities where people are more tuned into the media.
Yes, these breakdown fantasies have their origin in cinema and the high drama of news broadcasts focusing 99% on negative news. Adopting this as reality means letting them tell you how to see the world. That's literally "bad news".
Ukrainians are a reasonable case study of what happens in "troubled times"!I think you've been watching too much American Gotham
Cities are divided into areas, each area is 'supported' by council resources, by infrastructure, everything from access to hospitals and to schools to water supplies, rubbish removal and sewerage.
On the surface a city may appear to be one homogenous whole, but it's not, it's a group of areas that service their population and that interact with each other and support and are umbrella'd by the structure of the city. Business' of all varieties are an intrinsic part of that structure.
Removing people from their own area just causes huge displacement issues as they still need shelter, food, water, power, hospitals, schools, etc.,
There is flex within the individual areas, but none could take on the burden of the entirety of another.
Society is a multi-stranded thing. From the rural, who still use urban resources.....the vast majority do not live 'self sufficient' lifestyles. They don't grow their own wool and linen and spin and weave and sew their own clothing, for instance, but take that right across the board, from mining and smelting metal to making every dish in the house.....to those who are happily settled in the suburbs with access to both towns and countryside.
None of those people want to see society shatter, break down.
I don't think that's the topic of this thread though.
I think the topic is what can be done, practically, to mitigate any future issues that might crop up.
Just now there are two big issues.
One is the cost of fuel, and the second is the inflation causing prices to rise on everything from basic staples, to the stuff every household needs to replace.
There is also a third issue though, and that is the underlying one of a disease that's still killing people and how we must still be aware that it might evolve into something less infectious but that it might evolve into something very much more severe.
You are right though as there is a real difference between high fuel costs and inflation and a larger civil breakdown like we see with what is happening in Ukraine with the loss of its wheat crop to feed Africa and parts of the Mideast.
- Status
