Poncho Woes

[Oliver G]

Good Morning All,

I have an old 58 pattern poncho which did my fine during my college years but I it cast away for a few years in favour of a Basha I "acquired" while in the OTC.

Cut forward to last month I was contemplating the best way to go wild camping with my dog an I had in my mind that a poncho and woobie would be ideal, I can sent the mouth of it under my tarp as she can come and go as she pleases. So I got the poncho out and tried the Nikwax tech-wash then the TX-wash in waterproofer, I let it air dry in the spare room and, with the rain we had earlier this week, strung the poncho out in the garden to see how it stands up.

Alas it just lets the rain right through so change of plan, I'll take a DD 4x4 and the dog can sleep in with me.

So to the crux of it, has anyone actually had success with the nikwax waterproofing? This is my third trial with it and no joy yet, and, can someone suggest an alternative.

Kind regards,

Ollie

 

[C_Claycomb]

...

So to the crux of it, has anyone actually had success with the nikwax waterproofing? This is my third trial with it and no joy yet, and, can someone suggest an alternative.
...

I have had success with clothing. I have a lot of Paramo gear and that all gets washed and treated at times.

I have not had similar success when treating tarps...with anything. I have had a couple of nylon tarps that really didn't shed water well, they kept me dry, but the outer surface wetted out so they were invariably wet to put away. I tried Nikwax, and I tried Fabsil and neither made water bead up the way I had hoped. Not sure why.

The only time I have seen a garment fail to become more water resistant with Nikwax was a friend's coat. He had been trying without success to reproof his coat and I asked to have a go since I had a suspicion and wanted to test it. He was a heavy pipe smoker and it was the front of the coat that wouldn't shed water. They tell you to wash these things with Tech Wash, or liquid soap, but that is because these are gentle and don't remove much if any of the wax. I used neat detergent and a scrubbing brush and what ran out of that coat was black! Year's worth of pipe smoke tar. After getting the garment really clean and very thoroughly rinsed, I retreated and it was once again water-proof.

The alternative to Nikwax is usually Granger's Fabsil, a mixture of silicone and white spirit (or similar HVOC).


Tarps and most ponchos rely upon a coating rather than a soak in treatment to keep the water out. If the coating breaks down (and urethane coatings, which are the most common, DO break down in time) you will never get the same level of proofing

 

[Oliver G]

Thanks for the feedback.

There feels to be no coating left on the poncho is silky smooth now rather than that pale waxy substance (PU coating) it used to be, I'll have to resign it to the play box when the kids come over.

Good call about the jacket, it has seen it's fair share of workshops and general crashing about in woodblock, I'll give it a good scrub in the sink and try again, failing that there are always the January sales.

Cheers,

Ollie

 

[Toddy]

Fabsil's much easier. Just stretch out whatever you want to proof (I use the washing lines) and spray evenly.
Make sure whatever you're proofing is clean first though. Even a really thorough brushing helps immensely.
Really good on flysheets I found.

We were disappointed in the Nikwax wash in waterproofing on jackets, and nearly threw them away, but I rewashed them and then sprayed with the Fabsil and they're fine and fit to be worn. Son2's walking down to the train station to get to work jackets, I mean.

 

[oldtimer]

When I first started camping, nylon tents were rare. We used to proof our egyptian cotton tents with granger's solution and noticed that nylon tents waterproofed this way were never waterproof.

Nikwax instructions insist on cleaning with techwash first and I always do this with our Paramo gear. I often wonder if this is to boost sales of their own-brand products or whether there is a cheaper, suitable alternative.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I have used the liquid soap sold in some Tescos, instead of Techwash. The idea is to remove dirt without stripping the wax left by the previous Nikwax treatment. The soap is not identical to the Techwash, but it will work.

 

[Toddy]

Good to know; I bought the Nikwax Techwash thinking that I was doing a proper job of things, and the jackets still let through at the shoulders and elbows. Two not terribly chuffed menfolks as a result. Son2 said the jacket was worse after washing and proofing than it had been before hand.

M

 

[C_Claycomb]

I don't know about anyone else, but I have found that my Bosch washing machine, bought nearly 8 years ago, has ALWAYS failed to rinse all soap out on a normal cycle. Even after running an additional rinse it is not 100%, but better. It is only apparent when you take an item and submerge it in clean water and scrunch it around. When wash my Paramo I do at least one extra rinse/spin cycle followed by hand rinsing in the bath. Any residual soap is going to cause problems. Also, I only ever use liquid detergent in my machine, so no soap powder build up anywhere. Finally, I do not re-proof in the machine...in a bowl, by hand...and for the soaking part of the treatment I use some weights to make sure that all of the garment is fully submerged.

So far I have yet to have a problem with water coming through anywhere really...it will get pushed through by pack straps, and will get in at cuffs on some garments where it is just two layers of shell fabric (cuffs get dusty, dirty and rubbed.).

Of course...I DO have the advantage that I am not dealing with Scottish Rain!

 

[Toddy]

I'm a pain about the washing machine, and I do a frequent empty 'clean it all out cycle' on it, and especially before and after I wash to re-proof something.
I too was displeased that modern washing machines don't seem to really rinse everything out of the clothing, and I have a big black bin and a set of trugs/buckets that are kept solely for doing laundry kind of things. I would really like space to have an old fashioned twin tub, they really did get clothes clean and well spun.
Soap powders are usually bulked up with fibre fillers, and I only use them if something white needs soaked in a trug for a while before washing.

Scottish rain is a bit like the people; persistent
That said, I don't think I've ever been wetter in my life than I was when working in the Lake District ! I was almost at the point of Punk Rocking it and using binbags.

M

 

[TLM]

Just as a reminder about washing. No outdoor outer garment should be washed with anything that contains a surfactant. They are chemicals that lower the surface tension of water to make washing easier, the bad thing is that it makes fabrics wet thoroughly. Even small remnant helps spread the rain drops instead of running away as drops. Negates water repellants (like waxes).

 

[Erbswurst]

If the PU or Silicone coating is damaged or away the only way to reproof the fabric is to add an additional layer of PU or Silicone on the cleaned material.

But:

The German or Austrian army ponchos are sold " used" in nearly unused conditions for 20 €. 210cmx165cm, 600g to 800g depending on the age. Usually we find the newer 600g version on the market now a days.

The Defcon 5 poncho, 350g, round about 45€, is 200cm x 168 cm and in my opinion currently the best lightweight poncho on the European market.

In my opinion it is better to buy a new poncho instead of giving an old one another coating.

 

[Herman30]

I would dare to go so far as to say:

No outdoor outer garment should be washed...

...unless they are really, really, really dirty. Often it is enough to rinse them in pure water without any detergent.

 

[Insel Affen]

NOTE: I forgot to mention this method is for the inside surface of a day-sack/pouch/poncho.

I have seen a video in Youtube which shows you how to re-proof a poncho with silicon solution (made from Clear PVC mastic from a DIY store and white spirit). It is a really simple process and works too. You mix them until a wallpaper paste consistency then literally paint it on. Have a search for it and there's plenty of info on Youtube about re-proofing them. My next task is to re proof my 30 Karrimor day sack.

 

[TLM]

The important word was "surfactant", it is a substance that lowers the surface tension of water and wets the fabric a lot more easily.