Planning permission
- Thread starter Tengu
- Start date
Ok, pause.
OPP - Outline planning permission is the basic notion of you being able to do something - its the general idea of a thing. ie Demolition of side garage to replace with Two storey extension
The detailed planning permission ( DPP ) is as it suggests the very fine detail and all the small levels of 'how' its going to be achieved.
But what I suspect you are actually after is neither OPP or DPP but PERMITTED DEVELOPMENT.
A guide to permitted development rules: What you need to know
Permitted development rules and regulations give homeowners the right to build extensions and make certain changes to their homes without the need to go through the planning permission process. In this guide, we explore the rules that apply in England.
www.fmb.org.uk
Permitted development is a series of projects , alterations or works that you can do WITHOUT planning ( hence "permitted" ) for your property without needing to apply for any planning.
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This also seems if I may point out a 180 deg turn on your ' shall I sale or shall I rent' thinking.
I'd be wary of doing too much work to it if its a bit of a wreck ( no disrespect intended ) as its unlikely unless done well if you'd recoup it.
The only other thing I would say , is if you are thinking you are going to sell it and if you think you may get planning on it for a large extension ( outside the scope of Permitted development ) have a word with your planning office and see if they think it would be allowed.
If you had a wreck of a house with planning PRE-APPROVED I would as a developer or local builder be far more inclined to look at it as the potential for uplift in price ( for the builder ) is far greater.
It really does depend on the house , the type of house ( end terrace vs mid terrace or detached ) and what the local data suggests about your area -- people moving in, people moving out , prices going up past the mean norm etc etc
Assuming it needs work beyond Permitted Development, there's a lot more to this than just getting planning permission, especially if it needs a lot of work to bring it from unfit to live in to fit to live in (or rent out).
Also, for a development which needs Planning permission. you also need Building Regs approval. Depending on the condition and location of the property, you may need Ecology surveys- otherwise you won't get full planning. You may also need water run-off surveys and all sorts of other stuff.
I have just been (am) going through all this with a "project" in west Wales, doing a major renovation of a house which was empty and not fit to live in, we bought as a doer-upper. Sequence was as follows:
(1) Full structural survey so we have a rough idea what we're dealing with.
(2) Find and appoint a decent (and affordable) local architect with experience of this type of building. You need to be able to work with them, so avoid any with whom your personality clashes on first meeting. A good architect makes a big difference.
(3) Discuss ideas with Architect, in light of structural survey. Know your philosophy and remember, complex = expensive. Listen to their advice on what is possible. Try to find a builder early on and involve them.
(4) The architect should advise on the required ecology. In our case, we did a bat scoping survey and as there was evidence of bats, we needed a full survey. A full bat survey can only be done between May and September, and so we had to wait for 6 months. We were lucky as (a) it wasn't dormice and (b) it was a "common" species (soprano pipestrelle, summer roost only) not a maternity roost for a "superstar" species e.g Horseshoe bats.
(5) Develop relationship with selected builder, do outline planning. We did the outline planning whilst waiting for the bat survey. The comments from the Planners plus the builder's experience were extremely useful in refining a draft final design. (Early engagement with a builder is important as the good ones will all be booked up well in advance).
(6) Findings from the ecology need to be incorporated in the final design. We had to build in 2 Swift boxes and a bat box, the plans we submitted for full planning were updated to reflect this. Plus we had to put extra bat boxes and bird nest boxes in the grounds. That was pretty minor; depending on the ecology findings, you may have a whole lot to do and if planning is granted, it will be conditional on doing the specified ecology.
(7) We submitted Building Regs plans for approval whilst Planning application was in, the Architect handled all this. We also started the application for the Bat Disturbance Licence via the bat survey company.
(8) About a year after we started, we finally got Planning and Building Regs approved, and had a builder ready to start in a month, and a Bat Disturbance Licence [needed for later stages of work] in process.
(9) Another year on since we got planning, still not finished (on second fit at moment). Hopefully be ready to move in by Christmas..... [fingers crossed]. Found some "interesting" things during the work, so additionally needed to replace the whole first floor joists.... and all the old window lintels.
OK, this is a pretty major renovation going well beyond "a couple of conservatories" but hopefully gives the idea of what something beyond permited development rights can look like.
GC
Also, for a development which needs Planning permission. you also need Building Regs approval. Depending on the condition and location of the property, you may need Ecology surveys- otherwise you won't get full planning. You may also need water run-off surveys and all sorts of other stuff.
I have just been (am) going through all this with a "project" in west Wales, doing a major renovation of a house which was empty and not fit to live in, we bought as a doer-upper. Sequence was as follows:
(1) Full structural survey so we have a rough idea what we're dealing with.
(2) Find and appoint a decent (and affordable) local architect with experience of this type of building. You need to be able to work with them, so avoid any with whom your personality clashes on first meeting. A good architect makes a big difference.
(3) Discuss ideas with Architect, in light of structural survey. Know your philosophy and remember, complex = expensive. Listen to their advice on what is possible. Try to find a builder early on and involve them.
(4) The architect should advise on the required ecology. In our case, we did a bat scoping survey and as there was evidence of bats, we needed a full survey. A full bat survey can only be done between May and September, and so we had to wait for 6 months. We were lucky as (a) it wasn't dormice and (b) it was a "common" species (soprano pipestrelle, summer roost only) not a maternity roost for a "superstar" species e.g Horseshoe bats.
(5) Develop relationship with selected builder, do outline planning. We did the outline planning whilst waiting for the bat survey. The comments from the Planners plus the builder's experience were extremely useful in refining a draft final design. (Early engagement with a builder is important as the good ones will all be booked up well in advance).
(6) Findings from the ecology need to be incorporated in the final design. We had to build in 2 Swift boxes and a bat box, the plans we submitted for full planning were updated to reflect this. Plus we had to put extra bat boxes and bird nest boxes in the grounds. That was pretty minor; depending on the ecology findings, you may have a whole lot to do and if planning is granted, it will be conditional on doing the specified ecology.
(7) We submitted Building Regs plans for approval whilst Planning application was in, the Architect handled all this. We also started the application for the Bat Disturbance Licence via the bat survey company.
(8) About a year after we started, we finally got Planning and Building Regs approved, and had a builder ready to start in a month, and a Bat Disturbance Licence [needed for later stages of work] in process.
(9) Another year on since we got planning, still not finished (on second fit at moment). Hopefully be ready to move in by Christmas..... [fingers crossed]. Found some "interesting" things during the work, so additionally needed to replace the whole first floor joists.... and all the old window lintels.
OK, this is a pretty major renovation going well beyond "a couple of conservatories" but hopefully gives the idea of what something beyond permited development rights can look like.
GC
The planning is in order to get the house more desirable (ie bigger value, -really its in a village that folk want to get into)
Its going to be bought by a developer so it will be handy if its all in place ready for them.
Even if they dont use it.
(I think one conservatory is too many, let alone two).
Its going to be bought by a developer so it will be handy if its all in place ready for them.
Even if they dont use it.
(I think one conservatory is too many, let alone two).
I think you need to be somewhat realistic and pragmatic about how much surplus money you have to pursue this , what REALLY needs to get done and if you will really recoup it
I'm not sure what you direction is now - are you just wanting to sell and get rid ? or get the most out of it ? if so that will take some time , effort , labour and money investment.
Its not something to take on lightly and I wouldn't want to see you come unstuck.
How likely is it you would be granted planning for whatever you envisage ? Has a precedent been already created in the street by people with similar properties extending or improving to the degree you seem to be thinking.
Is it an end of terrace with obvious room to extend or a midline terrace with no obvious space to grow?
I would encourage you to have a serious think and get some impartial guidance from someone you trust and give you a reality check.
Agreed. If they’re asking for it in advance it’s because they want you to take the risk of losing any costs associated with it.
and increasing the developers profit margin by removing a significant cost.
Most councils offer a pre-planning advice service. For a small cost (around £70, not exactly tiny, but small compared to even an outline planning application!) you can submit the basics of an idea to the council and they will tell you:
1. If planning permission is likely to be required or not
2. If so, whether it is likely to be granted or not
3. If not, if there is anything that can easily be done or changed to make it more likely to be granted.
This service is not widely known about, which is unfortunate as planning departments like it to be used and prefer to be asked in this way first before applications are submitted. If it turns out planning permission is needed and likely to be granted, the planning process will be faster and smoother as some of the work has already been done.
I've used it myself to get clarification of a grey area, and although it cost £70, I would otherwise have wasted £250 on an unnecessary full planning application for permission which wasn't required in the end. Had the full application been required, I would not have resented the additional £70- it helps to get the planning department on side by showing you understand and respect the system...!
1. If planning permission is likely to be required or not
2. If so, whether it is likely to be granted or not
3. If not, if there is anything that can easily be done or changed to make it more likely to be granted.
This service is not widely known about, which is unfortunate as planning departments like it to be used and prefer to be asked in this way first before applications are submitted. If it turns out planning permission is needed and likely to be granted, the planning process will be faster and smoother as some of the work has already been done.
I've used it myself to get clarification of a grey area, and although it cost £70, I would otherwise have wasted £250 on an unnecessary full planning application for permission which wasn't required in the end. Had the full application been required, I would not have resented the additional £70- it helps to get the planning department on side by showing you understand and respect the system...!
I suspect any developer who buys your property to turn a profit will sort out planning permission more efficiently and cheaper than @Tengu . They will also get the development they want to maximise their profits rather than having to potentially change your planning permission.
I am no expert but it is like my in laws who are prepping for selling their house. It is perfectly adequate for selling but they want to get it perfect for them if they still lived there. All cost they put in the house adds nothing to the value or likely affect speed of sale. It is more for them not the buyer. I suspect this is kind of similar to this situation. Cost incurred is never going to be recouped. If the village is high demand then you could sell it as is and clear an asset which has been maximised purely by selling up quick without incurring costs with delay or trying to add value that is not realised.
Good luck with whatever you choose @Tengu it is a big step to sell up and move away from a place you have history with. I do think you need to make that step sooner rather than later. History tends to draw you back and it seems like your life is now happy elsewhere. Go with that is my advice.
I am no expert but it is like my in laws who are prepping for selling their house. It is perfectly adequate for selling but they want to get it perfect for them if they still lived there. All cost they put in the house adds nothing to the value or likely affect speed of sale. It is more for them not the buyer. I suspect this is kind of similar to this situation. Cost incurred is never going to be recouped. If the village is high demand then you could sell it as is and clear an asset which has been maximised purely by selling up quick without incurring costs with delay or trying to add value that is not realised.
Good luck with whatever you choose @Tengu it is a big step to sell up and move away from a place you have history with. I do think you need to make that step sooner rather than later. History tends to draw you back and it seems like your life is now happy elsewhere. Go with that is my advice.
It's not always true that doing up the house doesn't recoup costs. Some buyers can't see past work needing to be done so a cheap refurb can get more profit. Of course, it does depend...
I have no knowledge of property markets in your patch but:
I recently had the roof on my house replaced. It cost me £30,000. I’d estimate that it cost the roofing firm less than half that.
They seemed to have a fast track to authorities and inspectorate.
If a developer buys your house they will pay far far below what you have to pay for any renovation.
If you were to be selling in my area I would suggest getting a valuation of your house “as is”. As long as that value is acceptable then I’d empty it and sell.
In any case you can measure that value plus ALL your costs when assessing any return in renovation.
Big thing is not to be bullied by a purchaser listing all the things that need to be done. Just smile and tell them that that is what they are buying.
I recently had the roof on my house replaced. It cost me £30,000. I’d estimate that it cost the roofing firm less than half that.
They seemed to have a fast track to authorities and inspectorate.
If a developer buys your house they will pay far far below what you have to pay for any renovation.
If you were to be selling in my area I would suggest getting a valuation of your house “as is”. As long as that value is acceptable then I’d empty it and sell.
In any case you can measure that value plus ALL your costs when assessing any return in renovation.
Big thing is not to be bullied by a purchaser listing all the things that need to be done. Just smile and tell them that that is what they are buying.
Unless I misread the query the issue is planning permission for the house which is a bit more involved for non experts than a bit of refurb. I would totally agree a good spruce up helps with the selling to people buying to live in it but I do question that with developers who will not see the work you would do as much of an issue.
The other point is that this is just planning permission not actually doing the building so that work and cost is wasted if not going to ber used by the potential buyer. Not necessarily worth much TBH. My parents bought a house with planning permission and they kept it up under the illusion it added value. They needed to keep it going so they checked with the local estate agent who said it didn't add value or increase the chances of a faster sale and said it was probably not worth keeping going.
My parents dropped it and then sold the house without it. The biggest issue was that it was a locally high value house 3 or 4 hundred years old and to personal tastes (kitchen was fashion when they put it in all country cottage which is what it was but not when they came to sell). It took some time to sell as did other similar houses. That was despite being in a village known for the popularity premium (at the time about 30%+ of the value of a starter home in the village compared to equivalent starter homes in other locations nearby).
I was responding to the point you said that your in-laws doing up their house wouldn't get them more value.
In my humble opinion, I'd just clean it out, tidy the garden and put it on the market as is. What you might consider worth getting planning for, the eventual buyer may not want to go ahead with, so it's a waste of time effort and money.
It will be their house, and they will do what they want anyway.
A friend of mine's husband spent many months on a handcrafted country kitchen, which was absolutly beautiful and I was insanely jealous, when they sold, the new owners ripped it all out and put in a completely out of character modern one in.
It broke my friends heart. There is no accounting for another's taste.
Tidy, clean and sell.
It will be their house, and they will do what they want anyway.
A friend of mine's husband spent many months on a handcrafted country kitchen, which was absolutly beautiful and I was insanely jealous, when they sold, the new owners ripped it all out and put in a completely out of character modern one in.
It broke my friends heart. There is no accounting for another's taste.
Tidy, clean and sell.
@Woody girl Sound advice, there's a lot to be said for the old advice of a quick redecoration job in neutral colours.
Magnolia. Or whatever the current trendy name is for beige
Magnolia. Or whatever the current trendy name is for beige
You see those renovation / under the hammer programmes on TV where they paint it all out in white. A matt white everywhere (could be called embarassed cauliflower or other colour name but I call it white). White is the colour that is easiest to cover over with the colour of your choice.@Woody girl Sound advice, there's a lot to be said for the old advice of a quick redecoration job in neutral colours.
Magnolia. Or whatever the current trendy name is for beige
Unlike magnolia and pink stripes with red, brown and green plant in pot stencils when on blown vinyl walpaper!! The magnolia took about three or four coats to cover it all and before the first overall coat I had done at least two coats on the pink, vertical stripes and the plants above the magnola vertical stripe. It took several weeks to do and I do believe i didn't paint the house for years after I was so scarred by that (and the Man. United walpaper in the other room but that is another story of the trials and tribulations of a first time homeowner).
Seriously, a nice white paint everywhere is a blank canvas for the future owner but that probably is too much effort (unless you have a paint sprayer perhaps).
Pale grey is apparently “on trend”!
White is cheapest.
Personally I wouldn’t do either.
One of my daughters moved into a house that had brilliant white walls with trite sayings stencilled in black script everywhere. It took wallpaper to cover those walls.
Another buyer might have liked them, who knows?
White is cheapest.
Personally I wouldn’t do either.
One of my daughters moved into a house that had brilliant white walls with trite sayings stencilled in black script everywhere. It took wallpaper to cover those walls.
Another buyer might have liked them, who knows?
