Places for wild camping through winter months

[Broch]

I was under the impression that private land can still have right of way or roam? That's where I was confused- don't want to be in the wrong and stay the right side of the law just in case.

This is a general confusion following the 'right to roam' legislation - this only applies to 'some' privately owned land.

As you say, generally, if you have a justified reason to carry a blade you're allowed to do so. But, carrying a blade onto private land without permission does not have a justified reason. What are you going to do with it? Cut trees and wood? That may be construed as criminal damage therefor carrying one can be construed as 'intent to cause criminal damage'.

 

[Ystranc]

Sorry, but how is that? Having possession of a bladed article without the landowners permission is irrelevant-the law states you need a reason for carrying said items, not permission from the land owner?
Just wondering because a hiker on a path on private land with rights to roam, but has an axe or such on them would therefore be breaking the law

…you cannot be in possession of a bladed item in a public place such as a public footpath unless that bladed item is a folding knife under three inches. You may have a defence in law if you can show that you have good reason to be carrying a fixed blade or larger blade (something a court will decide, not you). You can carry a larger bladed item or even a firearm on private land with the landowners explicit permission, however if you are trespassing you don’t have that defence. Also, if that land is adjunct to any building or residence (eg. surrounding a house) then you can also be charged with additional offence of “armed trespass with a knife or weapon of offence” which carries an additional 12 months sentence. I hope that makes it a little clearer

 

[1 pot hunter]

It's that attitude that got " wild campers " during the pandemic a bad name which messed it up for genuine leave no trace bushcrafters and wild campers, to the point where certain areas that had tolerated it began to talk about a total ban on wildcamping. I know dartmoor was seriously considering it, and also places in Scotland where it is more tolerated.
Stealth camps were all over you tube encouraging people to camp in silly places like roundabouts.
Always ask. It's polite and shows you have some idea of responsibility.
Near me, is an area of woodland that belongs to an estate. It was covered in fire scars and messy abandoned tents with broken gin bottles, cans, faeces, and torn down live trees that they had attempted to burn whole!
I spent some time clearing up the mess they made, and it took a long time. Made me and the landowner furious. Still, I got me some brownie points with the owner, and though not allowed overnights, have daytime access over a certain part of the land, as they know I will keep my eyes open and report trespassing activity.
If you were to just pitch up and set yourself up for the night there, I'd be turfing you off! No questions asked.
You are trespassing, and lighting a fire is criminal damage. End of.
Always ask. It's polite and builds trust.
I'm afraid,the "just do it anyway, its not a crime" attitude, is not what this forum is about, or condones.
It's trespassing , and if you light a fire or burn wood, break branches etc it's criminal damage. If you don't regard that a crime, how would you like me to pitch up in your garden unasked and do just what I fancied?
You'd be calling the police in no time, and getting me carted off wouldn't you?
Set an example mate... Don't be a donkey.

Trespassing is not a jail or fine ,type off offence as-long as you leave when asked , iff you are respectful I don’t see problems camping in remote areas lighting a fire isnt required n leave no trace

 

[1 pot hunter]

It's that attitude that got " wild campers " during the pandemic a bad name which messed it up for genuine leave no trace bushcrafters and wild campers, to the point where certain areas that had tolerated it began to talk about a total ban on wildcamping. I know dartmoor was seriously considering it, and also places in Scotland where it is more tolerated.
Stealth camps were all over you tube encouraging people to camp in silly places like roundabouts.
Always ask. It's polite and shows you have some idea of responsibility.
Near me, is an area of woodland that belongs to an estate. It was covered in fire scars and messy abandoned tents with broken gin bottles, cans, faeces, and torn down live trees that they had attempted to burn whole!
I spent some time clearing up the mess they made, and it took a long time. Made me and the landowner furious. Still, I got me some brownie points with the owner, and though not allowed overnights, have daytime access over a certain part of the land, as they know I will keep my eyes open and report trespassing activity.
If you were to just pitch up and set yourself up for the night there, I'd be turfing you off! No questions asked.
You are trespassing, and lighting a fire is criminal damage. End of.
Always ask. It's polite and builds trust.
I'm afraid,the "just do it anyway, its not a crime" attitude, is not what this forum is about, or condones.
It's trespassing , and if you light a fire or burn wood, break branches etc it's criminal damage. If you don't regard that a crime, how would you like me to pitch up in your garden unasked and do just what I fancied?
You'd be calling the police in no time, and getting me carted off wouldn't you?
Set an example mate... Don't be a donkey.

A tiny garden and a entire country estate are 2 totally different things .

 

[1 pot hunter]

…you cannot be in possession of a bladed item in a public place such as a public footpath unless that bladed item is a folding knife under three inches. You may have a defence in law if you can show that you have good reason to be carrying a fixed blade or larger blade (something a court will decide, not you). You can carry a larger bladed item or even a firearm on private land with the landowners explicit permission, however if you are trespassing you don’t have that defence. Also, if that land is adjunct to any building or residence (eg. surrounding a house) then you can also be charged with additional offence of “armed trespass with a knife or weapon of offence” which carries an additional 12 months sentence. I hope that makes it a little clearer

You are correct sir

 

[1 pot hunter]

As another land owner I will say that an awful lot depends on attitude. If someone stealth camps for a night and cooks on gas. Pitching late and striking camp early without disturbing anything then that is one thing. Setting up for more than a night, gathering wood, foraging, lighting ground fires, climbing locked gates or fences without permission will immediately get my back up. Wait to be invited.
As Broch mentioned earlier in the thread, a landowner may be prioritising certain species on their land that you may be completely unaware of. It’s always better to ask.

We have a neighbour that rents out a holiday cottage and self entitled townies that stay there feel it’s alright to pillage the log stacks along the drive, burning our winter fuel in order to have a “campfire” in mid summer at the height of a heat wave (massive fire risk) You can imagine how short of patience I can get with these people. Making the same explanations each week for each new group of idiots.

I’m in agreement

 

[nigelp]

I was under the impression that private land can still have right of way or roam? That's where I was confused- don't want to be in the wrong and stay the right side of the law just in case.

Yes it can. Then it’s a public right of way - you can pass through on the ROW but as it is public you would still need a reason for carrying a bladed article on it.

The Countryside and Rights Way Act allows access to land but it is still owned by someone. Quite a lot of access land is uncultivated or woodland. The CROW act does not allow the right to camp or lights fires.
Again if it’s ‘public’ you would need a reason to have a bladed article on it.

(Edit - I see that’s been covered)

 

[1 pot hunter]

This attitude makes me so bloody angry, if it's not your land stay off it.
I spend half my time clearing up other people's rubbish.
Cutting green trees. De-barking living silver birch trees. Fire rings, bottles , cans, "shelters" , excrement & toilet paper all over the place. Even sleeping bags and tents.
Don't even think about "wild camping" on our ground or you will be leaving without your kit.

There is such a thing as respectful campers the bad exceptions don’t make the rule these people are obviously not bush rafters.

 

[nigelp]

Trespassing is not a jail or fine ,type off offence as-long as you leave when asked , iff you are respectful I don’t see problems camping in remote areas lighting a fire isnt required n leave no trace

First rule of wild camping club….

You don’t talk about wild camping, locations and on forums and social media.

 

[Ystranc]

Trespassing is not a jail or fine ,type off offence as-long as you leave when asked , iff you are respectful I don’t see problems camping in remote areas lighting a fire isnt required n leave no trace

Spot on, trespass is described as a “tort” and is a civil offence. You are in fact trespassing against the rights of the landowner and it is up to the landowner or their agent to ask you to leave then put you off the land using reasonable force if you fail to leave in a timely manner.
The police may be called to prevent a breach of the peace during a trespasser being removed from private property.
A land owner also has the right to prevent you progressing across private land and expect you to leave by the way you came. A landowner does not have the right to detain you unless you commit an arrest-able offence, you do not have to provide personal details to a land owner nor does the land owner have any right to damage or interfere with your posessions.

 

[1 pot hunter]

Spot on, trespass is described as a “tort” and is a civil offence. You are in fact trespassing against the rights of the landowner and it is up to the landowner or their agent to ask you to leave then put you off the land using reasonable force if you fail to leave in a timely manner.
The police may be called to prevent a breach of the peace during a trespasser being removed from private property.
A land owner also has the right to prevent you progressing across private land and expect you to leave by the way you came. A landowner does not have the right to detain you unless you commit an arrest-able offence, you do not have to provide personal details to a land owner nor does the land owner have any right to damage or interfere with your posessions.

This is what I mentioned before iff you leave when asked it’s not a punishable crime /or even a crime.

 

[1 pot hunter]

First rule of wild camping club….

You don’t talk about wild camping, locations and on forums and social media.

Exactly

 

[Jeff Edwards]

I am under the impression new legislation, either just passed or about to be, has/will make trespass a criminal offence if an officer of the law attends and decides to persue. That is no matter where due to the wide wording and it includes private land. To cover such places as charitable trust owned.
Also it is not up to the indivual to decide just cause to carry a fixed blade over 3 inches. It is for the arresting officer, Crown Prosecution Service and magistrate or judge. As a word of caution West Midlands police are taking a much more robust attitude due to all the knife related murders in the outer suberbs not just the cities and towns.
Ask, repect land owners as you respect yourself and watch the ever changing laws.

 

[birchwood]

A tiny garden and a entire country estate are 2 totally different things .

It does not matter if it's a garden or an entire county if it's not yours then stay off it.
And I don't care if you are a "respectful camper" or not. You are not welcome.
People like you with your attitude are the problem. Get it through your head it's private property.

 

[Ystranc]

I am under the impression new legislation, either just passed or about to be, has/will make trespass a criminal offence if an officer of the law attends and decides to persue. That is no matter where due to the wide wording and it includes private land. To cover such places as charitable trust owned.
Also it is not up to the indivual to decide just cause to carry a fixed blade over 3 inches. It is for the arresting officer, Crown Prosecution Service and magistrate or judge. As a word of caution West Midlands police are taking a much more robust attitude due to all the knife related murders in the outer suberbs not just the cities and towns.
Ask, repect land owners as you respect yourself and watch the ever changing laws.

That is new to me, I must look into this.
You make a very good point about prosecutions for possession of bladed items. The magistrate or people who sit on the jury may have a very different perspective on knife ownership to the average bushcrafter and be quite unsympathetic

 

[mrmike]

This is what I mentioned before iff you leave when asked it’s not a punishable crime /or even a crime.

If you are found/suspected to be carrying a weapon/bladed article that is not a sub 3" non locking folder then you are committing the CRIMINAL OFFENCE of armed trespass.
You get to take a ride in a woo woo car with a man in uniform.

Stealth camping without permission on private land is not a good idea for your own safety - deer, foxes, and rabbits all get shot at dusk/night. If you are hiding in the bushes and a shot is missed....



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[Jeff Edwards]

That is new to me, I must look into this.
You make a very good point about prosecutions for possession of bladed items. The magistrate or people who sit on the jury may have a very different perspective on knife ownership to the average bushcrafter and be quite unsympathetic

It is to do with using verges and council land by travelers to move them on without the need for a court injunction. The problem being the wording is such that it is too wide ranging.
This was brought to light by a similarly worded piece of legislation to do with using covert recording of individuals supposedly for anti terrorist purposes. One urban council used it quite legally against owners of dog fouling public places to prosecute them despite the (forgive the pun) stink about it not being its intended use. Prosecutions stuck like, well you guess the next pun.

 

[Ystranc]

Ah yes, I get it now.

It is to do with using verges and council land by travelers to move them on without the need for a court injunction. The problem being the wording is such that it is too wide ranging.
This was brought to light by a similarly worded piece of legislation to do with using covert recording of individuals supposedly for anti terrorist purposes. One urban council used it quite legally against owners of dog fouling public places to prosecute them despite the (forgive the pun) stink about it not being its intended use. Prosecutions stuck like, well you guess the next pun.

It’s the same piece of legislation that introduced “fly grazing” laws.

 

[Ystranc]

If you are found/suspected to be carrying a weapon/bladed article that is not a sub 3" non locking folder then you are committing the CRIMINAL OFFENCE of armed trespass.
You get to take a ride in a woo woo car with a man in uniform.

Stealth camping without permission on private land is not a good idea for your own safety - deer, foxes, and rabbits all get shot at dusk/night. If you are hiding in the bushes and a shot is missed....



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I have not yet been able to find any references to stealth campers being shot or killed by accidental or negligent gunshot in the UK. It’s a more common occurrence in the US, also US campers shooting themselves/each other accidentally. I hope UK gun owners hold themselves to a higher standard.

 

[mrmike]

I have not yet been able to find any references to stealth campers being shot or killed by accidental or negligent gunshot in the UK. It’s a more common occurrence in the US, also US campers shooting themselves/each other accidentally. I hope UK gun owners hold themselves to a higher standard.

Indeed it may not have happened yet (happens in the states because they shoot at any object that moves, just in case it is that once-in-a-lifetime buck), but the point I am trying to make is that if nobody knows you are there (Stealth camping by its very nature is hiding from people) you are still taking a risk.

Just do everyone a favour and just ask permission.

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