Pine martin release on dartmoor.
- Thread starter Woody girl
- Start date
This from the Irish Pine Martin site which sugests that over the last few hundred years its mostly been gamekeepers and people who regarded them as vermin who have killed them.
"Pine martens were most abundant in Ireland when tree cover was at its maximum, and before our Neolithic ancestors started clearing woodland for agricultural purposes around 6,000 years ago.
The pine marten’s distribution then retracted in step with decreasing woodland, initially due to climate change, then widescale clearance of woodland by people. Pine martens suffered further declines from hunting for their valuable pelt, restriction and fragmentation of woodland, and over the last few hundred years, targeted killing by gamekeepers and people who perceived the marten as vermin.
The pine marten is now one of Irelands rarest mammals"
"Pine martens were most abundant in Ireland when tree cover was at its maximum, and before our Neolithic ancestors started clearing woodland for agricultural purposes around 6,000 years ago.
The pine marten’s distribution then retracted in step with decreasing woodland, initially due to climate change, then widescale clearance of woodland by people. Pine martens suffered further declines from hunting for their valuable pelt, restriction and fragmentation of woodland, and over the last few hundred years, targeted killing by gamekeepers and people who perceived the marten as vermin.
The pine marten is now one of Irelands rarest mammals"
We had no rabbits to speak of, then years later started to get more kites. I am dubious of the cause-effect suggested by those local falconers. Between VHD and myxy rabbits have a hard time these days.
While I have never seen a kite take live prey, a friend over in Oxfordshire says he has seen them going after (might have said taking) pigeons in his back yard. They are very lightly built birds, compared to buzzards, so not all that well suited to taking larger prey. Small mammals are possible, but I have never seen one stoop on the field of long grass behind my house, despite seeing the foxes in there mousing regularly.
While I have never seen a kite take live prey, a friend over in Oxfordshire says he has seen them going after (might have said taking) pigeons in his back yard. They are very lightly built birds, compared to buzzards, so not all that well suited to taking larger prey. Small mammals are possible, but I have never seen one stoop on the field of long grass behind my house, despite seeing the foxes in there mousing regularly.
Do Red Kites stoop on prey? I know that they dive during courtship. I’m not sure that they do which is partly why I am sceptical about their predation. They can take voles and mice but they must be the slow ones.
My neighbour swears she saw a kite taking one of her lambs. I’m guessing that it was scavenging a (nearly) dead lamb on the ground.
The same thing that is being said about martins has been said about this return of otters, the establishment of beavers and the escape of mink. No catastrophes, just a rebalance.
It’s not all sweetness and light. I haven’t seen a frog for a long time and most of the ladybirds here have too many spots but Martins? I’ll certainly give them the benefit of the doubt.
My neighbour swears she saw a kite taking one of her lambs. I’m guessing that it was scavenging a (nearly) dead lamb on the ground.
The same thing that is being said about martins has been said about this return of otters, the establishment of beavers and the escape of mink. No catastrophes, just a rebalance.
It’s not all sweetness and light. I haven’t seen a frog for a long time and most of the ladybirds here have too many spots but Martins? I’ll certainly give them the benefit of the doubt.
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Hmm.. I wonder what would be the responce on reintroducing bears and wolves.
They are not harmles here but actual damage is not that large.
They are not harmles here but actual damage is not that large.
Spring scat, full of sedge, wouldn't be too bad....autumn scat from salmon would not be nice....winter scat from rotting salmon...
It depends on your point of view on catastrophes, plenty of people don't like otters as they will decimate fishing lakes for example. Most would agree that otters shouldn't be controlled but not much is being done to improve their native feeding grounds - i.e. our streams and rivers.
Plenty of people control mink, including various wildlife charities/organisations.
Funny you should mention frogs, this brings me neatly back to martens. They will take frogs apparently, do the frogs and other at risk animals need another predator? What gap are the martens filling? The main reason I came across was tourism.
I saw a TV documentary years ago about the pine martens in Scotland and it was mentioned that the last remaining colonies of native red squirrels in the British Isles were thriving in Scotland where there were populations of pine martens but the invasive grey squirrels were absent. I don't remember if the red squirrels returned after the pine martens were reintroduced or whether there just happened to be existing populations of both that survived in the same areas but grey squirrels in England probably aren't as used to encountering such agile tree climbing predators as the Scottish red squirrels are so maybe it's related.
No, they are big enough to avoid. I remember one hunting trip when every 100m or so one could see bear tracks. We did not see an ear but as a best guess our setter had at least a wiff of one.
I have seen a lynx in the wild but not any of the other larger carnivores.
What is the reason for the reintroduction? If it benefits the environment, such as beaver that actively changes the environment which allows for greater biodiversity then I can see the reason.
I did see a documentary that explained that in each ecosystem there are keystone species. These are species that need to be there for a healthy ecosystem. Whether they modify the environment (beavers and elephants) which then allow for other species to exist and thrive.
These keystone species might not always be the ones you think they should be according to this documentary. I am trying to remember the marine keystone species the documentary talked about.
For me many species are extinct in the UK and should not be reintroduced. Wolves and bears are among them. I question whether their reintroduction would add much. Perhaps wolves might keep deer numbers down but I think the costs of having them would outweigh that benefit somehow.
Pine Martins? Well they might be cute, photogenic animals but they are fierce predators. I do not think they should be reintroduced outside of the highlands and other wilder areas of Scotland unless there is a very, very strong ecological / biodiversity advantage. Being a tourism advantage is not a good enough reason.
I did see a documentary that explained that in each ecosystem there are keystone species. These are species that need to be there for a healthy ecosystem. Whether they modify the environment (beavers and elephants) which then allow for other species to exist and thrive.
These keystone species might not always be the ones you think they should be according to this documentary. I am trying to remember the marine keystone species the documentary talked about.
For me many species are extinct in the UK and should not be reintroduced. Wolves and bears are among them. I question whether their reintroduction would add much. Perhaps wolves might keep deer numbers down but I think the costs of having them would outweigh that benefit somehow.
Pine Martins? Well they might be cute, photogenic animals but they are fierce predators. I do not think they should be reintroduced outside of the highlands and other wilder areas of Scotland unless there is a very, very strong ecological / biodiversity advantage. Being a tourism advantage is not a good enough reason.
I understand that both are existing hereditary populations. Apparently there is an active ongoing cull on greys to keep them out.
A keen carp fishermen tells me that the private fisheries he has membershiop of have had problems with otters killing their expensively purchased Carp stocks. He didn't tell me what they did about it.
There used to be a lot of rabbits around my way, now the kites are here there aren,t. I think kites might be taking the young unwary leveretts, I cannot see they would manage a grown rabbit. They certainly swoop on the neighbour's offerings, amazingly fast and in a relatively short distance down then up to clear the 3m leylandi at the end of her garden.
Whilst Moxie decimated rabbit populations years back, and still exists, they largely recovered from that. However, there are numerous others threats, predator and environmental, that might equally play a part.
Whilst Moxie decimated rabbit populations years back, and still exists, they largely recovered from that. However, there are numerous others threats, predator and environmental, that might equally play a part.
Aye, it would be an absolute disaster if those native pine martins wiped out a load of non indigenous pheasants.
Mebbe need some wolves to control the pine martins
Mebbe need some wolves to control the pine martins
And some bears to control the wolves and I don’t know why, she swallowed a fly.
It's intriguing how so many native species have inadvertently become extinct yet when experts are tasked with eradicating invasive species they always seem to settle for perpetually managing the numbers.
Today, in Guardian:Trees for Life are planning to create the first British herd of up to 15 of the animals on its 4,000-hectare (9,884-acre) Dundreggan estate near Loch Ness, in a scientific research project aimed at enhancing biodiversity, education and ecotourism.
Oh goody, more wild camping risks. Semi-wild, or wild, DNA back-bred Auroch's are unlikely to be as docile as normal cattle. At least if these get out they are possibly easier to find.
Oh goody, more wild camping risks. Semi-wild, or wild, DNA back-bred Auroch's are unlikely to be as docile as normal cattle. At least if these get out they are possibly easier to find.
Sorry, forgot to say what they were:
A herd of beefy, long-horned tauros are to be released into a Highlands rewilding project to replicate the ecological role of the aurochs, an extinct, huge herbivore that is the wild ancestor of cattle.
It’s not called wild camping for nothing. You deal with what you’ve got .
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