Papua New Guinea native firemaking with string

[Galemys]

Can't easily get my hands on flint.
Would a firesteel do?
Could you also let me know what Beccari said the various others were used for?
I could then ask lots of questions and compare what the old and current uses are

Bod,
I think a firesteel will not work because it's too blunt. My theory is that the sparks are tiny pieces of bamboo, sliced of by the flint. If this is correct any material that's hard & sharp enough will do the trick. My scarce resources mention flint, china pottery (porcelain), glass or iron so you were probably right in trying out your parang to strike sparks.
Well that's my hypothesis but I might be wrong so don't let it stop you trying out a firesteel!

Beccari is not very elaborate in describing the uses of the bamboo species so I don't know of the next will be of any help:
Bulu pretja (a slender type) Beccari used for "making cane frames for the rearing of silkworms" later he found bulu kassa preferable for that purpose ("being still more slender and very like the reeds we use in Italy")
Beccari says the bulu gading ('ivory bamboo') is a sacred plant for the land dayaks but he gives no uses for it.
He also mentions a spring bamboo trap ('petti') that he land dayaks use too catch wild pigs which "consist of a horizontal bamboo stake (('jerunkan') driven by a strong spring".
In contrary to the meagre descriptions above, the book abunds in plant lore and Beccari mentions a lot of wildlife. There is also a description of how the natives make a sumpitan (blowpipe) but that's in one of the last chapters of the book I still have to read.

Tom

 

[Stew]

Can't easily get my hands on flint.

Would a firesteel do?

Could you also let me know what Beccari said the various others were used for?

I could then ask lots of questions and compare what the old and current uses are

Would you like a piece of flint posting out to you?

I would happily send you a piece.

 

[Galemys]

After a new google-search with Bod's alternative spelling I found this site with some bamboospecies that could turn up to be Beccari's Bulu tamian. I've put the names that are similar to Bulu tamian in bold.
(http://www.plantnames.unimelb.edu.au/Sorting/Schizostachyum.html)

Schizostachyum blumei Nees (PROSEA,Wang)
SYNONYM(S) : Melocanna zollingeri Steudel var. longispiculata Kurz. ex Munro (PROSEA), Schizostachyum longispiculatum (Kurz ex Munro) Kurz (PROSEA)
CHINESE : Zhao wa si lao zhu.
ENGLISH : Borneo schizostachyum.
FRENCH : Schizostachyum de Borneo.
MALAY : Bongulungul (Sabah), Buloh anap (Sabah), Buluh lacau (Brunei, Indonesia), Buluh tamiang (Indonesia), Pring wuluh (Indonesia), Pring jawa, Tombotuon (Sabah).
SUNDANESE : Awi bunar (Indonesia), Awi tamiyang (Indonesia).

Schizostachyum iraten Steudel (PROSEA)
SYNONYM(S) : Schizostachyum biflorum McClure (PROSEA)
ENGLISH : Bali blowpipe bamboo, Bali schizostachyum, Java schizostachyum, Sumatra schizostachyum.
FRENCH : Schizostachyum de Bali, Schizostachyum de Java, Schizostachyum de Sumatra.
MALAY : Pring wuluh (Java).
SUNDANESE : Awi bunar (Indonesia), Awi tamiyang (Indonesia).

Schizostachyum irratun Kurz (OHRN)
MALAY : Bambu tamiyang (Indonesia).
Could this taxon (specific name) be a synonym of Schizostachyum iraten ? D. Ohrnbereger says that it is of doubtful status.

Schizostachyum jaculans Holttum (PROSEA)
MALAY : Buloh kasap, Buloh sumpitan, Buloh temiang.
Photograph at BambooDownUnder, Australia.

Tom

 

[BOD]

Well Done Galemys,

I also checked the Kew gardens catalogue following your lead and they confirm the blumei species is in Temburong - the East of this country so I will go both east and west to see if I can get samples.

If I get any I'll leave them at Condex's place (I'll ask him tonight) and when Stuart comes out he can bring samples back or the group coming out can play with them if they bring their flints.

As for the "bulu" angle a friend reminded me of the fibres (like fibre glass)that came off some bamboo we were collecting which were irritating and caused a rash for him. A physical chemist he belives they could contain silica.



Stew Thanks for the offer of a flint. I'm leaving Borneo soon for Peninsula Malaysia so posting would be a difficulty as i will have no address here, just a bush hut

http://www.rbgkew.org.uk/herbarium/brunei/fams/200.htm

 

[Galemys]

I've contacted "bambooweb", a site for bamboo-enthusiasts, and the person I had mailed had not heard of the bamboo-spark method but he was willing to put my questions about it on their forum. So maybe one of the bamboo-fanatics comes up with additional information.
He also said the following: "One thing to remember about bamboo is the culms increase in silica content as they get older" So the older (in growth years) the bamboo specimen, the better.

Tom

 

[bryanr]

Wow, this has been a very interesting and educational thread. Thanks for the input guys!

Bryan

 

[BOD]

It would be helpful to know the following:

1. did the Bidayuh use green bamboo or dried sections? If the former there is no use getting lots of samples apart from a couple to try out

2. is there any description of the technique used - how to strike etc. I have no experience with flint and steel other than seeing it done by others. Should I try for a glancing blow or try and keep the surfaces in contact as long as possible , a sort of sliding blow if you know what I mean

3. By what has been said earlier I take it that the best sections are the oldest so that means I'll be felling 15-20 meter bamboo to get at the tops as blumei is a large species from what I read?


It seems that this type - S. jaculans has other uses - blowpipes. Buloh Kasap incidentally means rough bamboo

 

[Galemys]

Yesterday evening I tried striking a length of thick bamboo (a leftover from experimenting with the bamboo fire saw) with a piece of flint. I had turned off the light to enhance my chances of seeing any spark. The flint wasn't exactly sharp but I regularly got sparks coming off the bamboo! The sparks looked a bit dull in comparison to flint & steel but it was more than I had expected.
I can now understand that a bamboospecies with higher silica-content could generate better sparks and, in combination with a good 'spark' tinder, can make fire.

The piece of bamboo I used is about 4 inches in diameter and is sold as decoration in a flower shop so I cannot identify the species, but after my experiment I am quite sure that any hard bamboo will generate the dull sparks I got.
I will get some better (sharper) flint this weekend and try again to see if this produces better sparks, and also try to project the sparks on some charcloth.

Tom

 

[BOD]

Since I do not have flint perhaps I should use porcelain

I suppose not fine bone china

but the more common stuff?

 

[Galemys]

1. did the Bidayuh use green bamboo or dried sections? If the former there is no use getting lots of samples apart from a couple to try out
2. is there any description of the technique used - how to strike etc. I have no experience with flint and steel other than seeing it done by others. Should I try for a glancing blow or try and keep the surfaces in contact as long as possible , a sort of sliding blow if you know what I mean
3. By what has been said earlier I take it that the best sections are the oldest so that means I'll be felling 15-20 meter bamboo to get at the tops as blumei is a large species from what I read?

Hi Bod, I hadn't seen your post,

1 I assume that they used dried bamboo, but it doesn't eplicitly say so in the book (or in my other sources).
2 With flint & steel I normally have the flint with some charcloth on top of it, held in position with the thumb and then strike a glancing blow with the steel on a sharp edge of the flint. Yesterday with the bamboo it was the other way around; I held the bamboo piece steady and struck the flint with a glancing/shaving blow against it. If I have better flint I will try it with the bamboo as the moving piece too. As for the 'sliding blow', I don't know if it will work, I think it has to be a very fast movement but I will experiment with it & let you know.
3 I think you're right, grasses grow from below so the oldest bit should be on top


PS a sturdy piece of broken glass (bottom of a beer bottle) should also work
Tom

 

[BOD]

I'm not hoping that I'll succeed in making fire

I'd use a bow drill it seems much easier. In fact lit the wood fired BBQ with it for lunch. Friday is the Muslim sabbath so its a day off

If I get good sparks then I know that it is the right bamboo.

Maybe you can demonstrate the technique at the bush moot!

 

[Galemys]

I'm not hoping that I'll succeed in making fire
Maybe you can demonstrate the technique at the bush moot!

Me neither, but just exploring the possibilites of this method is fun enough for me.

I would love to come to the next Bornean moot, England is a bit too far from the Netherlands...

Tom

 

[Galemys]

I tried again yesterday, striking my piece of bamboo with some new pieces of flint. The flints I used had a much sharper edge so I figured it would give better sparks. Oddly enough the opposite happened; I got some weak sparks, as dull as the ones I got last week with the blunt piece of flint, but most of the time the edge of the flint 'bit' into the piece of bamboo, chopping of bamboochips that were way too big to spark.
I think I'll have to improve my striking technique, preferably before my piece of bamboo is chopped to smithereens.

Tom

 

[BOD]

Struck with a blunt instrument...

There may well be a BCUK trip to Borneo next year if enough people can make it. We made some camp furniture in the bush for them last month.

My travels have been somewhat curtailed so can't go sampling as soon as I hoped. May have to do it next month.

 

[Galemys]

I found this in an article called:

On Fire-Making in North Borneo
Sydney B. J. Skertchly
The Journal of the Anthropological Institute of Great Britain and Ireland, Vol. 19, 1890 (1890), pp. 445-452

"V- Fire from Bamboo and pottery
Pandeka, who is most skilful as a firemaker, often amused me by striking fire with a bit of broken crockery on a bamboo. He holds a long bamboo nearly upright, and taking a little of the scraped inside of bamboo in the hollow of his hand, and the crock between his finger and thumb, he strikes a spark from the siliceous coating of the bamboo by one free stroke of the arm. It requires a good hard, seasoned bamboo to work well."

The fire-syringe (fire piston), fire drill and fire saw are also depicted and described in a more detailed way. Skertchly also includes the english, dyak and malay names for the different parts of the fire piston and the tinder that was used by the locals for the fire piston, the "covering of the stem of a low palm, called by the Dyaks Apiang".

Tom

 

[BOD]

Got it!

Just back from Borneo. Got the bulu temiang.

Maybe we should write a story about the quest for the fire bamboo!

 

[Galemys]

Maybe we should write a story about the quest for the fire bamboo!

and then sell it to a Hollywood producer, it sounds like a good title!

That 's amazing news Bod! Let us know how & where you found the bulu temian bamboo. Did you try it out already or are you still busy with the new house?

On the original subject of this thread, the fire thong:
I tried again with hemp string on a split log of lime (basswood, Tilium sp). I doubled the 3 mm string this time but it still wears out, exactly at the time the smoke begins to rise. It doesn't cut into the wood as fast as a single string does though. Next step will be tripling the string and using a longer length (combined with longer strokes). This will (at least in theory) distribute the abrasion of the string over a longer length thus enhancing it's lifetime and maybe giving me the few more strokes that are needed to reach ignition.

Tom

 

[rich59]

I had a thought about cordage for this method. The problem seems to be that the cordage breaks when you put enough work into the job. Well, I was experimenting with a load of different materials for tinders today and included raffia. Raffia stood out a something that remained intact despite a lot of stress on the fibres, and was highly flexible too. Anyone tried a well made raffia cord for this? Would back twisting or platting be better to contend with the friction?

 

[BOD]

Hi Tom,

It’s a long story about how I got it. I’m using my wife’s computer and it is giving me some trouble so I won’t go into detail. After a lot of fun like heavy monsoon rain, landslides and floods I got there and was told by the Iban that it grew around there (the border of Brunei and Sarawak) and that I knew the bamboo which puzzled me!

It is a bamboo which often contains water and I have drunk from temiang stems and cooked rice in them before (but have never noticed sparks)
However, the longhouse headman and his brother who are in their 70’s said this was the fire bamboo and described 3 different methods of using temiang without prompting from me, namely bamboo and steel, bamboo and crockery and bamboo and bamboo (not recommended). It is a bamboo with many uses both utilitarian and spiritual.

Anyway I now have a bergen full of temiang lengths drying in Borneo. I posted 4 lengths to myself in West Malaysia and I am waiting for them to dry before trying it out. Remember that at least 3 different species are called “temiang” and the one that was observed to produce sparks may be a different one.

It’s best that I try it before sending it as I do not want to disappoint. The problem is that I have no flint and steel experience and may botch it. Another issue is that we collected it in pouring rain. Jamit said that there were differences in the stems we cut (not apparent to me no matter how closely I looked!) and the river was flooding at the time and I needed to return before I was cut off (the community had been cut off for a week a few weeks before) so the lengths were mixed up and I may have sent myself the lengths collected by myself!)

I have complete faith in Jamit however as I have never known him to be wrong on anything to do with jungle lore.

I have tried the rattan on bamboo method but cannot claim any expertise. The diameter of the rattan is important. About 0.75 cm seems to be right for success. The age and dryness are a factor I think.

 

[Galemys]

However, the longhouse headman and his brother who are in their 70’s said this was the fire bamboo and described 3 different methods of using temiang without prompting from me, namely bamboo and steel, bamboo and crockery and bamboo and bamboo (not recommended).

Amazing and encouraging that the knowledge is not completely gone!
What do they think of your ´quest for the fire bamboo´? Do they think we lost our minds or are they happy that people are interested in the old ways?

Tom