Looking at that picture Tom are you as confused as me about how it works? We need the article which shows how to make and use one.
Papua New Guinea native firemaking with string
- Thread starter bryanr
- Start date
-
Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.
That is two pictures now of the fire thong from Papua New Guinea. Some things are similar and others different. Both have a split piece of wood with a wedge to keep it open. Both have short thongs. However, one has the split vertical (if I interpret right the picture) and the other horizontal. The vertical one has the advantage in that there is actually smoke. The other one it not showing signs of fire, so it is less certain that it is the exact arrangement that worked.
Here is another one but I can't see any more detail.
Perhaps the unifying thing is that you can't see what is going on! Maybe the pile of tinder is crucial to keep the heat in.
Here is another one but I can't see any more detail.
Perhaps the unifying thing is that you can't see what is going on! Maybe the pile of tinder is crucial to keep the heat in.
This might hopefully help:
The stick is split down the middle, and this split is bound at one end to prevent spreading, and a stone is wedged in the other to hold it open. Tinder (yellow) is stuffed into the closed end, and the thong (green) is put between the split pieces, and pulled up and down against the top split part, pulling slightly towards the tinder. Eventually, all the coal /friction causes the tinder to ignite, and then the tinder can be pried out, or the whole stick used as a torch to light a fire.
The stick is split down the middle, and this split is bound at one end to prevent spreading, and a stone is wedged in the other to hold it open. Tinder (yellow) is stuffed into the closed end, and the thong (green) is put between the split pieces, and pulled up and down against the top split part, pulling slightly towards the tinder. Eventually, all the coal /friction causes the tinder to ignite, and then the tinder can be pried out, or the whole stick used as a torch to light a fire.
redcollective said:
Redcollective,
I wasn't confused (I never am...
) because I have seen a papua doing it in my friends holiday video! However he used a much longer thong which sounds more logical to me because you can build up more friction heat on each stroke of the thong. That doesn't mean I don't want to see the article, so I will keep an eye on Match's pyrology-site for it to appear.
I have been playing around with a sisal cord and a willow wand as thongs on a lime heartboard but both thongs broke after only a few strokes. The sisal darkened the wood so there was enough build up of heat.
The willow wasn't dry enough and caused the wood to shine. By the way, nice picture Match!
Tom
The balfour article is less explicit.... I re-read it today and you know what? I get the feeling this chap might never actually have seen anything being used himself, which is not inconceivable! Match do you have a copy of the Keegan article yet? I'm thinking of ordering it.
Another link with a few pictures, again a very short thong and the wood isn´t split, the tinder is just placed below the point of friction
http://www.caske2000.org/survival/fireIrja.htm
Tom
http://www.caske2000.org/survival/fireIrja.htm
Tom
Nice link Galemys.
I had a go at this today too. "Waxed sash cord " was never likely to get the friction. But it gave me an idea of the setup. The wood did go a bit brown and felt hot.
I think I need somthing like leather for the thong - something that will stand up to the friction?
I had a go at this today too. "Waxed sash cord " was never likely to get the friction. But it gave me an idea of the setup. The wood did go a bit brown and felt hot.
I think I need somthing like leather for the thong - something that will stand up to the friction?
there is only one long flexible material I can think of that would withstand the friction required to achieve the necessary heat and that is rattan, which is probably why the technique is restricted to countries in which rattan is readily available.
I wonder about vine and also spruce rootlets. Both are very resilient and durable. I have seen spruce roots used as cordage for a bow drill and the wild grape vine growing behind my garage is extremely tough stuff. Perhaps its time for an experiment although I will have to give some thought to an alternative to the usual bamboo piece in which the coal forms. Perhaps a split limb, carved out to make a place for the dust to accumulate, then bound back together.
Annoyingly I've got both articles, but I've been told I can't explicitly reproduce any of them without consent, and that I've been told can take up to 6 weeks
I'm tempted to try ivy as a thong for this - something like that might be tough and durable enough to withstand the friction. Leather might be a possible alternative. All I do know is that the thonging isn't something that you can expect to be around forever. Rattan is indeed the perfect material, as its like a flexible piece of wood - more like a fire saw than a fire thong. But even this I've been told is traditionally greased with pig fat before use to keep it flexible (presumably not on the part in contact with the friction-generating surface...)
I'm tempted to try ivy as a thong for this - something like that might be tough and durable enough to withstand the friction. Leather might be a possible alternative. All I do know is that the thonging isn't something that you can expect to be around forever. Rattan is indeed the perfect material, as its like a flexible piece of wood - more like a fire saw than a fire thong. But even this I've been told is traditionally greased with pig fat before use to keep it flexible (presumably not on the part in contact with the friction-generating surface...)
Last weekend I tried the fire thong method with a piece of split sycamore. For a thong I used some brown string of unknown origin (it is definitely made of plant matter, maybe hemp). The string was a bit too thin so I rolled it up to a thicker cord with three strands. First I filled the split with the fluffy stuff that collects in the dryer. Then I cut out some notches on each side of the upperpart of the split to guide the cord.
I inserted the cord and started to pull the ends alternately. The notches quickly scorched but after that their wasn't enough friction, and the cord left a polished surface. I still managed to break the rope twice though...
With the length of cord now shrinking with each attempt I stopped to rethink my steps. I then first, roughened up the wood surface and secondly, sprinkled some fine sand (having a budgie as a pet has it's pros ) across the rope. Then I tried again. And now for the first time, after just a few strokes, a whisp of smoke appeared! Sadly, 2 seconds after that my cord broke again, leaving two bits that where too small too work with .
Draft conclusion:
this set up needs some improvements but has shown some success.
Next time I will try a softer wood because the rope degraded too fast, the wood only showed a slight indentation. Will try out lime (basswood, Tilia sp.) as soon as I find a decent bit (and some string too play with).
Tom
I inserted the cord and started to pull the ends alternately. The notches quickly scorched but after that their wasn't enough friction, and the cord left a polished surface. I still managed to break the rope twice though...
With the length of cord now shrinking with each attempt I stopped to rethink my steps. I then first, roughened up the wood surface and secondly, sprinkled some fine sand (having a budgie as a pet has it's pros
) across the rope. Then I tried again. And now for the first time, after just a few strokes, a whisp of smoke appeared! Sadly, 2 seconds after that my cord broke again, leaving two bits that where too small too work with . Draft conclusion:
this set up needs some improvements but has shown some success.
Next time I will try a softer wood because the rope degraded too fast, the wood only showed a slight indentation. Will try out lime (basswood, Tilia sp.) as soon as I find a decent bit (and some string too play with).
Tom
I played about with this technique at the Scottish Meet,and didn't manage to have any luck.
I tried the piece of rattan that George kindly sent to me, but unfortunately, depsite greasing parts of it it was very brittle and snapped before much more than a few wisps of smoke appeared (beech as a 'hearth'). I then tried again, using a smaller rounder piece of hearth and some sisal cordage woven by Toddy - however this just acted as a polishing cloth and left the wood slightly brown and shiny, with no real smoking.
I've done a bit more reading, and have discovered that bamboo is a good wood for this technique, so I'm going to try some alternatives (leather, sisal, sash cord) on a split bamboo cane to see if I get any further... I'll report if I have any success or failure.
I tried the piece of rattan that George kindly sent to me, but unfortunately, depsite greasing parts of it it was very brittle and snapped before much more than a few wisps of smoke appeared (beech as a 'hearth'). I then tried again, using a smaller rounder piece of hearth and some sisal cordage woven by Toddy - however this just acted as a polishing cloth and left the wood slightly brown and shiny, with no real smoking.
I've done a bit more reading, and have discovered that bamboo is a good wood for this technique, so I'm going to try some alternatives (leather, sisal, sash cord) on a split bamboo cane to see if I get any further... I'll report if I have any success or failure.
match said:
Shame it snapped on you Match
- admittedly it was probably about 20 years old so may well have been too dried out and brittle.The piece of rattan that I sent you was a bowstring from an Irianese black palm bow that I brought back some years ago - identical to those that I have seen used for lighting fires in this way. The technique with the split stick and the tinder in the cleft is pretty much what I've seen used and the rattan tended to be sawn back and forward using only about a foot or so of it in contact with the wood.
I have seen them break a few times - but I suppose locals soon get the balance between pressure against the wood and the breaking point of the rattan - I suppose they'd have to if they depend on it for making their fires!
Anyway - I'm watching this thread with interest to see if anyone is successful with any unusual materials.
Good luck.
George
I've not tried again since my last post in this thread so still no success. I did read up on it and found a description of this method and various other firestarting techniques used in Papua New Guinea on a Papuan Heritage database (in Dutch). Here's some of it translated:
"The fire thong itself is as a rule made of a thin piece of split rattan, 4 to 5 mm wide and 3 mm thick. Sometimes it is made of split bamboo. It is coiled in rings and taken for trips in net bags or worn as sets of bracelets on the lower and upper arms. Round unsplit attan is sometimes used but not much, presumably because it causes less friction when sawing"
They use 1 -1.5 meter of split rattan at a time. After some 15 strokes the smoke starts to rise.
"because of the powerful sawing motion the fire thong is nearly consumed and often breaks, when the first attempt fails a new piece of rattan is uncoiled."
Good luck!
Tom
"The fire thong itself is as a rule made of a thin piece of split rattan, 4 to 5 mm wide and 3 mm thick. Sometimes it is made of split bamboo. It is coiled in rings and taken for trips in net bags or worn as sets of bracelets on the lower and upper arms. Round unsplit attan is sometimes used but not much, presumably because it causes less friction when sawing"
They use 1 -1.5 meter of split rattan at a time. After some 15 strokes the smoke starts to rise.
"because of the powerful sawing motion the fire thong is nearly consumed and often breaks, when the first attempt fails a new piece of rattan is uncoiled."
Good luck!
Tom
In addition to yesterday's post, the site also mentions a firestarting technique that I didn't know of, so it may be new to more people.
It is basically the same as flint & steel but instead of the steel, a piece of bamboo is hit with flint to create the sparks. The flint can also be replaced by a piece of glass or iron.
Tom
It is basically the same as flint & steel but instead of the steel, a piece of bamboo is hit with flint to create the sparks. The flint can also be replaced by a piece of glass or iron.
Tom
Galemys said:
Eh? Have you got any detail on that technique Galemys as I can't for the life of me imagine how that works!
had a go yesterday with a leather thonng form an old leather belt, well it got very hot there was a familiar burny smell so i went hell for leather(i'm sure theres a pun there somewhere ) but alas just a shiney bit of wood!
as others suggested i added a pinch of sand which imroved it but not enough!
) but alas just a shiney bit of wood! as others suggested i added a pinch of sand which imroved it but not enough!
redcollective said:
Red,
I was a bit puzzled too when I read it! Apparently it is possible to strike sparks from bamboo.
I found another site on firestarting (http://www.futura-sciences.com/comprendre/d/imprimer.php?id=526, it's in french, hope you can read it) mentioning this technique briefly, it is/was apparently used in borneo as well:
- A : Percussion pierre et bambou
A Bornéo, d'après des assertions anciennes, on allumait du feu en frappant une variété de bambou avec un tesson de poterie. Ces étonnantes observations ont été récemment confirmées en Papouasie où on a vu allumer du feu par percussion d'un bambou avec une morceau de hache polie : un nouveau défi pour les expérimentateurs (la qualité du bambou utilisé est sans doute importante).
My French is not that good so I don't know what a "tesson de poterie" (piece of claywork/pottery?) and a "morceau de hache polie" is. In the last sentence it is mentioned that the quality of the bamboo piece is an important factor in this technique.
I'll keep on digging to find out more about it. Will post again if I find something interesting.
Tom
Translation:
Whilst traveling in Borneo I have noticed that certain rattans, vines and bamboo emit tiny sparks when chopped with a parang, this sparking appears to be caused by sand which is embedded in the structure of the plant. The jungle floor is entirely composed of sand and I assume that this sand which covers the exterior of a new plant somehow gets enveloped into the plant as it grows, whether this assertion is correct and what the mechanics of it are I do not know. The result is dull sparks which are only really noticed when chopping the material in the dark, these I suppose could be use in the same way as those sparks emitted from iron pyrites. But having said that the bamboo does not spark nearly as much, getting a directional cast would be extremely difficult and due to the sparks low temperature this method would probably be one of the hardest fire lighting techniques imaginable
