Pancheons!

[tombear]

Hi folks
the unfortunate among you may remember my mild obsession with soft oatcakes and the equipment related to making the same, and my search for a pancheon ( like a wide, short terracotta flower pot with no drain hole and glazed in a cream or white on the inside and rim only, although some are glazed on the outside in brown ) the traditional bowl for making the yeasty batter or rising bread in.

I've not been able to find a original or a modern copy that I could a ford ( antiques go for , well antique prices unles rough and the artisan made ones 65 to 75, too rich for my blood.

Anyroad, I've just stumbled on these guys

http://www.butterwyndpottery.co.uk/p/pots.html

and being slightly flush from down sizing my collection of giant steel paper weights feel like treating myself with a couple of sizes and a colander. The major stumbling block is they are a five and a half hour drive away up in Dundee, and I don't even drive.

i've sent them a message ( no reply yet but it's only been overnight.) to see if the ship ( unlikely from what I found on their site, I hope I've missed something ) or if they supply anyone down here in the north west.

incidentally at the weekend we visited the Weavers Cottage Museum in the town, first time open since the ground floor was flooded out, and I noticed that one of the two Pancheons they have stacked in the kitchen display (in the far corner so I couldn't get a close look) had what seamed to be a rather elegantly thin wooden lid, something I'd not seen before. Next time we go I'll get a closer look, take pics and measure it up.

atb

Tom

 

[Toddy]

Dundee is do-able Tom, if Himself takes the bus and goes for a walk
Heaven knows you've wrapped and posted enough china to me, I'm sure I can pack up and courier it down to you if the potters won't.

The wooden lids I do know of. It kept the dust and flies out of the rising barm or dough. Granny had one that fitted over the wide shallow bowl she made crowdie in. The same lid fitted the draining bowl (colander ?) too. The latter bowl fitted over the top of the first one and drained into it. Both were chunky pottery. They sat a bit like a bain marie.
There was a spare 'lid' kept in the kitchen too, for bigger baking bowls, it was just an old round breadboard that had had a knob added to the centre of it.

M

 

[tombear]

That would be extremely kind of you both! I'll see if they reply to me and get back to you off thread as soon as I know more.

This is is another bit of serendipity as our contact at the Weavers Cottage museum down the road was putting out feelers to see if I would demonstrate oatcake making to some school groups later in the year. What with the regulations I doubt we'd be able to give them owt we cook there but we can always buy the factory made stuff they sell at Tescos. The place has a tearoom so all the hygiene rules and what not will be covered.

More re as soon as I know owt.

Thanks again!

Tom

 

[bigbear]

Lovely, must lovely, if they do post I could be in bother !

 

[tombear]

Not heard back from them yet. Worryingly they don't seam to have altered their website since December 2015.

Theres a a phone number so I could try that tomorrow.

ATB

Tom

 

[tombear]

Excellent news, they are currently on holiday, hence the delay in replying and they do post stuff seciurely to folk! When they get back they will send me pics of their current stock with prices etc.

They've warned me that their versions ain't so thickly walled and heavy as the originals but since I've seen a wide variety of them in museums etc that bothers me not!

AtB

Tom

 

[bigbear]

Toddy, your post reminded me thatI recall my granny having one with a similar wooden lid, she had long stopped baking her own bread and used it to store spuds in. No idea what became of it, mind.

 

[tombear]

Can either of you remember how the wooden lids were constructed please. I've just asked the folk at the weavers cottage if I can get my paws on their example next time they are open but it would be good to see other examples. When I made a ash lid for my little trade kettle I simply made a scaled down version of a coppers lid, flat planks glued side by side, no tongue and grooving, with two battens going across pegged on and a third between them shaped into a handle.

From the glimpse of the one at the cottage it was s much finer affair, some closes grained stuff like box or lime and carved into a dome inside and out. I'm hoping I'm wrong and it's just thinned down towards the edges on the top. Doable either way just easiers better!

atb

Tom

 

[Toddy]

That's good news Tom

One of the lids was literally an old breadboard (nowhere near as thick and clumsy looking as modern ones, but thin, fine, probably sycamore, scrubbed so often it had softened all the edges) but the other was, from what I recall, just two or three slats pieced together, shaped and nailed onto a couple of narrow battons. Those were shaped at the ends so that they fit snuggly into the bowl….stopped the lid sliding into it end on, or coggling and not sitting straight and letting things into the milk/cream/cheese.
The 'nails' were hammered in and there was some kind of amber coloured stuff packed into the holes (I mind the pattern of dots ), so that there was no rust to drip into the bowl. No idea what the stuff was. Some kind of caulk or wax I expect. Might even have been putty I suppose
Think blockboard. It was meant to be wide but stable

They had no qualms about scrubbing wood back then, usually with loads of salt in the water….so iron or copper would react.
I'd use wood where you can Tom, even for dowels and the like, especially if the wood's going to be getting steamy or scrubbed.

atb,
M

 

[tombear]

Cheers! Here's the one I made for the trade kettle

It's been gathering dust over the winter hung Fatima beam so i better clean it and oil it before I use it.

atb

tom

 

[Toddy]

That's a 'trade kettle' ? I didn't know. I would just have called that a jeely pan there's three like it in my shed. I use them for dyeing these days.
The lid looks the business though. Granny's was a lot smaller for the bowls.

M

 

[tombear]

That's what they are sold as for the U.S. Reenactment market, copied from what we were shipping out to the colonies way back when. Brass with tin plating on the inside and a not quite round bottom. You can get more accurate ones now ( the ears the handle fits on should be thick stamped out bits, mines cast , still riveted on but a purist would sneer at them. That one will do me, not too big, about 2 quarts if I remember right.

atb

Tom

 

[zornt]

Look at the Jas Townsend and Son. Web site. They have all kinds of things. Shipping from the U S would be prohibitive, but you could get a lot of ideas for diy things.

 

[tombear]

Oh aye they do some good stuff and the short videos they do are quite well done. Shipping is the bugger. Crazy Crow are a bit cheaper, more mountain man than revolutionary war and were very helpful when I wanted the kettle shipping over. I particularly like American cutting patterns as they tend to extend to the Lardy sizes that fit me!

atb

tom

 

[tombear]

Boy was I wrong! Herself nipped into the Weavers Cottage for me armed with her iPhone and my travelling folding ruler while i wrangled three revolting teens who had had enough of museums for the day. I was completely wrong about the pancheon lid, perhaps it was wishful thinking but the lids as crude as anything, will do the job but no work of art.

Boards where 5/8th of a inch thick, nailed together, handles screwed on. I'll peg mine when I do it. One thing I'm hopeless at is identifying types of wood used, anyone like to say what they think the stuff used here was.

Earlier we had spent a hour at the excellent little museum in Bolton Hall in T' Wood. Most of the kit inside was 16th to 18th C and in so far as herselfs iPhone was capable we took plenty of pics. I promised to take them some rushlights in as they have several nips and a couple of gressits. Much to my delight they had some oatcake making kit, a griddleboard, a wooden turner, hanging bacstone and best of all a huge, 17 inch about, wooden ladle which I will source a piece of wood to make a copy of, We also took pics of a couple of well kuskas I suppose you'd call them, wooden bowls with single integral handles, I'll try and find the dates for them but they were very old, I would not be surprised if they turned out to be anything post Tudor. If anyones interested in any of these I can PM you the pics. Next time I will take a real camera and forensics photo scales.

ATB

Tom

 

[Mesquite]

The wood looks like pine Tom

 

[Toddy]

Looks like pine to me.
Needing a blooming good scrubbing, pine.

M

 

[tombear]

Thanks! That's cheap and cheerful! May have some 6 inch pine board laying about. May take some artistic licence and use somat nicer.

Wish I could tell what this baby is made from

I'll probably be doing it in sycamore, if I've a piece big enough!

ATB

Tom

 

[tombear]

We got back pretty late but the nice neighbours ( as opposed to the horrible ones ) had taken delivery of my package from Butterwynde Pottery so I have

I am chuffed to bits with them. The biggest is 15 inches in diameter and I got it mainly for rising bread in, I'll make a wooden lid for it as soon as I can find some suitable timber. The other is 13.5" diameter and the oatcake ladel I made is a perfect fit, resting on the bottom the hook fits on the rim spot on. Pure chance but it's good when that happens! I'll do a lid of course. The colander/sieve is 8.5" dia. Looks bigger in the photo for some reason. I'll make a stretcher to go across the pancheons like they used in diarys. Looked like a good idea so worth nicking!

atb 😀

Tom

 

[bigbear]

Oooh yes, very nice, they are quite the thing for home baking, as said above it brings back happy memories of my Gran. Could be tempted by them myself.