Opportunity to rent woodland near Belvoir Castle, Leicestershire

[Elines]

Today's Melton Times - Thursday 25 January 2013 - contains an advert for letting of woodland in the Belvoir Estate (pronounced beever).

Sounds like letting for bushcraft purposes would be seriously considered.

Thought there may be some interested folk on this site

 

[Mesquite]

Nice find Chris

If only it were closer to home...

 

[woof]

Not far from me, but she(the Duchess)is extremely tight, this land will not be cheap. I will speak to someone who has contacts with the estate & see if i can find out about pricing.
Rob

 

[Elines]

Not far from me, but she(the Duchess)is extremely tight, this land will not be cheap. I will speak to someone who has contacts with the estate & see if i can find out about pricing.
Rob

Thanks - I had thought of phoning myself to make a general enquiry but always better to have a contact.

 

[woof]

I've sent him a text, when he comes back to me i'll let you know.

Rob

 

[Bushcraftsman]

keep us updated Rob!

 

[woof]

I'm still waiting. I have emailed him today, but on a work related matter.

Rob

 

[TurboGirl]

Wow Their land is lovely although a bit rhodedendron-clad... I bet they're looking for a 'school' type business to set up there for a permenant occupany though, better revenues than we folk could muster... it'll be an interesting one to watch, whatever the outcomes are!

 

[Elines]

...................... I bet they're looking for a 'school' type business to set up there for a permenant occupany though, better revenues than we folk could muster.....

They may well be Sall, but I think they are quite innovative/keen to try different sources of fund-raising. Perhaps a casual use in a specific area which had a main use as something else would be of interest to them - as there would be extra income but no additional costs.

 

[TurboGirl]

They're big, central and used enough to hosting larger events to cope with the bushcraft shows/ gathering markets etc, that'd be a good source of related income to them too possibly

 

[Elines]

Ok .... following PM discussions with Woof, we agreed that I would contact Belvoir Estates.

I telephoned and then followed up with an e-mail :
.

"As discussed I am confirming an interest in possible use of part of the Belvoir Estate for casual weekend bushcraft use.

I give below some early thoughts to help you see what might be involved

We would be interested in informal periodic but paid use of a portion of the estate for bushcrafting

Policy is 'leave no trace'

Don't need a water supply/formal toilet

Probably long weekend use only - ?once a month on average

?Max of 20 people and likely to be much lower

Could fit in with other uses/users on an agreed basis

Happy to discuss any concerns

Our wish-list includes:​

• plenty of open trees for hammocks and tents/bivvies​
• reasonably flat​
• lack of bramble/ferns/undergrowth​
• variety of woods eg conifer/birch/beech/holly/ash​
• within 100 yards (ish) of car access​
• car parking​

Hope we are able to come to a mutually satisfactory agreement and I look forward to hearing from you."
.
​

I today received a reply as follows:
.

"Hi Chris, many thanks for this. I think we can find suitable woodland. You would have to have min. £5m public liability insurance. If you wish to have fires, woodland fire insurance would also be required, or contained within your PLI.​

Based on 12 months, 1 visit/month, with say 15 people, what sort of annual rental payment are we talking about? ​

We would have to charge VAT in addition, currently at 20%.​

I look forward to hearing from you, regards, Richard"

​

To respond sensibly to this I think we need to know:

• realistically - how many people are likely to be interested in weekend stays on the Belvoir estate. My guess is about an average of 5 or certainly nearer 5 than 15 (feel free to prove me wrong though)
• A reasonable overnight charge - assuming no water supply or toilets - I am thinking of something like £5- £6 per night including VAT
• likely cost of public liability insurance - does anybody have any idea what this would be?

If we assume that:

• ?5 people attended
• for 2 nights (say Friday and Saturday)
• 10 times a year
• at £5.50 per night

that implies an income of £550 to Belvoir Estates/£550 expenditure by participants with - additionally - the cost of insurance being borne by the participants.

We also need to know how it might operate. For example, if these figures are anything like reasonable then I can't see that any individual will fork out £500+ pounds, and simply hope to recover it from people who actually turn up.

So maybe there should be some kind of payment in advance by a core of people to cover the 'contract' cost with a higher rate for additional casual users. That additional income from casual use could then be used to reduce the cost in future years to participants

I have no experience or knowledge of how similar operations work so any constructive comments welcome.

Please bear in mind in commenting that Belvoir Estaes can easily see this thread and the comments made.

Views?
Comments?

 

[ged]

Kudos for taking the initiative on this, Chris.

Comments?

Are you proposing to create a legally constituted organisation (club, society, whatever) to which everyone belongs (or contracts ad hoc) and which will take out the public liability insurance?

What do people do in Scotland when people exercise their right to roam?

 

[Shewie]

That's just down the road from my folks place

 

[realearner]

Public liability is not as bad as you think. Go online and you might be surprised, I used to be self employed in industry and carried minimum £5.000.000 and about £280 PA. But check, adding fire in a forest might add.

 

[Elines]

Are you proposing to create a legally constituted organisation (club, society, whatever) to which everyone belongs (or contracts ad hoc) and which will take out the public liability insurance?

Thanks Ged.

I am seeking advice/comments on the best way to proceed, based on the practical experience and knowledge of people on the site in a way that achieves what we want:

• somewhere to go and play
• with minimum hassle
• at reasonable cost
• minimum financial and other risk to the people involved

 

[Elines]

Public liability is not as bad as you think. Go online and you might be surprised, I used to be self employed in industry and carried minimum £5.000.000 and about £280 PA. But check, adding fire in a forest might add.

OK thanks for that

I go away on holiday in a few days so will not be able to do much searching etc for a while

 

[shaggystu]

I don't have anything to offer in the way of advice Chris but would be more than willing to help out in any way I can, it's always good to have somewhere else to "meet". Let me know if I can help in any way.

Cheers,

Stuart

 

[TurboGirl]

I think it would be advisable to approach NFU for a quote on the PLI, they're specialists in the field (pun intended!) and it might provide a way in to cheap insurance for the participating 'partners', maybe!

I think White Rose meet is organised on a similar basis- lump sum up front, costs recouped from meet weekends. I might be wrong on that, apologies if so to the White Rose organisers

Some of the woodland is very unkempt, perhaps these areas would be more suitable than the more manicured parts? (I'm thinking the village entrance round the back by the stream, to the right of the road where the military exhibitirs drive in for the steam rally... theres good road with field parking at the bottom) I guess that'd be down to the groundkeepers who seem to be clearing rhodedendron takeovers bit by bit although some of it seems to be being left as part of the castles garden history.... If we were doing actual woodland maintainence on site it could require a higher level PL/ other insurance if using chainsaws

You're blooming tops for taking on the negotiations, Chris, I can't imagine anyone more acceptable to all parties for the role! I might be able to do every other months meets (more than 1 meet a month would end in divorce and I want to continue with Northwood ones) but would be happy to pay up front if it helps... a Woodland Timeshare, sounds cracking!

 

[Elines]

I think it would be advisable to approach NFU for a quote on the PLI, they're specialists in the field (pun intended!) and it might provide a way in to cheap insurance for the participating 'partners', maybe!

I think White Rose meet is organised on a similar basis- lump sum up front, costs recouped from meet weekends. I might be wrong on that, apologies if so to the White Rose organisers

Some of the woodland is very unkempt, perhaps these areas would be more suitable than the more manicured parts? (I'm thinking the village entrance round the back by the stream, to the right of the road where the military exhibitirs drive in for the steam rally... theres good road with field parking at the bottom) I guess that'd be down to the groundkeepers who seem to be clearing rhodedendron takeovers bit by bit although some of it seems to be being left as part of the castles garden history.... If we were doing actual woodland maintainence on site it could require a higher level PL/ other insurance if using chainsaws

You're blooming tops for taking on the negotiations, Chris, I can't imagine anyone more acceptable to all parties for the role! I might be able to do every other months meets (more than 1 meet a month would end in divorce and I want to continue with Northwood ones) but would be happy to pay up front if it helps... a Woodland Timeshare, sounds cracking!

Thanks Sall

NFU - good idea

White Rose - can anyone with experience of a similar site offer advice?

Re specific areas - I don't know the estate at all well - having only been in a very tiny part of it

'Taking on negotiations' - at this stage I am merely seeing what is possible/level of interest. Until I can assess those I am not commiting myself to the next stage - in particular I am not committing to put myself or my family at any financial risk.

The level of declared interest will need to be pretty high for it to be a goer as my experience suggests that for 'normal' meets the drop-out rate from those initially declaring an interest seems quite high. That's why payment up front seems a pretty important requirement to me. It minimises the financial risk for the 'organiser(s)'.

 

[Elines]

I don't have anything to offer in the way of advice Chris but would be more than willing to help out in any way I can, it's always good to have somewhere else to "meet". Let me know if I can help in any way.

Cheers,

Stuart

Thanks Stu - will do.

At this stage it is help in clarifying how to arrange things that is the main help needed.