Newbie Bushcraft Setup

[markie*mark0]

So my first post, newbie to the forum, long time camping / bushcraft enthusiast. Although I must admit, it has mostly been "normal" camping, by that I mean loading the car upto the hilt and taking everything apart from the kitchen sink lol

My aim is to become less reliant on the car full of gear and more self supporting, i.e. better bushcraft skills / better camp setup (read lightweight.) Final goal ideally is to be dropped off up river/lake and then paddle along at my own pace (canoe vs. kayak) and then set up a light weight camp in a suitable spot and make a 2 day trip out of it, obviously supporting myself +1 (my young son) for the whole journey.

So as you've probably guessed I have a ton of questions !!


Firstly using the K.I.S.S. principle I was thinking along the lines off……


Sleep in = Sleeping bag + Bivi Bag
Sleep on = inflatable mat
Sleep under = tent + tarp
Cook on = omni fuel stove / trangia 27 / utensils
Carry it in = 60 / 70 Ltr rucksack
Food = ????
Drink = ????
travel in = canoe VS. kayak
Clothes = 2nd set of dry cloths
Other = (Small wash bag) - (Fire stick / match / lighter) - (sharps / knife, axe, multitool) - (Emergency first aid kit)

Most of the above needs x2 for my lad (apart from the obvious)


Sleep in
I currently have a 1-2 season sleeping bag, but obviously If im planning on any camping in the next few months I need something a little better!
I was thinking along the lines of a 4-5 season, but they all seem to be of the "mummy" variety. Anyone have any good recommendations?

I never had the need for a bivi bag but if the opportunity arises where I can sleep without my tent I'd like to do so. Recommendations anyone?

Sleep On
I've always either used large inflatable airbeds (when swmbo attends) or the simple roll up, but I find the roll up leaves me with a poor nights sleep, so opted for the self inflatable mat, again never using one of these im looking for suggestions on good ones that would be able to fit inside a bivi bag?

Sleep Under
Tent wise I've been using a Kyham Sherpa 2man, which has been a good tent and I have no complaints apart from the packed size, imo it is simply to big when packed up to be considered for lightweight use.
So im open to suggestions as to which tent suits my needs, lightweight, suitable for British weather 2 man.

I've recently bought a nylon brass holed tarp, but soon found out that it wasn't upto much lol so im looking at the genuine surplus army basha for a half decent tarp.

Cook on
The stove I currently have is far to big to take so I was thinking along the lines of the Omni fuel stove as reviewed here + Trangia 27 kit, a friend has the Coleman dual fuel stove which I like the look of, but I think the one in review suits my needs better, as mentioned it packs snugly with the trangia.

Carry it in
Never really needed a rucksack to carry all my gear so always used smaller bags/holdall's so I was thinking of a 60 / 70 Ltr rucksack? open to suggestions though.

Food
Now in this dept, I've always had the luxury of a cooler box so it wasn't really a problem. But since im trying to "simplify" things what are your guys + gals suggestions? what do you usually take on a 2day trip?

Drink
Same as above really, I have no idea which route to take here? how much water would I need to carry for a 2day trip? should I buy purification equip etc?

Travel
Being dropped off at a start point & being picked up at and end point isn't so much of a problem. But the Canoe Vs. Kayak debate is lol, for the last few years I've always used solo kayak's but have never needed to take any gear with me. Last year I used a friends coleman open top canoe on Bala lake in north wales, this was great as it would be able to take loads of gear plus extra people, downside was it was very "tippy" all you would need is for an inexperienced person to jump aboard and I reckon you'd be over and under !

So again im open to suggestions ??? I've seen a Perception Vista (tandem) and that looked like it could take plenty of gear (+my lad lol) but obviously restricted compared to the open top canoe's…..

I was thinking of joining the BCU and then finding somewhere to rent a Canoe / Kayak and try a few of each until I had found what im looking for? does anyone know anywhere who does this?


Clothes
2nd set of cloths stored in a dry bag just incase. Im thinking duplicate everything on my person boots, socks, pants, underpants, t-shirt, jumper ?

Other
Small wash bag containing toothbrush, paste, soap ?
Fire lighting equip i.e. fire stick / matches / lighter….
Sharps i.e. knife / axe / multitool
Emergency first aid kit



I know it’s a fair bit of kit to purchase especially considering a large portion of it will be x2 but no doubt you all agree it will be worth it

So please don me with your knowledge and point me in the right direction to start building up my kit



thanks Mark

 

[Morrolan]

I will make a quick observation - if you are going by kayak, a 60/70 litre rucksack isn't going to fit in any stowage hatches. If you are going by canoe, having everything in one bag makes balancing the boat a little harder, and also more awkward as you have to take stuff out to get to other stuff.

If you do go with the "1 big bag" approach, I highly recommend splitting this down with drybags inside according to use. I recommend Exped Drybags for use inside a rucksack, but they aren't strong enough to be used on their own. You can get them from a lot of places but £20 for a set of 4 is good. Don't feel tempted or pressured into going for the olive green or black - practicality says that at night under a head-torch, bright colours make things much easier to find!

 

[markie*mark0]

I will make a quick observation - if you are going by kayak, a 60/70 litre rucksack isn't going to fit in any stowage hatches. If you are going by canoe, having everything in one bag makes balancing the boat a little harder, and also more awkward as you have to take stuff out to get to other stuff.

If you do go with the "1 big bag" approach, I highly recommend splitting this down with drybags inside according to use. I recommend Exped Drybags for use inside a rucksack, but they aren't strong enough to be used on their own. You can get them from a lot of places but £20 for a set of 4 is good. Don't feel tempted or pressured into going for the olive green or black - practicality says that at night under a head-torch, bright colours make things much easier to find!

Thanks for the advice, tbh i didn't even think about a big rucksack unbalancing the Canoe, but if i went down the Kayak route then i was considering using dry bags & splitting it down. suppose that makes the choice of the ruck sack quite important then

 

[Morrolan]

It also depends on if you will be required to do much walking - if you will, or if your setup is heavy, the most important thing about your rucksack is that it fits your body size and shape! A padded belt that sits on your hips will take the majority of the weight, with the shoulder straps largely balancing the pack and making it follow your body, rather than your body follow the rucksack (to the ground, usually!)

A big rucksack is like having an extra person on board - a better option might be to pack stuff in heavier duty dry-bags that can be distributed more evenly around the canoe - also keeping the centre of balance lower.

 

[Shewie]

I'm an open canoeist myself so I tend to use one of these as my main kit bag plus a few extra ones for stuff I might need on the journey. Getting the trim right isn't so bad when you've got nothing else in there, just try and keep everything central.

A few pointers for the rest of your kit list ..

Sleep in :- I like mummy bags so can only recommend those I've used really, the Snugpak Elite range are good, the Elite 4 is a superb bag for british winters. What sort of budget have you got for a doss bag ? For a bivvy you can't go far wrong with an army surplus goretex number.

Sleep on :- The Alpkit mats are good, depends if you're carrying them far but the Dozer (formally Fat Aeric) takes some beating for comfort. Exped Down mats are lush too but you pay for it.

Cook on :- Have a search for "hobbo" stoves on here for some good ideas, maybe carry a small meths burner too for when a fire is a no no.

Carry it in :- done that already

Food/ Drink :- Again try doing a search for something like "menus" and see what turns up, check out the Lovely Grub section too

The rest you've already sussed out by the sound of it, a decent fixed blade and folding saw is a useful combo and should see you right for most tasks in the woods. Don't forget a decent first aid kit if you're carrying sharps

 

[Everything Mac]

questions:

is money an issue?
do you have canoe experience?


Getting a bit of experience in a canoe should be your priority before you get all the kit IMO.


kit wise:

check out this website for sleeping bags and other high quality kit
http://www.britishmilitarysurplus.co.uk/


Sharps:
http://www.heinnie.com/Knives/Mora-Knives/c-1-92-304/

get a folding saw from B+Q - I bought one for a fiver in asda three years ago and it is doing well. though laplander saws come highly recommended.

axe? - if you want one then you won't go far wrong with a gransfors axe. these are top of the line IMO. - if money is an issue then all you need for general stuff is a cheap hatchet: Bacho make good axes which are relatively cheap. - also check ebay.


I have a British army bergan for my carrying stuff needs. - good bit of kit. Can't recommend anything else as I have no experience with anything else.

inflatable mats can be had at most good outdoor shops - thermarest are good. Can't remember what make mine is.

Try and find a swedish army trangia stove - great stuff!

all the best
Andy

 

[Paul_B]

Find and join your local canoe club. IIRC correctly Warrington has an active club nearby. Reason? They have skilled people in most canoe disciplines and their knowledge what you want to get hold of in order to enjoy your trip. Also they have courses to speed you on your way to obtaining the necessary skill set. Also they are most likely to own kayaks and canoes for you to hire or borrow free of charge in some cases. It saves you spending over a grand on a canoe to find it really isn't for you. You can then learn on a range of gear and find what suits you. Plus you are most likely able to find like minded people to actually go out with. Bear in mind if you are going down rivers and there are any rapids then I was always taught, less than 3 there must never be. That means if you are in solo kayaks with your son you need another person (or two as your son is unlikely to be strong enough to pull you out of the water when you have got trashed and are wiped out (not a problem if you stick to lakes and flat rivers). Note that if you come out of you canoe or kayak in the middle of a lake you will tire out well before you get your boat to the shore.

I hate to be a spoilsport but I believe safety first. It just sounds like you have done a bit of kayaking but possibly not that experienced. no offence.

Gear - Alpkit dry bags are cheap. I actually use a 20 litre one in rucksack form as my day sack the gourdon. It cost £12.50 and is 600g of comfy and totally waterproof sack.

Tent - if tarping why? If camping then I rate vango as good and cheap tents. I have the spectre 200 which has a good space for two large adults or 1.5 adults worth and some gear. Plenty of storage space too in neat alcoves at each end of the tent between fly and inner. Can be found for as little at £50 but it now costs about £120 IIRC.

Bivvy I like Rab SZ or the other Rab one storm I think both about £50 but the SZ (survival zone) can occasionally be found for £40 at Field and trek. Army surplus = cheap but heavy and probably bulky.

Mat - Therma rest 3/4 length. Compact and light enough. neo 3/4 if you have too much money and putting inside a tough bivvy will protect it to some extent. REmember the 3/4 leaves your feet and lower legs on thee ground so use a sack or other kit underneath for insulation. It is the mat underneath you that provides most of your insulation from the cold ground not the down in you sleeping bag which loses insulation performance almost completely when compressed by your body.

Sleeping bag - Snugpak = big and heavy. Take a good look at ph designs website. This week it the last week of a sale. You can pick up minim 300 or minim 500 UL sleeping bags. The 500 is warmer and TBH is good enough for winter IF you have a good mat. Remember the down when compressed offers next to no insulation, that is the real reason for a mat. An airbed has not got good insulation as convection takes heat away from you.

Thing is sleeping bags on this site seems to mean snugpac. Personally I prefer other more lightweight brands and down too. It means you get more insulation for less bulk and weight. Down is also longer lasting and works in a wider temp range than synthetics. When wet it is not good. Some down bags are black inside so you can turn inside out and they lose their moisture from you sleeping quicker. Note a good drybag will mean the sleepng bag stays dry. It is not hard to keep down sry with care, it really is.

Stove - can't really beat a remote canister gas stove IMHO. Easier to use, lighter and generally better. The primus express spider is light with a preburner so good in cold the cannister can be inverted to become a liquid feed in winter. It has good wide pan supports and with a very light foil based windshield has a very good performance. Seriously avoid multi fuel burners as heavy and no real need for them in this country especially for the shorter trips most likely to be done. Get a good cookset perhaps from www. backpackinglight.co.uk like the excellent evernew pots.

I hope this helps.

 

[markie*mark0]

questions:

is money an issue?

Not really, although i don't want to go overboard !

do you have canoe experience?


Getting a bit of experience in a canoe should be your priority before you get all the kit IMO.

Canoe experience, not really i've used a friends for around 6 days in total (coleman) and i wasn't insipred, but i think this was down to inexperience and an advanced canoe.

Its something i have been wanting to do for a long time and now im in a situation where i can, so i definetly will be having regular trips out in the canoe / kayak but was thinking about a beginers canoe first? (or hire different models to see how i get on)

kit wise:

check out this website for sleeping bags and other high quality kit
http://www.britishmilitarysurplus.co.uk/


Sharps:
http://www.heinnie.com/Knives/Mora-Knives/c-1-92-304/

get a folding saw from B+Q - I bought one for a fiver in asda three years ago and it is doing well. though laplander saws come highly recommended.

axe? - if you want one then you won't go far wrong with a gransfors axe. these are top of the line IMO. - if money is an issue then all you need for general stuff is a cheap hatchet: Bacho make good axes which are relatively cheap. - also check ebay.


I have a British army bergan for my carrying stuff needs. - good bit of kit. Can't recommend anything else as I have no experience with anything else.

inflatable mats can be had at most good outdoor shops - thermarest are good. Can't remember what make mine is.

Try and find a swedish army trangia stove - great stuff!

all the best
Andy

Cheers fella, i'll have a mooch around those site's

 

[redandshane]

Whoah up

First things first

Forget the canoe get some time in camping "off site" on your own by yourself carrying and using some basic necessary kit
What age is your son?
That will make a difference to what you can really do and what he will be abe to tolerate I suggest once you are comfortable with the gear and procedures needed just taking him out on an overnighter not far from home make it fun and enjoy it teach him some basic stuff and enjoy yourselves
Then move on to the canoe etc
It may all sound simple but actually you have to find your own way and its not all about kit Best done solo to start with I feel but others may disagree
Fine one to talk about minmal kit mind
lol

 

[Old Bones]

The Alpkit drybags are really good, and their XT ones are much tougher, and not much more that the standard Airlock. You could also keep an eye out for Aldi/Lidl. I got some Crane 44 litre ones from Aldi last year - I think they were about £7.99 each, which was a third of the price of Ortliebb. Also have a look in TKMaxx - I've seen some heavy duty ones in there as well.

 

[EastSussexScout]

just a heads up on the dry bags mentoned earlier. run down to sports direct and they are selling karrimor ones really cheap. i got a couple and they seem like really good quality!