New Jacket advice

[Oasis Canary]

First up a confession. I'm not a proper outdoors person like the majority of members on here but I would really like to tap into the wealth of accumulated knowledge and experience if I may. I'm getting into outdoor photography and as winter approaches I'm looking for a new jacket.

Currently I use a Paramo Cascada for wet weather and when it gets cold I layer up with a base layer, fleece and the the coat. It works OK but Im looking to try and avoid that bundled up feeling so hoping to find a jacket that I can wear with either a base layer or microfleece underneath and keep warm.

For 3 season use and bumming around I have a Keela belay jacket which is fine but for standing on the coast with a north wind blowing I need something a bit more substantial. As a photographer there is quite a lot of inactivity so I'm looking for something insulated and windproof. I have considered down but am put off by the cost and it's general fussines.

It has been suggested that something like a Buffalo or Snugpak pile shirt would meet my needs but I'm not certain how warm these are if you are inactive.

Suggestions welcomed on what I should be looking at.

TIA

 

[Robson Valley]

I've done a lot of all-season landscape photography, all analog 4"x5".
The usual view camera on a rail and big tripod.
Lots of standing around, waiting, just like you.

Coat details: they all work like bellows so a couple of details are important to me.
1. Draw string inside at about waist height. Embarassing to have to loosen that.
2. Long enough in the tail to sit on without frost-bitten cojones.
3. Knitted cuffs make a huge difference to air exchange, every time I move my arms. Remarkable feature.
4. Carhartt canvas fabric is the choice of all outdoor workers here. Heavy but windproof.
Most tradesmen are expected to be out at -20C. As low as -40C in the oil patch.

To that, I add a very fluffy scarf and a knitted cap/hat with ear flaps = toque = "block heater" (Canadian joke.)
My working gloves are IR reflective and thin. Old, old, old. Outers are leather mittens.

Here, I think that we really do get what we pay for. A serious coat will cost a lot.
That means at least $350.00, approx 220+ in your coin.

 

[Tonyuk]

It all depends on how active you'll be and how badly you feel the cold, for me my layering when active in the colder months is usually;

Baselayer - Either long or short sleeve helly hansen or under armour wicking top
Mid layer - Thin half zip micro fleece - Decathalon for cheap, thicker one depending on temp.
Outer - Thin Keela windproof top.

I'll wear this when walking about and normally don't have the fleece on unless its into the minius temps, if it starts to rain then what i normally do is take off both the windproof and fleece if worn and put on my waterproof jacket, keeping anything on underneath would make me too warm when active. I used to use a keela belay which was mega but i swapped for a paramo alta a few years ago. I prefer the paramo but it seems a bit warmer than the keela and you have to keep on top of the maintenance if you want it to stay waterproof.

I keep a belay jacket in my daysack for extended stops, hat and gloves etc.. depending on temp, i'll normally wear a thin hat if its really windy to save putting the hood up since i think they're a faff. If its lashing down then the waterproof goes over the belay jacket, with the baselayer on underneath.

I would stay away from the buffalo and snugpak/montane etc.. pile shirts unless your planning on being active in serious cold. They come into their own in that environment but imo they just aren't warm enough to be used as a inactive warm layer in the cold (they're also bulky) but at the same time they are far too hot to walk in 95% of the time. The warmth does go up if you layer a smock/waterproof on top but they'll never be as warm as a good primaloft or other insulated jacket. I like the montane prisim as a good summer (to about 5oc) warm layer and i have an alpkit 0hiro of winter.

Tonyuk

 

[C_Claycomb]

So you have a Paramo that you use with a fleece and base layer, but you feel this is too bulky? You want as much or more warmth, but with less bulk? I think you might have a hard time filling that requirement. I have a Paramo Alta, which I have used with fleece and base, and not found myself either particularly bundled up, nor overly warm when stationary. To overcome the lack of warmth I have acquired both a PHD down pullover and a Paramo Torres smock. The down is very warm, but not for wet weather, and it is a short garment. The Torres too is short, although it is meant for wet conditions. Both achieve warmth, but they are puffier than the Alta/Fleece combo.

Putting fleece or fill under a shell requires that the shell is light enough not to compress the insulation.

I have an old Goretex / Thinsulate coat by LLBean, very warm, too warm for most conditions in England, but it is bulky, no question.

For really stationary work, have you considered a Jerven Bag? Waterproof, wind proof, insulated, blends into the environment, keep all of you warm and dry, not just your top half, very durable. You can then wear a lighter fleece/shell and retreat to the bag when you have to wait.

 

[The Lord Poncho]

If you liked your belay jacket, but feel that it doesn't cut it for long static periods in the cold and wind, try looking at a snugpak sasquatch. Relatively bulky, but ludicrously warm, with a fabulous hood. You won't want to move around much in it though. The sizes come up very large, so beware. I'm 6ft2, and the medium fits me well.

 

[Robson Valley]

The LLBean might be OK. Eddy Bauer makes good winter coats.
Take a look at Cabela's for variety. I have 2 Carhartt winter coats/jackets.
All my snow gear is snow camo from NatGear. Get's me out of the wind.

I know that shipping and import tax put those out of sensible reach.
Goose hunters are a mad crew for really bad weather. There's clothes for them.

The OP wants to do winter photography. Not exactly leaping about.
Lots of waiting if there's wildlife to be found. And that is cold, personified.
A poncho won't hold much of the the body-heated air.

Will be interesting to see what the grape-picking crew will wear this morning.
It's +2C and windy and most all the leaves are frosted off.
Not the fastest moving sport on the planet.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Who suggested a poncho?

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting LLBean as a supplier, I know that US sources for stuff like this make little sense for folk in the UK. I used it as an example of a warm, windproof, insulated, but therefore bulky, coat; and to illustrate that I had tried such a thing and wasn't pulling my opinion from thin air

My personal experience has been that I feel less bundled up when I am wearing a lighter (for its bulk) and more compressible type of insulation. Down and synthetic fill garments, with light shells, feel less like wearing a suit of armour than more durable/heavy weight insulated coats.

Goose hunting gear looks warm, but if a fleece/Cascada feels too bulky, then goose hunting coats will be no better, and probably worse.

 

[MikeLA]

Any buffalo coat would be good for static times. I own a special 6 for very cold times and a buffalo belay for times I pack light and small

 

[Oasis Canary]

It all depends on how active you'll be and how badly you feel the cold, for me my layering when active in the colder months is usually;

Baselayer - Either long or short sleeve helly hansen or under armour wicking top
Mid layer - Thin half zip micro fleece - Decathalon for cheap, thicker one depending on temp.
Outer - Thin Keela windproof top.

I'll wear this when walking about and normally don't have the fleece on unless its into the minius temps, if it starts to rain then what i normally do is take off both the windproof and fleece if worn and put on my waterproof jacket, keeping anything on underneath would make me too warm when active. I used to use a keela belay which was mega but i swapped for a paramo alta a few years ago. I prefer the paramo but it seems a bit warmer than the keela and you have to keep on top of the maintenance if you want it to stay waterproof.

I keep a belay jacket in my daysack for extended stops, hat and gloves etc.. depending on temp, i'll normally wear a thin hat if its really windy to save putting the hood up since i think they're a faff. If its lashing down then the waterproof goes over the belay jacket, with the baselayer on underneath.

I would stay away from the buffalo and snugpak/montane etc.. pile shirts unless your planning on being active in serious cold. They come into their own in that environment but imo they just aren't warm enough to be used as a inactive warm layer in the cold (they're also bulky) but at the same time they are far too hot to walk in 95% of the time. The warmth does go up if you layer a smock/waterproof on top but they'll never be as warm as a good primaloft or other insulated jacket. I like the montane prisim as a good summer (to about 5oc) warm layer and i have an alpkit 0hiro of winter.

Tonyuk

Thanks for your input. For me I would want a thicker fleece say 200 weight to stay warm. I think it's probably down to the fact that I won't be doing much walking to get into position say 1 mile max but plenty of standing around. I did a bit more reading on the pile jackets and I hadn't realised how heavy they are. It also seems that are at their most effective if you can generate some body heat first.

 

[Oasis Canary]

So you have a Paramo that you use with a fleece and base layer, but you feel this is too bulky? You want as much or more warmth, but with less bulk? I think you might have a hard time filling that requirement. I have a Paramo Alta, which I have used with fleece and base, and not found myself either particularly bundled up, nor overly warm when stationary. To overcome the lack of warmth I have acquired both a PHD down pullover and a Paramo Torres smock. The down is very warm, but not for wet weather, and it is a short garment. The Torres too is short, although it is meant for wet conditions. Both achieve warmth, but they are puffier than the Alta/Fleece combo.

Putting fleece or fill under a shell requires that the shell is light enough not to compress the insulation.

I have an old Goretex / Thinsulate coat by LLBean, very warm, too warm for most conditions in England, but it is bulky, no question.

For really stationary work, have you considered a Jerven Bag? Waterproof, wind proof, insulated, blends into the environment, keep all of you warm and dry, not just your top half, very durable. You can then wear a lighter fleece/shell and retreat to the bag when you have to wait.

I think a possible issue might be that my Paramo is an old style model as I went into a shop and the current model is much lighter than mine. The assistant explained that they had changed fabric some years ago

 

[Tonyuk]

If your not planning to really be active then i would probably just suggest a decent baselayer, coupled with a thick-ish fleece or synthetic and a waterproof.

If you go with a fleece for a mid-layer then id recommend investing in a good quality gillet top for keeping in the pack. These weight nothing but add a surprising amount of heat, i carry one often in summer in case the temp drops. A company called Portwest sells 400g fleeces for only £15 ish with delivery on ebay, i lived in a black one last winter and it was warm enough for monging about they're made on a larger size though and i had to go down one to get a fit i liked. Heres a link;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Portwest-Argyll-Premium-Heavy-Fleece-Jacket-Zip-Pockets-Anti-Pill-XS-7XL-F400-/191837768453?var=&epid=1212679639&hash=item2caa6c0b05:m:mBxiLffo3lOH158tTPRf1hQ

Tonyuk

 

[C_Claycomb]

I think a possible issue might be that my Paramo is an old style model as I went into a shop and the current model is much lighter than mine. The assistant explained that they had changed fabric some years ago

Mine is an Alta, not Alta II or III, bought in 2005. I know they have some lighter shell fabric now, used in the Velez Light smock and Torres light that I have, but was unaware that they had changed their standard line with lighter materials.

 

[sunndog]

If buffalo gear is too heavy then go for down. Its not rea;ly that fussy in practice and a smallish down jacket layers under a gore-tex type coat beautifully without you feeling like you are wearing six dozen layers

 

[sunndog]

Warmth without any bulk is a nice dream though

 

[Robson Valley]

That's the dream when doing foul-weather photography. You spend so much time standing around,
the wind is blowing your brains out and you can just feel your body core temp falling.
Wet-proof is not so much important as really wind proof, something you can hide behind.

I have flannel-lined jeans. Heavy even when dry but a pleasure to wear in winter (-15C and snowing with wind.)

When you have to use both hands to stop the shivering so you can get the key into the car door lock,
you are done for the day.

 

[MrEd]

I have an arktis smock I wear autumn and winter time - I layer underneath with a micro fleece in autumn or my wool helly Hansen fleece in the winter, I can also wear thermals under it if I want but in the south east uk, a lumberjack style shirt or t shirt is usually enough.

it waterproof, windproof and suits me fine for my outdoors photography and bimbling.

 

[IamRon]

What worked for me for any stationary 'activities' was layering up with wool and a cheap nasty nylon rain coat. Totally wind- and waterproof. Just don't start running. You'll sweat like a pig on the barbie.