Need to be taught better- woodland vandalism

[Hammock_man]

A sign saying "This woodland has adders" is just another way of inviting folk to claim compensation because they got bit and you knew!
"There should be rangers" is folk saying some one should pay for this but not me.
"Kids should know better" is hoping for the impossible.
"Why do they do it" is because you have something and I don't, anything that belongs to other people can be destroyed with no blame attached.
( in a bl**dy awful mood tonight)

 

[jeggs]

Spent a few hours yesterday in the local woodland and was shocked at just how much litter I came across. Empty cans (alcohol) wrappers, bottles and left over disposable bbqs. So many trees had been attempted to be cut/chopped down without reason as there's an abundance of fallen firewood available. Camp fires setup on most of the clearings. Dog mess in plastic bags thrown in bushes and trees/hung on fences.

I for one would like to see an introduction of woodland rangers or some kind of power that can issue fines of some sort for idiotic behaviour.

Even came across a tree that had been set alight and was still smouldering when I saw it

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I own a small plot of woodland with a public bridle path and small river (more a stream but it's officially called a river) it's also listed as a Special Area of Conservation (SAC) due to the fact it's part of the home/habitat of UK's rarest and largest bats, the Greater Horseshoe Bat.
I've liaised with the local wildlife trust and even received a small amount of funding to implement conservation measures, for not just the bats but dormice and ground nesting birds. One section of the woods borders the farmers field and it's evident there was an old outgrown hedge along the border. The farmer and I both agreed and got RPA funding to re-introduce the hedgerow.
There have been numerous incidents where the newly planted, hedgerow has been uprooted or the pleached trees bent and torn, effectively killing them. The conservation signs torn down or pulled out and people tramping over newly seeded glades and ground nesting areas, one woodland owner coppiced his sweet chestnuts and had abusive notes left, saying how they hoped he and his family get cancer for chopping down the trees.
Unfortunately many people feel entitled to ignore genuine conservation measures, and some others don't realise that coppicing is a very old tradition that can actually prolong some species of trees and increase biodiversity.
As for rangers most woodland are privately owned so as such who would fund these rangers? Also mine is actually within a national park, which has rangers, but as it's still privately owned they can't enforce anything with the woodland.
Unfortunately within the national park I've seen increased human activity which has not followed the cardinal rule of leave no trace. To the point the cheap pop up tents have even been left, and every thing strewn about the place.
I fear it's never going to be easy to 'police'

 

[Pattree]

The education system has a lot to answer for, I for one would be happier if more time was spent educating kids how to behave responsibly outdoors….

My grandchildren DO have forest school lessons at their ordinary prep-school. It’s only a little patch of woodland but they go there regularly.
In the end, it isn’t the school’s issue. This is something that parents should be teaching

 

[Broch]

I fear it's never going to be easy to 'police'

You genuinely have my sympathy; it's hard enough to get any funding for conservation at all (unless your application has 'urban', 'welfare', 'community' and other such words in it) so to have it destroyed after all that effort is very demoralising.

We could, as woodland owners, state that the wood is for field sports (without actually shooting anything except maybe greys) then we can appoint a gamekeeper who has amazing powers to 'deal' with people that he thinks are risking 'the game'.

 

[Tantalus]

In the end, it isn’t the school’s issue. This is something that parents should be teaching

Wasn't blaming the schools, if you reread my post.

 

[jeggs]

To be fair I think it's a societal issue. If you look at places like Austria, Germany, I have visited both relatively often, in both urban and particularry rural places, I can't personally vouch for other European countries but have heard anecedotal tales of environmental respect from the Nordic countries....our society has excluded nature, excluded children, particularly from deprived urban areas, closed youth centre funding and generally viewed the countryside as a farming commodity...as I said ingrew up in London, but my irish side of the family had a farm so I saw that from a young age on our summer visits.
Many Londoners I know, genuinely don't have much of an idea about the countryside, woodland, farmland or wildlife...it's disheartening

 

[henchy3rd]

As mentioned before.
I fired of an Email off to the forestry commission as our local hilly woodland has been savaged by mountain bikers.. felling trees, cutting swaths of track & being generally a danger to the public, not mentioning there’s not much wildlife any more, there’s fire pits everywhere, oh & rubbish strewn all over.
Even the flat deciduous woodland has fallen to the axe/spade in the name of ‘getting out’.
The Email reply was.. we are aware of said doings & to call the police, blah blah blah.. basically there not bothered.
The local private woodlands seem to be fairing better though.

 

[jeggs]

As mentioned before.
I fired of an Email off to the forestry commission as our local hilly woodland has been savaged by mountain bikers.. felling trees, cutting swaths of track & being generally a danger to the public, not mentioning there’s not much wildlife any more, there’s fire pits everywhere, oh & rubbish strewn all over.
Even the flat deciduous woodland has fallen to the axe/spade in the name of ‘getting out’.
The Email reply was.. we are aware of said doings & to call the police, blah blah blah.. basically there not bothered.
The local private woodlands seem to be fairing better though.

Unfortunately Government cut backs across the whole spectrum are leaving things rather thin on the ground. Forestry England have basically turned a woodland over to a small coppicing co-operative in South Devon, officially it's so traditional coppiced crafts can be re-introduced to the woods, though, unofficially and quietly mentioned 'off the record' by a forestry employee was that it was money saving for them

 

[Paul_B]

That's only true if you have a complete natural eco system to support it - so very large areas of land allowing mosaic habitats with large herbivores and predators. Without those, we have to manage land to create as many seral stages as possible and provide the best habitat diversity for wildlife.

But, I would agree, man makes a mess at most attempts at wildlife engineering

That's kind of what I was getting at. The UK not having much truly natural areas these days but if we had a natural habitat it would be better without humans visiting it. The lakes often get popular votes for most beautiful views or countryside in the UK but it's basically industrial.

Just been reading about a Cockermouth based sustainable businesswoman who invests 20% of profits from her main business into her community company that's bought Low Fell. She's basically planting trees and saying things like trees would be all over the fells even the fell tops. It concerns me that she might be well-meaning in the idea of carbon capture in the trees but could be misguided in the best approach. Blanket bogs are probably a more important terrain to restore in many parts of the Lakes. I'm definitely no expert but if you're going down the tree planting only style of environmental land management I worry. Although I think she's not doing that but has a more varied plan. It just a bit concerning when a media interview basically makes more of the trees. I digress.

 

[Paul_B]

I wonder whether there is more of an issue with certain sectors of society? For example, are city dwellers potentially more likely to disrespect the countryside. The idea of neds and weegies trashing the edges of Loch lomond? I notice that the quieter areas around the edges of Cumbria that doesn't really have much outsider visitors seem to be cleaner and damage / rubbish free. Other areas that get outsider visitors but still quieter areas like Silverdale and Arnside get rubbish dumped more often. Dog poo bags most noticeable.

BTW kids do get taught a lot of social responsibility stuff but like always kids don't always do what is right. Then again responsible youth outdoors organisations I know teach responsibility to the kids in their care then don't supervise or clean up after their trips. One wildcamps in the lakes but it's left trashed by them. Is than the fault only of the kids or the outdoors education instructors supervising them? BTW mountain leader qualified instructors know better that's for certain. I've got friends who are qualified so I know how in depth and breadth that training can be.

Solution is exclude humans perhaps? Rangers cost and how many would be needed to actually make the difference? The again it would likely make wildcamping difficult even for responsible people. It isn't legal in most of the UK so will these rangers turn na blind eye or kick wildcampers off the land?

What is acceptable? Open wood fire? Ignore the fire scar, the moved stone rings and the signposting of a good camping spot. You're burning gathered wood. Is that dead standing,, habitat piles or other detritus that's potentially good for ecology? I don't know for sure but I do not think it's a responsible thing to do in a lot of uk countryside the way you see people doing it. Possibly bucking the trend among ppl on here with this view but it's to be considered along with all the other activities people question.

 

[jeggs]

Dog poo bags most noticeable.

Oh the bain of my life....the public bridle path running through the woods is festooned with them, trying to pleach the shrubs for hedgerows becomes a smelly, messy, unhygienic job....

The again it would likely make wildcamping difficult even for responsible people. It isn't legal in most of the UK so will these rangers turn na blind eye or kick wildcampers off the land?

I was doing a wild camp in the Surrey hills, on NT land when one of their rangers turned up...two hammocks and tarps up, with most of our gear in our bags, but thebspirit stove out, along with mess tins etc. It was obvious we were wild camping, but we said we were walking through and only stopped for some refreshments. The guy saw we were responsible (already had a clear ziplock rubbish bag with banana skins, teabags and a couple of other bits). He looked at the straps and trees and said something along the lines of leave no trace and it's all good. Not quite saying it's okay for us to be there, but the way it was said and how he went on his way after this certainly gave the impression, that it was 'okay' .

I'm all for people experiencing and visiting the countryside, but always respect and adhere to the countryside atbthe very least. And of course the well used mantra of leave no trace.

I really don't know what the solution is. Though I look at Japan and marvel at their social structure....you know at Olympics etc the Japanese fans clear away their waste. It's taught at school to clean each day

 

[demented dale]

You genuinely have my sympathy; it's hard enough to get any funding for conservation at all (unless your application has 'urban', 'welfare', 'community' and other such words in it) so to have it destroyed after all that effort is very demoralising.

We could, as woodland owners, state that the wood is for field sports (without actually shooting anything except maybe greys) then we can appoint a gamekeeper who has amazing powers to 'deal' with people that he thinks are risking 'the game'.

When you say 'shooting greys' Do you mean aliens? x

 

[Herman30]

Though I look at Japan and marvel at their social structure....

In Japan they are taught from child that an individual is nothing and the society is everything.
In our western world individualism is everything.

 

[GrandadInTheWoods]

It's disgusting the crap that is left behind and the pure stupidity of people, I agree th government should understand the forestry comision or someone to have woodland rangers who's job is to walk around the woodlands checking up on them clearing and cleaning checking the state of the tress and the land, wildlife ECT and be able to issue on the spot fines when they come across complete toss pots

 

[Broch]

It's disgusting the crap that is left behind and the pure stupidity of people, I agree th government should understand the forestry comision or someone to have woodland rangers who's job is to walk around the woodlands checking up on them clearing and cleaning checking the state of the tress and the land, wildlife ECT and be able to issue on the spot fines when they come across complete toss pots

OK, how much increase in tax are we prepared to pay for that? We either charge for access to the countryside, or we pay for it through taxes, or something else has to be sacrificed such as education, health, police - which would you be happy with?

 

[Chris]

OK, how much increase in tax are we prepared to pay for that? We either charge for access to the countryside, or we pay for it through taxes, or something else has to be sacrificed such as education, health, police - which would you be happy with?

If Covid fraud of ~£7bn was recouped, that would pay 4000 people £35k per year for 50 years. That would probably go some way towards helping.

Money is there for things that are needed, if less was wasted.

 

[Broch]

If Covid fraud of ~£7bn was recouped, that would pay 4000 people £35k per year for 50 years. That would probably go some way towards helping.

Money is there for things that are needed, if less was wasted.

Possibly, if those figures are real and accurate, but habitat and biodiversity is not high enough on the priority list. Politicians have to respond to media hype, and at the moment that's other more sensational subjects like global warming and national security.

 

[GrandadInTheWoods]

Possibly, if those figures are real and accurate, but habitat and biodiversity is not high enough on the priority list. Politicians have to respond to media hype, and at the moment that's other more sensational subjects like global warming and national security.

I agree the money would need to be found from somewhere but I'm sure it can be found considering we're losing so much of the country side with house development ECT

 

[slowworm]

Just like all the knife regulation I'm not sure more laws, rangers etc would would work. I note some people mention the Forestry Commission but round here I would say they are responsible for a huge amount of damage to the countryside as we still have non-native pine plantations that are clear felled (including the removal of any remaining broad leaf trees) and replanting of more non-natives on land that would probably be an SSSI if it wasn't for them. A local coppice group run woodland sounds infinitely better.

 

[Broch]

Just like all the knife regulation I'm not sure more laws, rangers etc would would work. I note some people mention the Forestry Commission but round here I would say they are responsible for a huge amount of damage to the countryside as we still have non-native pine plantations that are clear felled (including the removal of any remaining broad leaf trees) and replanting of more non-natives on land that would probably be an SSSI if it wasn't for them. A local coppice group run woodland sounds infinitely better.

Perhaps, but it's a bit of a myth to say coppice is 'good woodland management' for wildlife. A coppice is only one of many woodland habitats that support wildlife. Large areas of coppice are just another monoculture with little species diversity compared to well managed, mixed structure, woodland.