Need new w'shop tools

[Macaroon]

Around three years ago I lost my rented workshop as the people sold the farm on which it was situated; they did this in a somewhat 'unorthodox' way and I ended up losing all my large workshop tools, i.e. pillar drill, bandsaw, table saw......all that sort of stuff. Anyway, cut a long story short, after scrimping and scraping and tucking away every spare penny I'm now in a position to get some stuff together again, except this time it'll be going in a new 16 X 10 workshop in my garden, so no worries about security in future......

It seems that the choice is between buying the best I can find in the way of the Screwfix/Axminster hobby lines of stuff or going the secondhand route with the auction sites etc. I know you can pick up very good used deals in the used market but I also know from experience that you can end up doing a hell of a lot of driving to look at kit that's not worth poo; I've had it when buying vehicles but at least then I'm only after the one item, with the tools I'd potentialy have to go through it all half a dozen times and that can end up costing the same as if I'd just bought stuff new...

Another problem I'll have to face is that since I last bought this type of equipment the world has become a different place, I don't know any of the makes and many of the items I see seem to be the same stuff badged up differently and priced differently; I'm sure there must be some good bargains to be had by those who know their way around it all.

Perhaps some members have this type of expertise through their job, perhaps some may have recently gone through the same process, so I thought I'd post this up and see what feedback I might get. Any suggestions/information/ideas/recommendations will be most welcome........Let's have your ideas, please!

 

[Leshy]

Axminster own brand machines are ok kit , and you can pick em up 2nd hand sometimes on eBay. For the money they are pretty good.
Electra beckum is good too, though they've been bought by metabo recently
.. but theyre not bad either.
It does mean faffing about and checking the kit before buying it though, and you do have to, as there's lots of useless rubbish on ebay. Mostly been knocked about stuff that overheats, or tables out of square etc. Best avoided.

In my opinion the old kit is best.
For woodworking you can't go far wrong with old machines, Startrite, Kity, Wadkin, Record, usually you'd have to get 3phase electrics fitted in your workshop but you wont regret it. and for the smaller stuff the old Elu brand is reliable. They made solid kit until DeWalt bought them out and killed them off.


Its worth asking your local joinery shops if they use the refurb companies that buy and remove old machines or come to fix and refurbish them .

Most of the firms that service these joinery shops ,sawmills and workshops , are firms that also sell decent OLD machines. Refurbished.
Colleges and universities use these firms too. Worth speaking to your local college ,carpentry tutor , preferably the senior tutors and ask.

This last summer I got the contact for a firm that were servicing all the machines in the tech block of a school I was working on ,replacing and repairing workbenches and vices (they get battered year on year) and we got chatting and they had very good kit going very cheap.

The only trouble with those is that they tend to be big lumps. Maybe a bit too big for your space? It was definitely too much for my shed... .😀

The other good thing is that these firms find it hard to shift this gear quick enough so its often taking up room somewhere... so sometimes they have clearouts at decent prices.
Auction rooms in various towns often sell amazing kit for peanuts. It's getting the preview catalogues in advance to choose when to go in and bid.
Advantage with those is that sometimes you get really good deals.

Hope it helps , and also hope you manage to kit yourself out well soon so we can see the workshop and your work . 👍


Edit:
Doh, just saw the size of your space, those old machines are overkill .😀


Makita tools go on forever, they also have a huge range now , id stay away from DeWalt ( bought by black & decker) and sub standard in the last few years, Bosch pro line (blue range) is very good , and so is Festool , Maffell and CMT.
Metabo (Electra beckum) are fairly decent for the price too.
I hear scheppac are ok but ive never used them ...

Hope it helps

 

[Trotsky]

Believe it or not a lot of the stuff sold in Lidl is quite serviceable. Everything from circular saws to smaller table top pillar drills, usually with a 3 year warranty and often spare brushes for the motor too. I've had quite a bit from there and it's done me just fine. Other tools I've found in antique shops and restored myself such as old Stanley Bailey planes, a lovely wooden bodied jack plane and more recently a Millers Falls 2 speed brace drill that's as good now as when it was made (I think in the 1890s!) What I've picked up hasn't cost me the earth, in fact the antique stuff was quite cheap as the seller didn't know what they had.
My boss insists on buying all manner of tools from Screwfix, it's a waste of money verging on masochism so I'd avoid if you can.

 

[Fadcode]

The best thing you can do is to check the length of the guarantee with these goods and how easy it is to return them for replacement or refund, most are made out in China, some are good some are a waste of time, some have watertight warranties, watch out for junk, I visited B&Q today, they have a long list of recalled tools that they in fact class as dangerous to use, most are macallister brand, go for old stuff, I have several Vanco Grinders(3) which are excellent despite there age, I have a Myford Lathe that is 70 years old, and works perfectly, machines in them days were made to last, not like today in this throw away society, where its cheaper to buy new than to fix.
If you are interested in old reliable stuff, drop me a pm, and I will give you some good contacts.

 

[Wayne]

A lot depends on budget. Buy the best you can afford and buy it once always seemed a good plan but these days you can pick up bargains that are almost disposable tools. I'd work out which tools are going to get the most use and budget the most for these tools. No point spending £400 on a router if you're only going the use it a couple times a year.

A good planer thicknesser is a good investment. I have an old kity that works beautifully although parts are now getting hard to find. I also have a kity 613 bandsaw that is fine for most hobby tasks. I'm fortunate enough to have access to some fantastic old wood tools at the museum I demonstrate at.

In my opinion both Makita and Dewalt are not the killer brands they once were. My makita drill is a bit pants. Definitely inferior to a Milwaukee. Festools get good reviews. Don't forget to invest in good dust extraction and a decent mask.

For chop saw look at the evolution range. Mine has seen very heavy use. Turning an industrial unit into a gymnastics hall. 1000s of cuts of wood, plastic and scaffold tubes all on the same blade.

I am still looking for the perfect belt sander. I rather liked Dave Budds at the moot.

 

[Macaroon]

Thanks for taking the time to reply, folks; I'm fine for handtools of all sorts, it's the bigger power tools I was puzzling over, but some good tips and info. above. Fadcode, I'll certainly be in touch later today

Chop saw, band saw, pillar drill and table saw would be, for my needs, the four that I'd need straight off, so I'll concentrate on those; most other stuff I can just enjoy the process and do by hand for now. The real biggy would be the planer/thicknesser for the invaluable ability to dimension timber to my needs, as I'm somewhat limited as to what/how much I can do by hand.

The other thing I may look at is a central motor driving a few different things, I have a 100mm belt sander chassis here with a pulley fitted and I bet people sell that type of thing for peanuts.....

Keep the info coming, all good stuff

 

[Dave Budd]

I have this quandary everytime I by new toys for my workshop. For a given budget you'll get more of a machine if it's an old one, but unless it has been lovingly looked after, you WILL have to do some work to it to make it good again. I've reached the point where I would rather buy a mid range tool with manufacturers' guarantee than a great machine that will leave me frustrated and swearing because I can't get the parts/don't know how to fix it/don't know what is wrong with it.

I long since (mostly) abandoned buying chain store tools, such as Axminster. Most of the chinese (etc) made own brands are made in the same factories and relabelled for various customers; just look at the spec and the photos! I search about for similar machines and see whats what. As for the brnad to buy, it also depends on what you want to do with the tool. Dewalt (for example) are a tradesman's tool, so if you want a table saw that fits into your van then they are more likely to have a good machine or price than say Record (who will be much better suited to a workshop based machine for a similar price).

In the last couple of years I have started buying said mid range woodworking tools as I have a growing amount of milled timber that I want to start converting into money. I will be using them to 'enthusiastic hobby' levels I guess, but that means while they won't be used all day everyday; I will end up shoving things through them that they don't like on occasion and will use them hard for a yew days a year maybe. I went for a Schepache table saw (steel bed rather than cast iron, but the saw is 12"? and runs true with a good motor and accurate lifts) and a Triton planer thicknesser (12" wide, was the biggest I could find without going up to commercial workshop machines at 5 times the price). I was looking into bandsaws and from the reviews, the biggest new machine for less than workshop rates was a Record (just shy of a grand and apparently a very good machine), same with the drill press.

So really it depends on whether you need a large solid (cast) bed on your saws and planer. Are you making a lot of tables and cabinets or just the occasional piece of furniture for fun?

Also, is that 16x10 feet or metres? It will make a big difference to the tools tat you can squeeze in!

 

[Macaroon]

Thanks for the info., Dave; alas feet, I could only wish for that size in metres! Even at that size I've given over half the garden to it and it's approaches. I'm doing photo's as I go and will post it all as a project report but there's a long way to go yet, not even got a roof on it yet; this time of year it's a bugger to get a lot done, I'm fighting the weather (no future in that, eh?) and all the Christmas nonsense with late deliveries, crowded roads etc.

I have a feeling I might have to start with the best of the real budget stuff so's I can at least get some projects under way, and then just scour the market over time 'till I come up with the right kit.

Apart from the usual things that many here need a 'shop for, I thought I might slowly furnish my small bungalow with exactly what I want from the workshop.........we'll see, eh?

 

[Nomad64]

Thanks for taking the time to reply, folks; …

Chop saw, band saw, pillar drill and table saw would be, for my needs, the four that I'd need straight off,

A great thread, thanks for starting it Mac - I'm in the same position of trying to kit out a small workshop on a budget. I've picked up an old school pillar drill and decent sized Record vice locally from the Bay of E but am looking for a chop saw, table saw and bench grinder and am also trying to find the "sweet spot" on the cost/quality graph with a preference for decent used kit but mindful of the spares/repairs issues. That said, the cost of basic spare parts for premium "consumer" grade Bosch and B&D tools makes them effectively disposable.

For chop saw look at the evolution range. Mine has seen very heavy use. Turning an industrial unit into a gymnastics hall. 1000s of cuts of wood, plastic and scaffold tubes all on the same blade.

Thanks Wayne that's very interesting - presumably you are using the higher spec Rage range rather than the cheaper Fury ones?

 

[Leshy]

Some good advice here, i forgot about the Evo Rage chopsaws (from B&Q) , they are pretty good actually, specially because of their "one blade to rule them all.." approach. They go through nails , screws , wood, plastics and everything I'm between. For the money they're worth the punt.
Amazing blades!

Triton , I forgot about them, make brilliant kit, I've never seen the planer/thickenesser but if they're as good as the routers than you're on a winner.

Back when DeWalt was still ok, they did a flip over saw ( table saw / chop saw) and that saves a lot of space as it's 2 tools in one footprint.
(I think makita do one too but not sure about the quality.)
I know DeWalt nicked that idea from the ELU flip over design and those were indestructible. There are still quite a few ELU on eBay for sale for about £100 .
Here is one example :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332058096521

The old DeWalt tools were very good indeed. My boss has an old bandsaw that is top notch...
...
and Dave just confirmed my suspicions on the Scheppach brand, I've heard good things about them...

Charnwood workshop tools are not bad either, on the budget side but good builds.
My mate bought a charnwood table saw years ago and its still going strong.

Look forward to seeing your workshop progress and the stuff you make in it... 👍

 

[mr dazzler]

if you get a bandsaw get good blades, Tuff blades (made in wales) are a revelation, your saw instantly works faster cleaner and more acurate. I dont work for them but am a satisfied customer, top British made kit. Sadly the record bandsaw I own isnt British made But my record lathe IS

 

[Trotsky]

Thanks for taking the time to reply, folks; I'm fine for handtools of all sorts, it's the bigger power tools I was puzzling over, but some good tips and info. above. Fadcode, I'll certainly be in touch later today

Chop saw, band saw, pillar drill and table saw would be, for my needs, the four that I'd need straight off, so I'll concentrate on those; most other stuff I can just enjoy the process and do by hand for now. The real biggy would be the planer/thicknesser for the invaluable ability to dimension timber to my needs, as I'm somewhat limited as to what/how much I can do by hand.

The other thing I may look at is a central motor driving a few different things, I have a 100mm belt sander chassis here with a pulley fitted and I bet people sell that type of thing for peanuts.....

Keep the info coming, all good stuff

If you want a thicknesser I've heard these are good for the money: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311546827425?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
They'll certainly handle good sizes of timber.