I've carried a leatherman wave then charge and a locking folder for 15 years every working day, I've never been stopped and I know exactly what I'd tell a police man if I did. On the other hand when I'm not in work or in the woods I do obey the law and only carry a small non locking folder. There's no need to carry a tool or locking folder to the shops , cinema etc...
Multi tool carry
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I have a Leatherman Juice CS4 as well. Works pretty well for most things I've tried. The only thing I've found it not to be good at is battoning. Other than that, it works very well. I have a pair of Leatherman Wave multi tools (original and new version). But as they are not legal for EDC, I tend not to take them out the house.
J
Is it just me or do multitool manufacturers always get it wrong? I've always looked at the Rebar and thought it would be better with scissors and now they've added scissors and ditched the knife blade. Same as when Boker Plus ripped off the SAK farmer, it could have been brilliant, they added a pocket clip which is great, all it needed was a one hand opening blade but they added a corkscrew instead. Just what every busy farmer needs...
Yeah, they do seem to make some odd decisions.
Leatherman are still trying to pedal that tread bracelet thing, even coming out with a metric version.
Another Swiss maker, Swiza http://www.swiza.com/en/Products/Knives.html makes inexpensive SAK style knives... but made them all locking.
Can only think of one maker, Spyderco, that makes one hand opening slip jointed and < 3" bladed knives.
Hi chaps, this is something that I've been deeply reasarching over the last three months or so, and looking for greater clarification in the law. If you look at my post in introductions it gives you an idea what I've actively been up to.
I've just sent a letter of today to no 10 Downing Street to highlight my findings, and to ask for not so much greater clarification in the law, but for a more unified approach to policing the offence. There are definite guidelines laid out by the NPCC, national police chiefs council which the police are suppose to follow. Although I don't agree wholly with those, my findings have exposed the fact that the police are still using an over active approach in some cases to bring people to court..
I have compiled an 11 page report expressing the need for greater tolerance for the people like ourselves and genuine cases where the daily use of a multi tool can and should show 'reasonable cause' under the umbrella of (presumption).
My argument has been with the authorities that I am a person who uses and collects tools, and have found over the years that carrying a multi tool allows me an extension of my abilities to make my day a whole lot better than it could of been based on the probability that I will need to carry it... The trouble with the law as it stands now is that you can't use the reasonable excuse of 'probability ' as an excuse... I explained to the police and NPCC that it would be a complete impossibility to know if we're going to use it that day or not, as appose to using it for a specific 'known' task .
I've also suggested that a Sikh can carry a dagger for religious reasons as one of his five beliefs, and also a Scottish person can carry a knife as part of a national costume, I expressed that fact that I have beliefs to, I believe that carrying a multi tool will make my day much better if I should need it, and more to the point if I see anyone on my travels that I can offer help to then even better, however they failed to see the need....
I have also suggested that a licence type system akin to a shot gun licence might be an alternative and open up a greater allowance for carry without having to offer a reason, I'm sure there are many more ways in which the law can be tweaked to be Alitalia more relaxed for those who need it...
I'm just not convinced that giving 'reasonable cause ' is working for some people.
I've even spoken to various solicitors to ask of their opinion and I was shocked to find out that he'd had to referential many people in court when quite clearly they had a reasonable cause in the first place and it should have been dealt with there and then....
Dave.
I've just sent a letter of today to no 10 Downing Street to highlight my findings, and to ask for not so much greater clarification in the law, but for a more unified approach to policing the offence. There are definite guidelines laid out by the NPCC, national police chiefs council which the police are suppose to follow. Although I don't agree wholly with those, my findings have exposed the fact that the police are still using an over active approach in some cases to bring people to court..
I have compiled an 11 page report expressing the need for greater tolerance for the people like ourselves and genuine cases where the daily use of a multi tool can and should show 'reasonable cause' under the umbrella of (presumption).
My argument has been with the authorities that I am a person who uses and collects tools, and have found over the years that carrying a multi tool allows me an extension of my abilities to make my day a whole lot better than it could of been based on the probability that I will need to carry it... The trouble with the law as it stands now is that you can't use the reasonable excuse of 'probability ' as an excuse... I explained to the police and NPCC that it would be a complete impossibility to know if we're going to use it that day or not, as appose to using it for a specific 'known' task .
I've also suggested that a Sikh can carry a dagger for religious reasons as one of his five beliefs, and also a Scottish person can carry a knife as part of a national costume, I expressed that fact that I have beliefs to, I believe that carrying a multi tool will make my day much better if I should need it, and more to the point if I see anyone on my travels that I can offer help to then even better, however they failed to see the need....
I have also suggested that a licence type system akin to a shot gun licence might be an alternative and open up a greater allowance for carry without having to offer a reason, I'm sure there are many more ways in which the law can be tweaked to be Alitalia more relaxed for those who need it...
I'm just not convinced that giving 'reasonable cause ' is working for some people.
I've even spoken to various solicitors to ask of their opinion and I was shocked to find out that he'd had to referential many people in court when quite clearly they had a reasonable cause in the first place and it should have been dealt with there and then....
Dave.
No. A licence isn't needed. A clearer understanding of the law as it stands by all interested parties may help though.
You mean the 'defense of good reason'?
Definitely a bad idea to go the licensing route; over complicated bureaucracy is the last thing required in this situation. "Be careful what you wish for" comes to mind :yikes:
My Svord Peasant Mini can be opened with one hand. I can open the knife on my leatherman wave (Old and new) with one hand.
Note, in Danish law an EDC knife has to need 2 hands to open to be legal. It's reasons like this that knives are generally compromised, when you try to draw the line of best fit through the various legal requirements of intended markets, you are rather limited in what you can do. Hence the Leatherman Juice being under 3" blade, non locking, and convoluted enough that you need 2 hands to open it.
J
Yeah, remembered the Svord after I posted. Isn't the Wave is locking though, at least the new one does IIRC.
Yeah, Spyderco released the DKPK for the Danes.
Edit: And the Boker Plus ... 42 variants, Subcom etc.
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Yes, sorry that's what I was meaning to say.
And yes definitely it's does need a better understanding of the law, certainly by the police. The law as it stands now would work perfectly well 'if' it were used in a correct manner.
The thing I was thinking about with regards to a licence system is that once you had been vetted to be a responsible user of knives and tools you would only need to show your licence to a police man rather than go through all the trouble that some people have had to do, not to mention the waste of police and court time....
Does anyone have any ideas that would help tidy up the law and the way it's used......
Yes, loads. Unfortunately none of them will ever be implemented. I suggest that allowing people to carry bigger knives is not a political priority in this country at the moment.
When I go bushcrafting, I consider that good reason to carry a substantial fixed-blade knife. I've yet to encounter a police officer on the moors, but if I did, I wouldn't expect them to make a fuss about it.
Something to bear in mind about good reason.
A chap on here had a bit of a nasty experience where the police had to be involved when he was robbed of his bushcraft kit whilst bimbling around on National Trust land. He got a very stiff talking to because he didn't have a legal good reason since the land owner had not given permission for him to do something that needed a knife. Rather the opposite since they post rules against most of what we think of as bushcraft.
Worth thinking about when deciding where you carry your tools.
Not trying to tell anyone what to do, that's for you to decide.
A chap on here had a bit of a nasty experience where the police had to be involved when he was robbed of his bushcraft kit whilst bimbling around on National Trust land. He got a very stiff talking to because he didn't have a legal good reason since the land owner had not given permission for him to do something that needed a knife. Rather the opposite since they post rules against most of what we think of as bushcraft.
Worth thinking about when deciding where you carry your tools.
Not trying to tell anyone what to do, that's for you to decide.
If all he got was a talking to, I reckon he was lucky. Thats daft behaviour, imo
Its a reduced volume special niche product with almost no alternative competing models or makes for customers to go to.
Right, thanks Chris, well i'm in New York this week so i will see what our cousins are selling buying it for, though given New Yorks strict rules, i may not find one.
Rob
Rob
I assume you mean NY City? Not sure that even New York's rules will make it restrictive enough for shops to bother selling a bladeless multi-tool. Outside of the city, particularly north and west, they are pretty relaxed about knives.
The only place I know for knives in New York City is Paragon Sports. Website does not show the bladeless model
Paragon Sports
867 BROADWAY AT 18TH STREET
NEW YORK, NY 10003
EMAIL US
CUSTOMERSERVICE@PARAGONSPORTS.COM
800-961-3030
212-255-8889
STORE HOURS:
10AM - 8:30PM | MON. TO FRI.
10AM - 8PM | SATURDAY
11AM - 7PM| SUNDAY
Best of luck.
If you can get it shipped fast, many hotels will accept packages, and many retailers will ship to hotels. My buddy got four Ritter Griptilians shipped to a hotel for him to collect, no fuss. I was amazed, but he said he did stuff like that, albeit not knives, all the time.
The only place I know for knives in New York City is Paragon Sports. Website does not show the bladeless model
Paragon Sports
867 BROADWAY AT 18TH STREET
NEW YORK, NY 10003
EMAIL US
CUSTOMERSERVICE@PARAGONSPORTS.COM
800-961-3030
212-255-8889
STORE HOURS:
10AM - 8:30PM | MON. TO FRI.
10AM - 8PM | SATURDAY
11AM - 7PM| SUNDAY
Best of luck.
If you can get it shipped fast, many hotels will accept packages, and many retailers will ship to hotels. My buddy got four Ritter Griptilians shipped to a hotel for him to collect, no fuss. I was amazed, but he said he did stuff like that, albeit not knives, all the time.
The few times I've needed a MT in the woods my Juice has been more than up to the task. What would a full size MT bring to the table that the Juice couldn't deal with?
