More natural clothing advice please

[Alreetmiowdmuka]

Hi everybody.in last year or so I've been thinking more and more about changing my hiking/camping clothing too let's say a more natural approach.now I'm not saying I wanna start walking around in furs n leather but would like an alternative too gortex n event etc.ive no objection too man made polyester n wot not.so I'm wondering if anyone can recommend anything jacket wise and offer info on water repellency and drying times.
Cheers Andy

 

[Clouston98]

A lot of people use waxed cotton Barbour type jackets. And quite a few people like ventile too, both cotton. I don't have either unfortunately but I do use wool jackets/ shirts all the time and they're very good. The waxed cotton will be the most waterproof and none of them will dry that quickly but the wool dries quick enough for me. I went on a four mile hike in my bison bushcraft shirt and it was chucking it down, what Forest Gump would call "big old fat rain"! And when I got home it wasn't wet on the inside and it dried so it wasn't wet to the touch at all in under 45 minutes. I'm a big believer in natural fibres, wool doesn't rip, smell bad after long periods, get holes in from the fire, doesn't make any noise and is pretty thorn proof too! Anyhow just my two pence really and my experiences, I went of Gore-tex a while ago and actually have a Rab Ridge Raider Bivvy which is e-Vent and it's not breathable realistically- when you roll it up its difficult to get the air out of the bottom and it balloons up at the bottom, not terrible for condensation if you sleep with the top open although you usually get a bit. The thing is wool/ cotton is very very breathable but not that waterproof, can be when waxed/ treated though, whereas Gore-tex is very waterproof but barely breathable, and it's a compromise for the other reasons listed above. Waffled a bit there but I hope it helps you mate!

 

[John Fenna]

I am a big lover of Ventile and find it more comfortable than Goretex or any other synthetic.
Double Ventile is pretty well proof against loads of rain, single against normal rainy conditions (especially if worn over wool) - the stuff was invented for immersion suits for pilots!
You can treat Ventile with a DWP treatment (Ventile recommend Grangers) for added repellancy of showers
Some think that it dries slowly but I do not find the drying rate an issue. It does get a little stiff if totally soaked.
If you think you will be out in torrents for days and want to avoid issues with stiffness and drying times carry a light poncho - which can double as a groundsheet or extra tarp in camp!

 

[copper_head]

Like John I'm a big fan of Ventile, I've had my single layer smock for 8 years now and it still works just as well today as when I got it. I've binned 3 gore-tex type jackets in the same time period.

I find Ventile just the thing for woodland and valley walking although I've recently invested in a Keela Munro for mountain days. My single layer ventile with a poncho on top took all the rain Scotland could throw at it and I was dry and comfortable.

 

[Alreetmiowdmuka]

Like John I'm a big fan of Ventile, I've had my single layer smock for 8 years now and it still works just as well today as when I got it. I've binned 3 gore-tex type jackets in the same time period.

I find Ventile just the thing for woodland and valley walking although I've recently invested in a Keela Munro for mountain days. My single layer ventile with a poncho on top took all the rain Scotland could throw at it and I was dry and comfortable.

View attachment 30072

Have you a link or a website too that smock your wearing pal

 

[copper_head]

Sure, the Ventile is a Snowsled Classic Smock.

This is probably a better pic of that though.



And the Poncho you can see in the 1st pic is a Tenth Wonder poncho tarp.

 

[Alreetmiowdmuka]

A lot of people use waxed cotton Barbour type jackets. And quite a few people like ventile too, both cotton. I don't have either unfortunately but I do use wool jackets/ shirts all the time and they're very good. The waxed cotton will be the most waterproof and none of them will dry that quickly but the wool dries quick enough for me. I went on a four mile hike in my bison bushcraft shirt and it was chucking it down, what Forest Gump would call "big old fat rain"! And when I got home it wasn't wet on the inside and it dried so it wasn't wet to the touch at all in under 45 minutes. I'm a big believer in natural fibres, wool doesn't rip, smell bad after long periods, get holes in from the fire, doesn't make any noise and is pretty thorn proof too! Anyhow just my two pence really and my experiences, I went of Gore-tex a while ago and actually have a Rab Ridge Raider Bivvy which is e-Vent and it's not breathable realistically- when you roll it up its difficult to get the air out of the bottom and it balloons up at the bottom, not terrible for condensation if you sleep with the top open although you usually get a bit. The thing is wool/ cotton is very very breathable but not that waterproof, can be when waxed/ treated though, whereas Gore-tex is very waterproof but barely breathable, and it's a compromise for the other reasons listed above. Waffled a bit there but I hope it helps you mate!

What's the shirt called pal

 

[rg598]

If you are looking for waterproof shell replacement made of natural materials, you will have a hard time. That is especially so if you expect performance similar to what you are used to from modern shells. This has always been a historic problem for woodsmen. Look at the writings of some of the guys from back then. It is something they constantly complain about.

Generally, you options are going to be treated of untreated cotton. Cotton can be treated either with wax or rubber (I don't think it is done any more) to make it waterproof. Such clothing is very heavy and not breathable. Untreated cotton like Ventile is more of a softshell than a waterproof coat. It keeps water away from you by absorbing it in its fibers, and will eventually leak. It is also very heavy (especially when wet), and will take a long time to dry. All these options are usable, but don't expect a direct comparison to modern waterproof shells. You are not going to get a natural material shell that will weigh 11oz, fit in your pocket, and be fully waterproof.

If you are not opposed to modern materials on principle, try materials like NeoShell. There are many option on the market beyond GoreTex and eVent.

 

[Clouston98]

What's the shirt called pal

The bush shirt mate, it's the hooded one, they do others too and I reckon they'll be winners as well!

 

[cbr6fs]

If you are looking for waterproof shell replacement made of natural materials, you will have a hard time. That is especially so if you expect performance similar to what you are used to from modern shells. This has always been a historic problem for woodsmen. Look at the writings of some of the guys from back then. It is something they constantly complain about.

Generally, you options are going to be treated of untreated cotton. Cotton can be treated either with wax or rubber (I don't think it is done any more) to make it waterproof. Such clothing is very heavy and not breathable. Untreated cotton like Ventile is more of a softshell than a waterproof coat. It keeps water away from you by absorbing it in its fibers, and will eventually leak. It is also very heavy (especially when wet), and will take a long time to dry. All these options are usable, but don't expect a direct comparison to modern waterproof shells. You are not going to get a natural material shell that will weigh 11oz, fit in your pocket, and be fully waterproof.

If you are not opposed to modern materials on principle, try materials like NeoShell. There are many option on the market beyond GoreTex and eVent.

Agree 100%

Had to wear Ventile for some years and i absolutely hated the stuff.
Heavy and got even heavier when wet, even worse was that when it did wet out it was as breathable as a bin linear.
Even moderate activity meant i was often as wet with sweat as i would have been in the rain.

One thing to think about when weighing up peoples advice on here is what activities are they doing, and does it match what you want to do.
Sitting around a camp fire in a Ventile jacket is completely different than spending a day in one on a very wet and rainy 16 mile hike.

So look at the type of activities the advisee is doing and weigh that against what you are likely to do.

Personally, if you gave me the option of a rainy day out in a ventile jacket i'd sooner stay at home.
But then i'm more of a hiker than a sit round the camp fire type bloke.

 

[Alreetmiowdmuka]

I agree too I will always keep my sorft shell and gortex for the days on the hill.maybe I should be more specific ha.what I m looking for is something that'll do me for days in the forest.ie 2 or 3 mile hike(might have the little one with me)i can wear around a fire.will shed a decent enough amount of water.

 

[John Fenna]

For those needs - My choice would be a good wool shirt over a T shirt of wool or bamboo ... possibly even cotton ... with a Ventile jacket or smock.
I do not think you could beat layered Wool, linen, bamboo under a Ventile outer - it is what I go for year around.
OK my mountain days are over now but in the lowlands this mix is unbeatable for comfort, performance and eco cred.
Looking at my coat rack it is all Ventile .. and I live in the heart of Wet Wales, only a short hour or so from what is now recognised from genuine Temperate Rain-forest (not joking here - look it up!): my EDC overtrousers are double Ventile.
If I am not wearing a Ventile top then
a - it is in my bag and it is the Welsh annual half day of summer
b - I am indoors
c - I am in my hammock

Other than the jacket I made myself my favourite currently available Ventile top is the Snugpack Westwinds Antarctic Smock (a review should be popping up here soon )
My other favourite is the no longer available Bison Bushcraft jacket.
For wool I would look at the Bison shirts (I do not have one myself but make my own or commission custom models from my local Welsh Wool Mill) Wool and Bamboo T-shirts from Aldi
If you want to go cotton (or Poly cotton) for shirts and trousers I prefer 5.11 as the cut fits me perfectly
Wool, bamboo,or Modal shreddies are out there too (Sue-me do some great stuff) and the comfort is better than you may think.
Unless you want to go silly lightweight then there are natural alternatives for everything - even tarps and groundsheets

 

[Tengu]

Id like to be able to afford ventile...

I found some waxed cotton trews last weekend.

 

[cranmere]

Another vote in the "it depends" camp here and I don't think there is an easy answer. Read old narratives and you find many comments about getting wet in prolonged rain, drying outer garments etc.

For trecking I go for Paramo which to my mind is a near-perfect solution. I've never been wet or sweaty in it. The one disadvantage is the weight but it's unusual in the UK to need waterproofs when the weather is hot so I just regard it as an ordinary layer of clothing. Ventile would be my first choice for natural material bit it gets stiff when wet and does eventually get wet through. I've done some medieval re-enactment and felted wool can be surprisingly water resistant but like Ventile it does eventually soak through and it's then slow to dry.

 

[Teepee]

I'm a big fan of the Nikwax fabric too for the hills. I find it highly breathable and comfortable to wear and it keeps the wet out for me. It's as close to a cotton for breathabilty as I've found. Yes, it's synthetic but unlike a shell, if it gets holed, it's not a big problem as the liner deals with the ingress.

As a comparison, if my base and mid layers are pretty damp and I put my Paclite Goretex jacket on, it'll take a good portion of the day to dry out completly. The Paramo made from Nikwax Analogy (I use the Quito at 550g odd as my main hiking waterproof) will see me dry in 30 mins to an hour or so.

Like Cranmere, I use it as I would a fleece/jumper but it also works as a windproof/waterproof very well.

 

[John Fenna]

Perhaps the Hilltrek paramo lined Ventile is the answer ....

 

[Bonzo Frog]

I've also used Paramo but found it a bit on the heavy side (and too warm for the summer) but it is excellent kit. I still use their trousers for winter walking and their Mountain fleece all year round. My main waterproof is now a Keela Munro jacket. A great winter jacket and as I've only had it 6 or 7 months I've still to find out how hot it will be in the warmer weather. I tend to use an old Barbour if I'm out in the woods because it's a bit on the tatty side (looks good to me) and copes better with sparks than a modern synthetic material!

Dave

 

[Alreetmiowdmuka]

Spotted this today has anybody tried it.the blurb certainly sounds interesting
http://www.thebushcraftstore.co.uk/...oof-and-quality-whats-not-to-like-16910-p.asp