More airgun laws

[Emma]

I seem to have the dubious honour of another potentially argumentative post.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4338010.stm
The way I understand it, this will make private airgun sales illegal, forcing everyone selling an airgun to sell to a registered dealer, and everyone buying to buy from a dealer. No club noticeboard or word-of-mouth sales, and definitely no mail or internet orders. Haven't a clue how it would affect people buying them as gifts for others...

 

[outdoorcode]

I can't understand how restricting sales of new air rifles to RFD's (Registered Firearms dealers) would help stop some brain dead idiot getting his/her hands on an air rifle. There are estimated to be 4-7 million in the UK and no one knows where these are, so getting your hands on an air rifle won't be much harder.

Also there are lots of companies whose main business is the sale of air guns and accessories online who may well be stuffed if this legislation goes through as many don't have retail premises, also many towns don't have a decent gun shop anymore so anybody serious about their sport is either going to have to a seriuos amount of miles or give up their sport if there is no where local to purchase what they want.

I think that use of existing laws would be a good solution, you can already get 5 years for many air gun offences, yet no one ever does.

my 2p spent

Andrew

 

[ScanDgrind]

I can't understand how restricting sales of new air rifles to RFD's (Registered Firearms dealers) would help stop some brain dead idiot getting his/her hands on an air rifle. There are estimated to be 4-7 million in the UK and no one knows where these are, so getting your hands on an air rifle won't be much harder.

Also there are lots of companies whose main business is the sale of air guns and accessories online who may well be stuffed if this legislation goes through as many don't have retail premises, also many towns don't have a decent gun shop anymore so anybody serious about their sport is either going to have to a seriuos amount of miles or give up their sport if there is no where local to purchase what they want.

I think that use of existing laws would be a good solution, you can already get 5 years for many air gun offences, yet no one ever does.

my 2p spent

Andrew

Ah! Andrew you've hit the nail on the head my friend. There is legislation in poace which would control nearly all gun crime, if only it were enforced. Unfortunately enforcing existing legislation costs time, effort and money. Sooo just so as they are seen by the General voting Public to be "doing something". The Government of the day dreams up even more legislation which let's face it will only affect the law abiding people of the country. (It is a well known fact that criminals don't abide by the law of the land ).

Look at the handgun ban that was imposed. According to our illustrious leaders it should have stopped the majority of gun crime. Hmmm, we know how effective that was. Although it did stop me from competing in my chosen sport. Ah well guess the public are much safer now eh!

All the best,

Tony.

 

[Ogri the trog]

Your right there Andrew,
It's yet more legislation that will only effect the law abiding citizen

I do not know what the ultimate answer is to this type of idiocy, but I'm sure it does not contain this type of show-off politics.

Ogri the trog

Blast, beaten to the point.

 

[beachlover]

The Government of the day dreams.

How appropriate

 

[mark a.]

Do you need a licence for owning an airgun? I was just wondering why buying a from a reputable dealer would then magically stop the person from doing bad things.

Also, would workarounds be possible? E.g. could a gun club register, then rather than club members selling direct to each other, they could "give" it to the club, who would then sell it on immediately to the other person?

 

[outdoorcode]

Currently you don't need a license provided your air rifle doesn't exceed 12ft/lb power and 6ft/lb for air pistols. If they go over this they become a firearm (although technically an airgun is classed as a firearm whatever power). If you do exceed the above you need to apply for a Firearms certificate (although you need the fac BEFORE the above limit airgun, otherwise you are looking at 5 years at her majestys pleasure), which means there is no limit to the airguns power limit.

The club idea would proably work, but shops will charge a fee for this service no doubt... would you pay an extra £20 to a shop on a £60-100 cgeap gun when no one knows you or your mate even own an airgun?.. hence where the policy falls to bits

 

[Joules]

I guess buying an airgun from Europe will by pass the UK (dream time) law.


Joules

 

[C_Claycomb]

Yeah, and get done by HM Customs for arms trafficking

 

[leon-1]

Folks. I think that you are overlooking things in a BIG way.

By controlling who sells an air rifle you can also control who you buy them from, in turn it means that they can control who air rifles are sold to.

The long and the short is that you may find yourself having to fork out for an "AIR RIFLE CERTIFICATE" and those that have them will be allowed to own them, those that don't will come under the same laws as those that have firearms illegaly.

If you cannot get one and you own an air rifle already then they will give you a compulsory purchase order and you will have to sell your air rifle (probably for less than you paid for it).

This serves 2 purposes, firstly to pander to certain parts of the population and secondly to pay for peoples pay rises (not yours and mine), effectively another stealth tax.

 

[ilovemybed]

That's what happens when City Folk are in charge...

Emma, you're not the Emma who posts at Stirton's forum too are you?

 

[MagiKelly]

If the legislation is only covering the sale of NEW airguns does it not mean we can still sell our used ones pretty much as we please.

 

[leon-1]

If the legislation is only covering the sale of NEW airguns does it not mean we can still sell our used ones pretty much as we please.

John I think the point to note was that they have to be sold by a registered FIREARMS DEALER and that they intend on stopping all unauthorised sales of air rifles even if they are second hand.

This to me means FIREARMS CERTIFICATE and there is virtually no getting away from it.

This could be because the gangs in the north have chosen the Webley Tempest over the Ingram Mac10 for drive by shootings and that Al Queada have moved from the AK47 to the Air Arms Pro sport.

 

[Kane]

Don't forget the conditions that will apply if a certificate is applied, security, somewhere to shoot (has to be acceptable to the granting body) and all the other disincentives to carrying out your chosen sport.

Kane

 

[swamp donkey]

Now I live in the country and I would prefer to see a completly gun free society , except the Army (cause that would be silly) and including the Police. I understand that some for pest control are required (much better than poison).
I have absolutly no idea why any one else would want one .

Mind you thinking about it I would be more happy with a bullet ban . ? would it be easier to control the sale of bullets or guns?

With regards to airguns I think you will find that the majority of the incidents actually happen in cities . where people ,cats , dogs , birds etc are all targeted on a regular basis . Our local paper has at least one airgun incident a month and I live in the country.

Now I would be happy for a complete ban but if not a licence sytem and proper licenced deals is a good compermise . I would also like to see knife sales banned on E bay.

Well thats my hole dug !! better get the overhead cover in place !

 

[Povarian]

Just another example of knee-jerk reactions by the government. I though it was already illegal to kill toddlers and shoot protected animals.

When will they realise that banning things is not the solution. That only serves to remove responsible examples of the use of these tools from society, leaving only the irresponsible and illegal, neither of which will be bothered by these laws.

My 10 year old has shot air guns under supervision, and has been taught responsibility and safety. He also owns a knife, knows how to light fires without matches/lighter and has won two archery competitions in his age class. They'll probably ban all those next.

Coming back on topic a little - Surely responsibility is one of the essences of bushcraft - responsibility and taking the consequences for your actions (that's why we carry first aid kits ).

Now where was that thread on Canada.

 

[leon-1]

When will they realise that banning things is not the solution.

They won't they are driven by popular and topical public opinion.

Once upon a time you were told "don't play with matches, you'll get burnt" and someone else in the family would say "let them get burnt because they won't do it again"

What did you do??

You played and got burnt.

Now it says keep out of reach of children (don't let them near them), remove the threat and it is no longer a threat.

The problem is that it is in our nature to want that which we are told we cannot have and in some cases that ethical veiw of right and wrong is blurred because they are not allowed to make the mistakes that people were allowed to in the past.

People do have to take responsibility for thier own misdeeds, but the system has evolved to protect people and in this system the best way of protecting people (whether you agree with it or not) is to remove the tool rather than understand the cause.

It is a nasty side effect of wanting to protect our own that leads to a general diminished responsibility throughout the country and the culture of passing the buck and "it wasn't my fault".

 

[Povarian]

I guess Herbert Spencer was right when he said:

"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools"

 

[Kane]

I have absolutly no idea why any one else would want one .

Plenty of people have no idea why bushcrafters want to start fires in the countryside - better ban them

I see no reason why anyone would want to watch a football game and the level of trouble and expense that has been created by fans of the game surely warrants a ban.

Why on earth would anyone want to watch people running around in a circle - only leads criminals into training to be able to run away from the police especially with those specially designed running shoes, even worse are the dangerous individuals actually throwing sharp or heavy objects just to see how far they will go - ban that too


etc etc etc

Kane

 

[leon-1]

AT THIS POINT i THINK PEOPLE SHOULD TAKE A DEEP BREATH AND CALM DOWN.

Everyone on here has a right to a point of view.

I am no great fan of the idea, however it is not fully in place yet. Air rifles are not being banned, just access controlled and there are petitions about it being filed.