Mora Pathfinder Fail

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Stew

Bushcrafter through and through
Nov 29, 2003
5,746
688
Aylesbury
stewartjlight-knives.com
yes it will, but when done badly like shown its inevitably going to break... people dont always think straight when tired, cold and hungry though do they

That's like doing anything when tired, cold, hungry. A larger knife may mean you're more tired earlier or more dangerous to yourself. It's all part of learning though.

Many 3mm knives get batonned all the time but the reports of breakage are quite low so they must have a fair margin for error.
 

sunndog

Full Member
May 23, 2014
3,567
472
derbyshire
Remember, an awful lot of people just have no concept of stresses and strains or where the strength lies within a particular tool/item
Its just a knife to some people. They think a knife should be able to batton, so if it breaks while cross battoning an oak gate post...then it was simply a rubbish knife
No more thought to it
thats why we have stupidly thick blades on bushy knives these days
 

mark.177

Maker
Apr 21, 2014
722
152
Cornwall UK
That's like doing anything when tired, cold, hungry. A larger knife may mean you're more tired earlier or more dangerous to yourself. It's all part of learning though.

Many 3mm knives get batonned all the time but the reports of breakage are quite low so they must have a fair margin for error.

yes but a heavier knife does make quicker work when doing the most tiring jobs so whatever it takes up in weight carrying it makes up for when using
 

Stew

Bushcrafter through and through
Nov 29, 2003
5,746
688
Aylesbury
stewartjlight-knives.com
yes but a heavier knife does make quicker work when doing the most tiring jobs so whatever it takes up in weight carrying it makes up for when using

Just to play devils advocate some more ( :D ) you then have a heavier knife that's not so easy to use for finer jobs.

I guess that's why there's no one grail knife.
 

Stew

Bushcrafter through and through
Nov 29, 2003
5,746
688
Aylesbury
stewartjlight-knives.com
and just to add this in here as a blast from the past (took some searching out to re-find it!)

BustedRecon720.jpg


Cold Steel Recon Scout - 5/16" thick steel!

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/328256-CS-Recon-Scout-Fails-Miserably
 

mark.177

Maker
Apr 21, 2014
722
152
Cornwall UK
Just to play devils advocate some more ( :D ) you then have a heavier knife that's not so easy to use for finer jobs.

I guess that's why there's no one grail knife.

why? i have a 6mm thick 6" blade on my main user and dont find it a hindrance. i also have a 4mm smaller blade. with good balance and design i get on just fine with the larger making fire bow sets, chopping heavier wood for camp construction and dressing game, have even made trap components. i could carry a machete, axe, medium knife and a folder? and have the best tool for every job... i trust my knife.
 

joshiecole

Member
Apr 30, 2012
28
0
london
Mora knives offer incredible value to performance ratio. Some of their models are ten quid, and for that ten quid you are probably getting 70% of the edge retention and 70%* of the toughness of a 250 pound semi-custom knife.

*rough guess

I wrote this article a few days ago about a different way of approaching outdoor tools, away from the 'survivalist' mentality. Just my thoughts, I welcome disagreement, all part of the fun!
 
and just to add this in here as a blast from the past (took some searching out to re-find it!)

BustedRecon720.jpg


Cold Steel Recon Scout - 5/16" thick steel!

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/328256-CS-Recon-Scout-Fails-Miserably

Wow that really is a blast from the past!
- Notice the thickness of the blade
- Notice that the blade is black. That means that the grind is left deliberately rough to hold the coating. It also means that there will be a steep secondary bevel to form the edge - the shiny bit.
- Notice the knot 1/3 of the way back from the point of the knife. Due to the geometry and grind of the knife, that knot will work as well as a pivot point as if you drilled through the log and knife and put in a steel high tensile bolt.
- Notice the crack below the back of the snapped off blade, so someone has been see-sawing the knife by applying force to the back of the handle. With that crack, the back of the knife is free and can impart full force to the blade/tang junction with every hard hit to the point, the end of the handle being held firmly.
- Notice the separate guard, and how securely the rubber handle is still attached to a rectangular tang. Most especially notice the abrupt 90 degree angle where the blade meets the tang, which really causes a stress point because tangs are usually annealed, and probably poorly with that knife.

Anyway that's my take. I'm of the firm belief that since any trip out can turn nasty faster than most would believe, it's essential to have a really sharp well honed and trusted tool along which you can't lose because it resides between your ears, though you should wear a hat to keep it at a suitable temperature. Then you won't do silly things like that! With a very strong knife and that knot you could have ended up with a stuck knife.. Why not use any knife to make some wedges and start cracks and do things that way? The great point about that picture is that it shows us not to judge the strength of a knife by its appearance but to test tools and then use them well within their known limits.

I've made my mistakes and made some more than once because they were so unbelievable.
I tried various V bevels on a super heavy Barteaux machete and used it to clear some thick fallen alder. I chopped at an acute angle to avoid the alder spring boarding (splitting up). It split down and the blade was able to turn into that split and get totally stuck. in line with the grain and so in line with the tree. I could open the crack by hanging from the tree.. but then I couldn't reach the machete. I had to chop the tree apart with an axe because the machete was stuck in it like the sword in the stone. I had to repeat that one a few times just to see properly how it worked. Then I gave the machete a more acute convex grind because stuck blades could be a serious issue.
I normally drag long dead conifer branches I've snapped off trees down to the beach, place them lengthwise on top of a log and chop through the branch half way along its length and into the log with a hatchet or axe. Then by wrenching on each end of the branch, the split opens against the hatchet blade along the whole length of the branch. It's a great way to get wood dry enough to get a fire started in bad conditions - in very short order. With a knife, you baton a cut across the grain half way through and close to the thick end of the branch, stick the short end closest to the cut into a crack between trees or logs, then use a lot more force to carefully open the split. It's a lot trickier since you are prying only one way and the split tends to run out. On getting Fallknivens, I wondered if I could drive the H1 point first through a branch into the log and open the split as with a hatchet. Unfortunately with a knife, it doesn't work no matter how hard and deep you've pounded the blade and so as I wrenched on the branch to open the split the knife came free and I made the most powerful knife thrower... The knife flew and stuck in a log but it could have gone into the ocean which is deep a few feet from shore, or caused a serious accident. On really thinking things through, I wondered how I could ever have thought that it would work...
So I've had my knife issues too! That's where a lot of experience with a blade really counts in not risking the blade or yourself, no matter what blade you've chosen.
 

spader

Settler
Dec 19, 2009
981
6
Scotland
I think there are knives which are good for battoning. For example, my Boker Magnum Camp knife made of 4mm thick 440 stainless steel in full tang config. I have used it to batton for last 5 - 6 years - all sort of logs from thin to 5 - 6 inch thick hard wood. Many times it has been pounded like hell on the handle as well, but it never fails. It does not even get dull. A great knife.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=B...ChMI0ejTjrTaxgIVxqMeCh3IvQHM&biw=1348&bih=883
 
Last edited:

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
22,281
1,790
64
Pembrokeshire
A technique for using small, weak knives to split tough rounds of wood.
The knife is a Lidl paring knife, the wood is seasoned Hawthorn...
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It works outdoors too....
 

richardhomer

Settler
Aug 23, 2012
775
6
STOURBRIDGE
Mora knives offer incredible value to performance ratio. Some of their models are ten quid, and for that ten quid you are probably getting 70% of the edge retention and 70%* of the toughness of a 250 pound semi-custom knife.

*rough guess

I wrote this article a few days ago about a different way of approaching outdoor tools, away from the 'survivalist' mentality. Just my thoughts, I welcome disagreement, all part of the fun!

Thanks for the link. I enjoyed your article.
 

Everything Mac

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 30, 2009
3,106
82
34
Scotland
*Uses a knife to do the job of an axe. - Wonders why it fails...



Just because you can baton with a knife doesn't mean you should. If you really must baton some wood, be realistic about it. He was pushing that blade way too far in my opinion.

Andy
 
Somewhere on the (1990's) archives at Bladeforums is a post by Ron Hood who was (and still is) running a survival school. That was at the start of the big heavy duty knife craze. In the post he explains that while his school could get liability insurance for people using large knives, they couldn't get liability insurance for hatchets. Food for thought...

At the same time though military survival training and hard core survival courses were knife based, because that's what a person is likely to have in a survival situation. Here I can be in some pretty rugged country within minutes of town (driving) and normally I use a tiny hatchet or something bigger, a folding bucksaw (15") and a knife to light fires from scratch in all conditions. Every little while, though I go through the extra trouble (mostly time) of just using a Mora. I do that "practising" because if trouble comes up, then I don't want to be "practising" at that time, but confident. Since all wood here needs to be split, my knives get lots of baton use.
 

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