Midgies and Flies

[ol smokey]

I don't know that I have seen any Posts or threads on this subject so I thought that I would put in something as that season is coming around soon I hope.
I have tried several commercial remedies like Bug Off--- Jungle Juice--Mossie Guard and such things as Citronella Oil without much success, however I was looking through some photos today and found one of myself looking a bit of a tube, but it reminded me of a success I had last autumn when the flies were bad. I had a friend who used to come out with our Rambling Club and when the flies got bad He plaited some ferns or bracken at their stem ends and wore them like a cooly hat and it worked great. Finding the need for something to get rid of the flies and with no ferns around I just stuck about half a dozen long grasses stem first under my hat and it worked just as well and was a bit less conspicuous than ferns. I suppose it is the same idea as the Australians with the corks dangling from trhe brims of their hats. I have not had a chance to try it with the midgies which are a lot more bothersome to me anyway. Not quite as daft looking as corks either, but if it works it is worth a try . Just thought I would pass this one on now that we might be getting some warmer weather. Any other ideas on this matter would be appreciated as I have a low tolerance of the wee b-----s Hope this helps anyone of a similar disposition and anyone coming North of the Border after the beginning of June.

 

[Lush]

Hi Smokey,

I dont know many bushcrafty solutions to midges and flies. But I know a few solutions you might want to try.

Permethrin of Deltamethrin impregnation of clothes could be a good thing. I know I would try it if I really had to go out to a place infested with midges. You can also impregnate a mosquito net with it.

You could buy a bug jacket which make you sit comfortable at night without the risk of being sucked empty or stung crazy. Of course you can also wear it during daytime.

Both are no natural bushcrafty solutions of course. But I am not sure if that is your goal.

Lush

 

[oops56]

Well burning fungus will keep flies away what kind not know. but i tried this once a tea infuser the metal one like a egg put fungus in it can hang it near near your hammock or on you back pack has you hike watch out it gets hot

 

[Hunter_zero]

Hi Smokey,


Permethrin of Deltamethrin impregnation of clothes could be a good thing. I know I would try it if I really had to go out to a place infested with midges. You can also impregnate a mosquito net with it.


Lush

Lush, not a good idea at all!

I work with Permethrin and it's not good stuff. My advice as someone who works with insecticides most days is never ever use any insceticide on your skin unless it has been specificaly formulated for such use.

I have 5 ltrs of Permethrin oil here and if I thought it would keep the flies off me, I would use it. I know better. Same goes for Deltamethrin.



John

 

[Toadflax]

According to Richard Mabey in "Plants with a Purpose" when talking about elder, "a sprig of the leaves, worn in your hat, will keep the flies at bay. An infusion of the leaves will even kill some of them off". I have not yet tried this.

I personally found that washing with Wright's Coal Tar Soap worked well - when we were holidaying near Oban, I was never bitten, but the rest of the family were. However, my wife said that the smell of Coal Tar Soap would repel any living thing - including her.

I have also just bought a tin of Nordic Summer insect repellent from raymears.com - but haven't yet tried it. It seems to be made of various tarry constituents. £8 with free delivery.



Geoff

 

[Lush]

Lush, not a good idea at all!

I work with Permethrin and it's not good stuff. My advice as someone who works with insecticides most days is never ever use any insceticide on your skin unless it has been specificaly formulated for such use.

I have 5 ltrs of Permethrin oil here and if I thought it would keep the flies off me, I would use it. I know better. Same goes for Deltamethrin.



John

That's your opinion. It is the same stuff that is used to get rid of human lice (head lice.) The stinky stuff that lot's of ppl. know is a 0.5% solution. There are a lot of articles about how harmfull permethrin would be. The same amount of articles can be found that state the opposite. It is said to be almost harmless to mammals.

If you work with it on a regular basis it is however another story. I would take all precautions possible. That's a sensible thing to do. You could end up being infertile otherwise!

Lush

 

[Hunter_zero]

That's your opinion. It is the same stuff that is used to get rid of human lice (head lice.) The stinky stuff that lot's of ppl. know is a 5% solution. There are a lot of articles about how harmfull permethrin would be. The same amount of articles can be found that state the opposite. It is said to be almost harmless to mammals.

If you work with it on a regular basis it is however another story. I would take all precautions possible. That's a sensible thing to do. You could end up being infertile otherwise!

Lush

Not just my opinion, it's the opinion of most professional pest controllers.
When talking about or suggesting the use of toxic chemicals it is most unwise to suggest a sweeping statement of use. As I said, by all means use a preparation that has been designed for use on skin, such as your head lice treatment but it would be very silly to splash permethrin insecticide over your skin. Every substance has an LD50, most substances have an accumulative effect. Toxins can be absorbed in many ways. Whilst I can appreciate that many preparations use Pyrethrins as an active ingredient, most are not designed for continual or long term use.

I would also advise anyone who might take Lushes advice to check google first ( http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC34291)


John

 

[Lush]

Not just my opinion, it's the opinion of most professional pest controllers.
When talking about or suggesting the use of toxic chemicals it is most unwise to suggest a sweeping statement of use. As I said, by all means use a preparation that has been designed for use on skin, such as your head lice treatment but it would be very silly to splash permethrin insecticide over your skin. Every substance has an LD50, most substances have an accumulative effect. Toxins can be absorbed in many ways. Whilst I can appreciate that many preparations use Pyrethrins as an active ingredient, most are not designed for continual or long term use.

John

Ahhh, now I understand your objection. I mean using a permethrin product that is developed for impregnating clothes or a mosquito net. NOT using permethrin solution on the skin directly. That would be very bad and an overkill also. Really, I have read the amounts of permethrin that would be absorbed by the skin if you sleep under a mosquito net impregnated with permethrin. It's a very small percentage really.

The story of LD50 is something that's hard to understand to most ppl. There are so many things that affect how seriously one has to take it. Kitchen salt for example has a LD50 of about 20 grams or so. It means 50% of the ppl. that eat 20 grams kitchen salt will die (dont pin me down on a few grams.) Permethrin is not a carcinogen. That's what is important to me. You are right about accumulative. You probably know more about toxic products then I do. It's mainly also a matter of choice and believe. I believe permethrin is almost non-toxic to humans in VERY small amounts. But NEVER apply it to the skin directly!

There are permethrin and deltamethrin tablets and spray's that are approved by health organisations. Especially meant for malaria protection and also to keep babies free of insects (whitin their mosquito nets.)

 

[Hunter_zero]

Ahhh, now I understand your objection. I mean using a permethrin product that is developed for impregnating clothes or a mosquito net. NOT using permethrin solution on the skin directly.

There should be no issue with using preparations designed for use in such a way. Some of the guys will spray an oil based permethrin insecticide on their trousers before doing a flea job, the stuff makes your leg hairs stand straight for hours. Bendiocarbs are the worst, originating from Carbolic acid. We used to use Organophosphates, which originated as a by product of nerve gas.


John

 

[Lush]

There should be no issue with using preparations designed for use in such a way. Some of the guys will spray an oil based permethrin insecticide on their trousers before doing a flea job, the stuff makes your leg hairs stand straight for hours. Bendiocarbs are the worst, originating from Carbolic acid. We used to use Organophosphates, which originated as a by product of nerve gas.


John

brrrrrrrrr, that story makes my hairs raise. Yeah, never use any pure insecticide on your bare skin or even clothes... brrrrr. It can cause many strange sensations I don't even want to know about..

Anyway's maybe some other ppl. know more natural solutions. Ray Mears used the sap of a plant to apply to the skin. The only problem is that most solutions do not work as well as DEET or the stuff I mentioned earlier (which is NOT used the same way as DEET)

 

[Barn Owl]

Not that i've tried it , but have heard of folk using an 'Avon' product called Oh so soft or similar with better results than usual products.

 

[Toddy]

There's a really simple solution that helps to prevent midge bites and if you can stand the smell of the smoke it can be effectively burnt too.
Melissa, Mugwort and Bog Myrtle. Basically crush the leaves and make them into a good strong tea. Use the liquor as a wipe or to rinse a scarf in. Not 100% but it really does help.
The plants burned on a charcoal block will give off enough scent to discourage the pests too. I like the scent but too much Mugwort isn't a good thing.
All three are native plants and quite widely available.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[EdS]

Permethrin et al will not stop the midges landing on you or buzzing as it is a contact killer. When I used to sample the wool mills (Permethrin is used as a moth proofer) you could not get near the 100% pure stuff. The wool was treated in closed systems to which around 5% permethrin (max) was added.

Most permethrin oils contain about 103g/kg (or g/l) for WHO specification.

100ml of the stuff is enough to kill the invertabrate life in a substancial section or a river and it isn't half persistant.

Not some thing to be used lightly. It is a neurotoxin that has been linked (note linked) to several problems not least of which is the stripping of the mylin sheath from nerves. It has also been linked to respitory problems in people with hayfever. And US EPA have classed it as a carcinergen as it has caused liver and lung tumours in lab trials on mice (effect on humans?)

Guess you can tell its not my favourite substance.

 

[EdS]

avon skin so soft works well:

http://avonshop.co.uk/avonshop/product.asp?pf_id=4982

 

[ol smokey]

Sorry EdS Avon O So Soft May work down South but we had some with us on the Isle of Islay last year and it certainly does not work for the Scottish Midge, there was a partyof Americans camping beside us and they had bought four jars of the stuff but were bitten to death. The Midges up here are like mini alligators. Apparently the Avon O So Soft worked for the over in the States as far as I can remember

 

[Eric_Methven]

I have found a combination of a midgie head net and a pipe with some good strong tobacco works most of the time. I'd be cautious of sticking ferns on my head. Lymes disease springs to mind.

Marmite on toast every morning for at least two weeks before you go camping also works. The little blighters don't like marmite and by then the scent will have permeated your body and you'r sweat will make them puke and run away.

Eric

 

[KAE1]

I really like these bush lites from attacc

http://www.attacc.com/scripts/sh000...Accessories_Explorer.html#aBUSH_20a#aBUSH_20a

You can use citronella candles. I don't know how effective they are but I just like them so I'll tell my wife we really need one as they are great for keeping midges at bay.

 

[Hunter_zero]

I have found a combination of a midgie head net and a pipe with some good strong tobacco works
Eric

Nicotine! It used to be the most wise spread of all insecticides and was / is considered one of the most effective insecticides.

The story goes.... During WW2 the German government was carrying out research in to an alternative insecticide because they were sending all tobacco to the troops. As such, they were in short supply of their nicotine based insecticide. They developed Organophosphates and as a by product nerve gas which they also used. So you could say that insects played a big role in the holocaust!

John

 

[EdS]

The Avon stuff worked for at Glen Trool this weekend - the other guys where bitten to death.

My wool hat, no doubt treated with permethrin, had a complete cover of dead midges.

 

[C_Claycomb]

I use permithrin on my trousers, outer socks and other garments that are going to come into contact with undergrowth, primarily to combat ticks and chiggers. In this role the 0.5% solution sold for the purpose is excellent. It is advertised as lasting for two weeks per application, even with a wash cycle. That should be enough that you can treat clothes before leaving home, then not worry about it again. Chiggers are able to infest clothing so that you keep getting new bites for days after having picked them up. Its well worth keeping them from coming aboard.

DEET works well on mosquitoes, ticks and chiggers somewhat, but is oily and smells pretty bad. I use it under my trousers, on shins and ankles, in tick areas, and on upper exposed skin for mossies. I prefer to keep exposed skin to a minimum and rely on loose clothing to stop bite through.

In Scotland I used a product I bought from Wilderness 1-2-1 (Rob’s company) that was made with Neem tree extract. It worked well to stop the midges biting, but nothing will stop them from crawling. It smelled nice, but didn’t work as long as the synthetic stuff.

Also good for the midges was Autan which is a Bayer product that I found on sale in Wilkinsons. I thought it smelled better than DEET and did a good job.

I was very pleased with a product called Prevent from Agropharm Ltd. It is made from pyrethrum (found in members of the chrysanthemum family). The pressurized spray is really small, pocket sized, good for about 400 squirts, is both repellent and insecticidal and is intended for skin and clothing use. It kept the Norwegian midges from biting really well.

In the case of flies like the midge, the cleg and tsetse, colour and movement are attractors. In Scotland I found I attracted fewer midges wearing khaki/stone/tan clothing than I did when wearing loden green. In Norway with the clegs, and deer flies the same thing applied. I had flies going for my brown hat and leaving the rest of me alone. The guys with me who wore greens and darker clothes had flies going for the darkest, warmest, parts. I saw a report that somewhere in Africa they were sellectively targeting tsetse fly by treating black cloth in powerful insectiside and errecting it on a frame and setting it in a sunny spot in the bush. The flies were attracted to the large, dark, sun warmed shape.

For midges a head net is hard to beat. The repellants don’t stop them walking on you and that can get really annoying. A wide brimmed hat and net give you some time out from swatting.