Messed up my knife, please help!
- Thread starter Zammo
- Start date
Just use the scales for handles for fire steels or if you make a sami style knife as spacers dont wast them .
I started on my second attempt. I used the method listed above to drill the holes, namely using the blade as a jig. But I haven't glued the blade to the scales yet. I'm still not sure how i'm going to shape the scales nearest the blade. One little problem I did have was a small nick of wood came out next to one of the pins, but I may fill this and when I varnish the knife it should look ok.
I usually get the scales closer to the final shape before I glue them up.
First cut should be with a knife (something like a sloyd if you have one) then files/rasps, then abrasives, I finish with scrapers.
Careful not to scratch the blade.
I'll have some knives in various stages of done-ness at the sussex easter meet at holmbush if you want to come and have a look.
First cut should be with a knife (something like a sloyd if you have one) then files/rasps, then abrasives, I finish with scrapers.
Careful not to scratch the blade.
I'll have some knives in various stages of done-ness at the sussex easter meet at holmbush if you want to come and have a look.
Zammo said:
It might be a good idea to leave off with the varnish, Zammo. A wood finishing oil would probably be more comfortable on the hand, and look a lot nicer too.
And when you have started the sanding process, save some of the wood dust, mix it with some epoxy, and use that to fill the nick near the pin hole, that way you avoid having the colour matching problems with a ready made wood filler (if that was what you were going to use). Never tried it myself, so, maybe someone more experienced could...er...'chip in' on this one.
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Paul.
if its a shallow chip, just file it down (on both sides of the blade ofcourse 
)
I usually prettymuch finish the part of the handle close to the blade (and if i have a part sticking out at the back i finish that as well).
Then glue on one side.
Drill the holes in the glued side.
Stick on the other side, and there you have to make sure the finished parts line up nicely.
Drill the other side through the first side and the blade, and then the fun of shaping the rest of the handle begins.
I usually start with a figure saw, work the saw markt away with a file/rasp.
The end where i make the scales flush with the steel is a slow process of sanding, first 80 grid to speed it up a bit, then 220 until i see it just tough the steel.
The last part i do with 400 grid.
Depending on the material i'll sand it down to 600 and oil it of (woods like ebony and african blackwood) sand to 1200 grid and give it a nice shine on the buffing wheel (dirty job btw)
I never varnish a handle, it doesn't penetrate far into the wood so once you nick the varnish, stuff like water, blood and other muck penetrates the wood and makes it look dirty.
A good start is to buy a book on knifemaking (e.d. loveless).
They contain great pointers on how to....(fil in task)
)I usually prettymuch finish the part of the handle close to the blade (and if i have a part sticking out at the back i finish that as well).
Then glue on one side.
Drill the holes in the glued side.
Stick on the other side, and there you have to make sure the finished parts line up nicely.
Drill the other side through the first side and the blade, and then the fun of shaping the rest of the handle begins.
I usually start with a figure saw, work the saw markt away with a file/rasp.
The end where i make the scales flush with the steel is a slow process of sanding, first 80 grid to speed it up a bit, then 220 until i see it just tough the steel.
The last part i do with 400 grid.
Depending on the material i'll sand it down to 600 and oil it of (woods like ebony and african blackwood) sand to 1200 grid and give it a nice shine on the buffing wheel (dirty job btw)
I never varnish a handle, it doesn't penetrate far into the wood so once you nick the varnish, stuff like water, blood and other muck penetrates the wood and makes it look dirty.
A good start is to buy a book on knifemaking (e.d. loveless).
They contain great pointers on how to....(fil in task)
My procedure for putting handles on are:
1.Flatten handle slabs
2.Degrease slabs and liners and epoxy fibre liner to handle slabs, clamp and wait until set.
3.Put blade handle against one slab and drill all the holes on one side. Do the same with the other handle slab.Do not glue the slabs to the blade at this stage. Two small drops of superglue can be used to hold the slabs temporay to the handle while drilling. Knock the slabs on a hard surface to break the glue joint.
4.Put the handle slabs together, liners contacting each other with rivets to align them and shape and finish the front part of the handle slabs nearest the blade.
5.Degrease the handle slabs and blade handle and epoxy them together, use handle rivets to align the rivet holes to the handle slabs and handle. Clamp and wait to set.
6.When set, drift out rivets, shape handle, set rivets and finish handle.
For best fit, keep all mating surfaces flat by rubbing on a sheet of medium sandpaper taped to a flat surface between each step.
Should look like this.
1.Flatten handle slabs
2.Degrease slabs and liners and epoxy fibre liner to handle slabs, clamp and wait until set.
3.Put blade handle against one slab and drill all the holes on one side. Do the same with the other handle slab.Do not glue the slabs to the blade at this stage. Two small drops of superglue can be used to hold the slabs temporay to the handle while drilling. Knock the slabs on a hard surface to break the glue joint.
4.Put the handle slabs together, liners contacting each other with rivets to align them and shape and finish the front part of the handle slabs nearest the blade.
5.Degrease the handle slabs and blade handle and epoxy them together, use handle rivets to align the rivet holes to the handle slabs and handle. Clamp and wait to set.
6.When set, drift out rivets, shape handle, set rivets and finish handle.
For best fit, keep all mating surfaces flat by rubbing on a sheet of medium sandpaper taped to a flat surface between each step.
Should look like this.
I use meths to degrease, epoxy is sensitive to surface contamination and dosen't adhere as well if there is oil or grease on the mating surfaces. Fingers always leave grease on surfaces they touch.
Once the glue has set, you need to remove the rivets that locate the slabs and blade so you can shape the handle, you can use a punch or a stout nail to knock them out. I like to shape the handle without rivets in place but you can glue the rivets and slabs at the same time but its harder to shape.
Once the handle is shaped, re-drill the holes the rivets were in to clean up the holes, as you are using mosaic pins, the setting part can't be done. Setting is peening the heads of rivets to expand them so they hold the slabs in place.
Once the glue has set, you need to remove the rivets that locate the slabs and blade so you can shape the handle, you can use a punch or a stout nail to knock them out. I like to shape the handle without rivets in place but you can glue the rivets and slabs at the same time but its harder to shape.
Once the handle is shaped, re-drill the holes the rivets were in to clean up the holes, as you are using mosaic pins, the setting part can't be done. Setting is peening the heads of rivets to expand them so they hold the slabs in place.
Hi zammo,
Thought my last comment was a bit negative and I've been working on a couple of knivest this weekend and I thought I'd show you what I mean.
This is how far I like to get my scales before thinking about glueing them up:
Note the temporary softwood pins holding them together while I work them. I 've got a longer pair that I can hold them on the blade with so I can work the scales on the blade prior to sticking them on.
The blade end is just about down to size and sanded to 120grit...
...save getting fiddly trying to and it near the blade.
Most of the shaping has been done with the fine side of a farriers rasp and then 60grit to get the teethmarks out.
Thought my last comment was a bit negative and I've been working on a couple of knivest this weekend and I thought I'd show you what I mean.
This is how far I like to get my scales before thinking about glueing them up:
Note the temporary softwood pins holding them together while I work them. I 've got a longer pair that I can hold them on the blade with so I can work the scales on the blade prior to sticking them on.
The blade end is just about down to size and sanded to 120grit...
...save getting fiddly trying to and it near the blade.
Most of the shaping has been done with the fine side of a farriers rasp and then 60grit to get the teethmarks out.
dunno if this will help, but this is how I fit scales:
take wood that has been bandsawed into scales adn then flatten them on the disc sander or linisher. Place the blade on one piece (the tang side of scale down) and drill first hole. Place a spare drill of correct size in through the first hole and drill next one (repeat until all holes are done). I do the same on the other scale, making sure to place the blade in the same relative position so that grain matches up
the I draw the shape of the front end on the inside of one scale and using the linisher (or disc) with a table set up, I grind to the line. Then I pin the scale together as they will be when done using two drill bits and grind the second scale to match the first.
I now take the pair (still pinned) to the vise and hand sand the front surface to my desired finish. At this stage I oil then wax the end to stop excess epoxy from sticking to it
Once I have dry fitted everything I degrease the surfaces and glue it all together, held in place with G-clamps.
then it's down to shaping and sanding
I've found that this is the best method for me, so that's how my students do it
take wood that has been bandsawed into scales adn then flatten them on the disc sander or linisher. Place the blade on one piece (the tang side of scale down) and drill first hole. Place a spare drill of correct size in through the first hole and drill next one (repeat until all holes are done). I do the same on the other scale, making sure to place the blade in the same relative position so that grain matches up
the I draw the shape of the front end on the inside of one scale and using the linisher (or disc) with a table set up, I grind to the line. Then I pin the scale together as they will be when done using two drill bits and grind the second scale to match the first.
I now take the pair (still pinned) to the vise and hand sand the front surface to my desired finish. At this stage I oil then wax the end to stop excess epoxy from sticking to it
Once I have dry fitted everything I degrease the surfaces and glue it all together, held in place with G-clamps.
then it's down to shaping and sanding
I've found that this is the best method for me, so that's how my students do it
Zammo
I usually go about scaling a knife a little differently.
1.First I clamp both scales and spacers to the blade in a sandwiched group in the same order they are to be in in the handle.
2. I drill using the blade as a template but a little at a time just little divots to keep it straight.
3. As I drill each hole I sand my pin and place it in the hole and leave it clamped
4. when done do a dry fit witht eh blade in place(remebering if I used slpacer material to sand of the burs.
Fitting the handle:
1. after the dry fit I assemble the stack of material in the same order withthe blade out of the group then insert pins and lay the blade on top of the stack.
2. I trace the shape of the blade ontoo the handle material with a contrasting colour pen.
3. Remover the blade form on top of the stack but leave the pins in adn cut out the shape(doncut out the shape of the handle near the recosos yet)
4. after cutting out he shape I palce the blade on top again and make marks for the limits of the part of the handle nearest the recoso then return and cut and sand it to shape.
5. I shape the upper part of the handle to a finished stae sanding and polishing it to a 1200 grit so that it is finished at le4ast a 1/2 inch back form the recoso.
A couple of examples
Here is one with spacer and one no spacer
I prep the handles for glueing (i'll skip this part) and then I move onto the glueing stage remeebering to keep scap cloth and WD40 handy so I can wipe off any excess epoxy that oozes out onto the blade.
Probably some over lap with others but that is how I do it as thee are many ways.
I usually go about scaling a knife a little differently.
1.First I clamp both scales and spacers to the blade in a sandwiched group in the same order they are to be in in the handle.
2. I drill using the blade as a template but a little at a time just little divots to keep it straight.
3. As I drill each hole I sand my pin and place it in the hole and leave it clamped
4. when done do a dry fit witht eh blade in place(remebering if I used slpacer material to sand of the burs.
Fitting the handle:
1. after the dry fit I assemble the stack of material in the same order withthe blade out of the group then insert pins and lay the blade on top of the stack.
2. I trace the shape of the blade ontoo the handle material with a contrasting colour pen.
3. Remover the blade form on top of the stack but leave the pins in adn cut out the shape(doncut out the shape of the handle near the recosos yet)
4. after cutting out he shape I palce the blade on top again and make marks for the limits of the part of the handle nearest the recoso then return and cut and sand it to shape.
5. I shape the upper part of the handle to a finished stae sanding and polishing it to a 1200 grit so that it is finished at le4ast a 1/2 inch back form the recoso.
A couple of examples
Here is one with spacer and one no spacer
I prep the handles for glueing (i'll skip this part) and then I move onto the glueing stage remeebering to keep scap cloth and WD40 handy so I can wipe off any excess epoxy that oozes out onto the blade.
Probably some over lap with others but that is how I do it as thee are many ways.
Thanks for all the tips. I have the holes drilled now and at the moment the knife is held together with the pins, but not glued. I've just filed off all the epoxy at the moment and was contemplating trying to shape it with just a file, but this'll take some time.
BTW Canranger what is the recosos, the front of the scale? Plus why do you save cutting that bit till last?
BTW Canranger what is the recosos, the front of the scale? Plus why do you save cutting that bit till last?
Well that is a good question especially since I was rushing off to work when I typed up the reply and it should be spelled Ricasso not Recoso(I work much better on sleep).
Does that help??
As for cutting the bolster area last after I have the general profile of the handle outline I can better decide how the lines of the scales will blend in at the front.
I mark three general spots then plot the front profile of the scale I will try to illustrate my point bu touching up a picture.
A: is the futhest point I want the Scale to come ouot on the Ricasso
B: is where I decide the front of the scale should merge withthe spin of the knife
C: Is where I decide to merge the scale with the fron finger groove
Hope this clears it up a little
Does that help??
As for cutting the bolster area last after I have the general profile of the handle outline I can better decide how the lines of the scales will blend in at the front.
I mark three general spots then plot the front profile of the scale I will try to illustrate my point bu touching up a picture.
A: is the futhest point I want the Scale to come ouot on the Ricasso
B: is where I decide the front of the scale should merge withthe spin of the knife
C: Is where I decide to merge the scale with the fron finger groove
Hope this clears it up a little
not that my method is anything special but if I get a chance I will take pictures of me designing the front of a set of scales and post step by step.
Abe
Abe
I've managed to move my knife project on a little since last posting. I still have to shape the ricasso (front) of the knife, finish shaping the scales, trim down the pins and lanyard tube and glue the knife to the scales but the basic shape is in place.
Problems Ive came across is that the blade handles edge wasn't cut perfectly flat so where Ive been sanding and following the blades shape its sometimes gone a little lopsided, when you look at the knife side on.
Problems Ive came across is that the blade handles edge wasn't cut perfectly flat so where Ive been sanding and following the blades shape its sometimes gone a little lopsided, when you look at the knife side on.
Looks good those scale are smokin nice figure.
I haven't had a chance to handle a knife lately but I am heading into the shop this weekend to put handles on.
So I will take pictures
Abe
I haven't had a chance to handle a knife lately but I am heading into the shop this weekend to put handles on.
So I will take pictures
Abe
