Mess tins

[Tim Jones]

Hello all,

I am currently in the process of writing the start of my coursework project for IB DT and have hit a problem.
I want to design and make a new style of mess tin and have found that nobody I know really does much camping and as such I'd have to make any survey questions up. It'd be fantastic if some people could answer the questions below and save me a whole load of headache. The questions lack finesse, but I'm trying to confirm my own judgments having used both styles. I'm referring to the British army style tins when talking about "pan shaped" tins.

Thanks in advance,
Tim


1. How often do you engage in an activity that involves outdoor cooking?

2. What style of mess tin do you use (if any)

If kidney shaped then complete this form: If pan shaped then complete this form:
a. Do you find them difficult to eat out of? a. Do you find them difficult to boil water in?

b. Do you find them difficult to clean? b. Do you find it difficult to cook over open fires?

c. Do you have trouble using gas stoves? c. Do you have trouble pouring water?

d. Do you find them easy to boil water in? d. Do you find them easy to eat out of?

e. Do you like the utility of a pot hanger? e. Do you find them easy to clean?


3. Would you like to have more items incorporated into the mess tin to save space?

4. What would you pay for a new mess tin system?

5. If you were to choose 5 cooking utensils what would they be?

6. Do you have any other comments?

 

[Bishop]

Mess Tins/Kits and Cookware Systems are not strictly the same thing, though there can be some cross-over.
The primary role of a mess-kit is to carry food that has already been prepared in a communal kitchen with the ability to re-heat or actually cook food being secondary and sometimes absent entirely.
Meal preferences also heavily influenced design across the globe with European mess kits geared toward some kind of slop such as soup, stew, porridge, instant noodles etc, Japanese kits circa WWII though similar to German kits of the period had inserts that made better for cooking rice (this trend has continued and you can now get miniature pressure cookers) and oval pan style American kits were heavily biased toward fried meals. Now with nearly all military forces adopting pre-prepared ration packs to feed troops in the field the need for individual soldiers to carry some kind of feeding bowl or cutlery has become largely obsolete. So the much loved design of the 'Swedish' mess-kit (based largely on a German design from 1931) gave way to the Crusader cook-set which is essentially a tin mug just wide enough to jam in a foil food pouch.

 

[Tim Jones]

I'm aware of that. This project is more aimed at the civvy market and as such, I don't need to worry about what armies may or may not do. The idea is not to create something that will do for a squaddie in the field, but for a softer civilian trying to cook something at a more leisurely pace.

 

[Toddy]

Then why are you looking at military kit ?

For 'family' stuff just look at the large Trangia sets. For lightweight camping the smaller ones are excellent too.
Loads and loads of knock offs of those out there too.
They come with all whistles and bells…from windbreaks to boiler rings, frying pans to mini pressure cookers, and even heat wraps to keep pots warm.

M

 

[EddieP]

I'd love a cheap set of heat exchange pans, I see no reason why they don't exist, but I can't find any.

That's where I would go if I was you.

 

[Tim Jones]

I'd love a cheap set of heat exchange pans, I see no reason why they don't exist, but I can't find any.

That's where I would go if I was you.

Thanks for the advice.

Toddy - Because they're a good starting point. The point of what I'm doing is justifying a new product, even if it is a little wobbly. The problem with larger family pans is that that's what they're for; families. They're also priced accordingly.

 

[FGYT]

Used Mess tins for military stuff modified it too the small mess tin (stamped 1947) and bottom cut off large on for lid has a Tupperware sealed box that fitted it inside perfectly had brew powders Chilli salt etc it boiled water for Brews or boiled water and heated the Small tins you got in 24hr packs back then

Since i stopped playing soldiers (TA etc so yes playing) 25yrs ago I never used it again its in a box some where its not really much use for Cooking Food Even back then i would carry a small Steel Wok with a detachable handle still use the wok and use a 12cm Billy can for boiling or stews in stainless

and a cast iron Dutch oven if i can car camp as slow roast leg of lamb is much nicer than warm Rat pack meals

 

[Toddy]

The Trangia range, and it's knock offs, cover everything from single backpacker to family of six though. That's why I suggested it when you said 'civilian'.

Alpkit do some superb stuff too loads of Ti out there. From the classic Zebra to the Crusader, the field is very full.

Aluminium, cast iron, steel, titanium, non stick, copper bottomed….they're all there.
A new concept based on the mess kits though ? sounds doubtful, tbh.

M

 

[FGYT]

problem is the shape they are that shape to fit in a rectangular Pouch on the webbing belt, not to be easy to clean (especially burnt on Aluminium ) or Heat evenly from a small central Heat source.
they have a low fill height with a proportionally large surface area so heat dosnt go up thro the food just out the top


pretty sure ive never ever cooked food directly in mine Just heat transfer thro water

 

[Toddy]

I've made simple soup in a set, and a couple of fry ups rolleyes: took a brillo pad to scour them clean after that though not a good idea) Okay for stuff like quinoa or noodles, but damn all use for rice and not deep enough for pasta.
Scrambled eggs went grey, though by putting the 'lid' on I did manage the souffle kind. Bit of a beggar to clean afterwards.
Non stick might help, but the shape's too wrong for much cooking really.
The crusader is better because it's deeper, but I think the Swedish army set (the oval deep one) beats that too. That hits the other issue though; it's heavy.

For civvie stuff, I'd look for different examples than the OP, tbh.

M

 

[Tim Jones]

That bit was more about being able to get your hand in them.

I've been using an East German one, and I have to say, it's far better than the British ones. I did try using the frying pan the other day though, didn't go too well...
I haven't found the weight to be an issue seeing as mine is only 100g heavier than a British set.

 

[Macaroon]

I'd love a cheap set of heat exchange pans, I see no reason why they don't exist, but I can't find any.

That's where I would go if I was you.

Good comment, that; but without being rude, I think the OP is trying to re-invent the wheel to a large extent............See Toddy's posts above.

 

[Robson Valley]

Google 'tiffin' and scroll through the images. My kids gave me 3 doubles in s/s. 2 sizes.
I've cooked in them in my kitchen without a problem.

 

[Toddy]

Yep, and they even come family sized
The steel on mine is too thin to spread the heat evenly though
Indian ladies don't use them for cooking but for packing lunch into. Some are gently re-heated though. One lady told me she just pops it into the oven to do that. I have put water into the bottom one and loosely stacked the others above it and gently simmered it. That worked and I like idlis, made by steaming lentil batter that's been allowed to do a gentle sourdough type rising using fruit salts, in one too.

Tim ? have you had a search on the site for Hobo Stoves ?

M

 

[Robson Valley]

What a giggle! If I plan it right, I could bake bread in mine, freeze what I don't eat. Fridays are summer market days here (May start?), I sell grape vines which I start from cuttings. Tiffin-sized bread would be a nice addition to my other lunch things.

 

[Tim Jones]

Tim ? have you had a search on the site for Hobo Stoves ?

M

No, I'll have a look though

 

[Bishop]

Good comment, that; but without being rude, I think the OP is trying to re-invent the wheel to a large extent............See Toddy's posts above.

Oh I don't know, pneumatic tyres after all were a pretty nifty improvement to a well established technology

Take Zebra billy-cans for instance, relatively light, tough stainless steel construction, versatile, comes in range of sizes, adored by some desired by many. Yet there are pages both here on this website and across the internet devoted to modifying them, fitting handles, lifting rings, new bale arms and replacing the awful plastic lid clips etc

 

[Macaroon]

Oh I don't know, pneumatic tyres after all were a pretty nifty improvement to a well established technology

Take Zebra billy-cans for instance, relatively light, tough stainless steel construction, versatile, comes in range of sizes, adored by some desired by many. Yet there are pages both here on this website and across the internet devoted to modifying them, fitting handles, lifting rings, new bale arms and replacing the awful plastic lid clips etc

Yup, I take your point, and I certainly wasn't intending to be disparaging about Tim's intentions; it just strikes me that really all that's left to do with the cookware thing is fine tuning, personal fettling to suit preferences,
so to speak. I just find it hard to imagine any kind of major leap forward without some kind of material science advance that'd be affordable, but I wish you well in your endeavours, Tim

 

[Toddy]

It was the mess tins bit that made me wonder though.
Mess tins (as Bishop rightly said) aren't really designed for 'cooking' per se, but more for individual portioning and such like.
Not saying they can't do it, we all know they can, just not terribly well, iimmc.

With all that in mind….what would be your ideal 'musketeer' of a cooking/eating from 'tin' ?
I don't think it exists, tbh. Just too many variables.

If it comes off the heat, it's too hot to hold and eat from, or it cools down too blooming quickly 'cos the metal conducts. If we have a clad base to spread the heat, then it adds bulk and weight, pear shaped so that it pours is a pain in the neck to fit anything else to. Light my fire cookset comes to mind. I like it but it's a right royal footer to pack.
Kidney shaped were meant to fit around the 'hip comfortable' shaped bottles. Good to hold though, easy to re-heat with radiant heat agin a fire. Pour tidily too. The few Makers who make fitted lids are a blessing the plastic ones are dire

Rattling bits and pieces of the other metal sets are an irritation to carry, or you've to mind how to pack them with stuff to stop it.

Silicon is only fine to around 230degC, and it's wobbly.
Ceramic breaks, iron weighs more than I want to lug around.
Good non stick is a boon, but you can only safely use well shaped wood or the silicon tools in it…or the Lexan sporks I supposed

Orikasu ? fun, easy cleaned, only safe to boiling water temperature though.

Interesting to see what Tim comes up with

M

 

[wicca]

I'm in the wood 4 or 5 nights a month all year round. I very rarely use anything else other than mess tins. Just occasionally I use a small aluminium coffee pot type thing instead of the kettle shown in the other photo.
As regards your questions..Pouring water from a mess tin, no problem, the corner acts as a spout. Easy to eat from ( I open boil in the bag rations and dump them in the tin to cook them) Cleaning the mess tin is easy I use a short stick and cut a chisel end on it to use as a scraper. Put hot water in the tin, swish it around and any burnt food scrapes off easily..final clean with a green sink pad scratchy thing.

They fit the side pockets of my Bergan and I stow various small items in them KFS etc: wrapped in a J cloth so that I don't sound like a fire alarm moving through the wood... I've made an aluminium lid for the smaller tin but that's just to keep wood ash or hungry suicidal beasties out if I have to stop eating and put the mess tin down for some reason, I don't cook with the lid on, never found the need to .

Maybe I need dragging into the 21st Century, I use my tins a lot but I can't think of any improvement that could be made to my mess tins which would delight and astound me...