Medicine shortages

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I really feel for you Woodygirl, not a pleasant situation to be in. Do be really careful with the pill splitting though and don't do it on dosage-critical medications as the cutting accuracy is almost certainly not going to be good enough. For your current uses it is probably fine though.


Ps, I've just learned today, it's now illegal to stockpile 75mg aspirin!!!!
The world gets madder by the day!
Can you link to this? I don't really understand what you mean. And so you're aware, I don't think you as an individual are at risk here as I cannot see it counting as stockpiling (it would likely need to be at an industrial scale). But even so, I've not heard anything about it - can you send over the report/article?
 
I really feel for you Woodygirl, not a pleasant situation to be in. Do be really careful with the pill splitting though and don't do it on dosage-critical medications as the cutting accuracy is almost certainly not going to be good enough. For your current uses it is probably fine though.



Can you link to this? I don't really understand what you mean. And so you're aware, I don't think you as an individual are at risk here as I cannot see it counting as stockpiling (it would likely need to be at an industrial scale). But even so, I've not heard anything about it - can you send over the report/article?
Not a big deal yet, I could just get a script every 28 days no problem, but its a faff, and for years I've just bought my own in 100 tablet packs and jogged along merrily without costing the NHS a penny.
Now I have to play this game, although I get free scrips it now costs the NHS £9.50 every 28 days..
Crazy! But then , very little makes sense nowadays
I can't remember where I heard about stockpiling now, I must have googled it at some point in the last two weeks on my phone, so I guess if this tech idiot can find it, I'm sure anyone else can. Sorry i can't be more precise.
 
Do be really careful with the pill splitting though and don't do it on dosage-critical medications as the cutting accuracy is almost certainly not going to be good enough

I’m not sure about this. Yes, there may be small discrepancies day to day but over a four day period the dose will be totally accurate.

If you are talking more generally than 300mg aspirin, by the time you’ve taken all the bits of a split pill you’ve got an accurate average dose.

Blood thinners like warfarin take 3 to 7 days to reach a desired INR level. It drops slightly quicker but I don’t worry too much if I’ve left my warfarin behind for a couple of nights. (Not recommending the practice, just reporting my own attitude!!!) They are very convenient and manageable if you can tolerate rat poison.

I don’t know about asprin. A quick google says it stays with you for a similar time.

The expensive American blood thinners are so fast in and out that you have to carry them with you and take a dose every twelve hours.

Edited to add:
I understand how alien this is to you WG andI’ve sympathise. My sister can’t handle voicemail messages or texts.
But if you can use the NHS app a repeat prescription takes less than a minute to organise. I usually do it at about 2am.
I’m sure you know that you can receive your meds by post.
 
Not a big deal yet, I could just get a script every 28 days no problem, but its a faff, and for years I've just bought my own in 100 tablet packs and jogged along merrily without costing the NHS a penny.
Now I have to play this game, although I get free scrips it now costs the NHS £9.50 every 28 days..
Crazy! But then , very little makes sense nowadays
I can't remember where I heard about stockpiling now, I must have googled it at some point in the last two weeks on my phone, so I guess if this tech idiot can find it, I'm sure anyone else can. Sorry i can't be more precise.
I see. So you're aware, the stockpiling prohibition is to actually ease supply. If it's not in place, some companies intentionally withhold supply to create (further) scarcity and (further) drive the price up. It is a very good thing to prevent. You as an individual are not capable of stockpiling in a manner that contravenes this ban as you are not a supplier.
 
I’m not sure about this. Yes, there may be small discrepancies day to day but over a four day period the dose will be totally accurate.

If you are talking more generally than 300mg aspirin, by the time you’ve taken all the bits of a split pill you’ve got an accurate average dose.

Blood thinners like warfarin take 3 to 7 days to reach a desired INR level. It drops slightly quicker but I don’t worry too much if I’ve left my warfarin behind for a couple of nights. (Not recommending the practice, just reporting my own attitude!!!) They are very convenient and manageable if you can tolerate rat poison.

I don’t know about asprin. A quick google says it stays with you for a similar time.

The expensive American blood thinners are so fast in and out that you have to carry them with you and take a dose every twelve hours.

Edited to add:
I understand how alien this is to you WG andI’ve sympathise. My sister can’t handle voicemail messages or texts.
But if you can use the NHS app a repeat prescription takes less than a minute to organise. I usually do it at about 2am.
I’m sure you know that you can receive your meds by post.
I don't use the modern ways. I don't do anything online except this forum, Google for info and watch bushcraft and crafting yt.. I just don't want to be tied to my phone. Even the utilities and h/a only have my landline. If they can't be bothered to answer the phone,and talk face to face, I'm blowed if I'm going to bother.
I'm tired of being told "go online" to everything. The surgery is only about 10 doors away, so I call in. Not a problem. If I needed a car or bus to get to a doctor I can see the point of it. Not realy nessasary for me.
The new usa drug they are trying to push as a substitute....you wait it will become the norm soon, it's a soft approach atm. Will cost more, and be less effective. We also will have no idea whats in it, mostly synthetic stuff I'll hazard a guess, and more profit for the USA. I'm not daft! I get it.
Oh BTW cynical has become my middle name of late....it's the heat! ;)
 
I’m not sure about this. Yes, there may be small discrepancies day to day but over a four day period the dose will be totally accurate.

If you are talking more generally than 300mg aspirin, by the time you’ve taken all the bits of a split pill you’ve got an accurate average dose.

Blood thinners like warfarin take 3 to 7 days to reach a desired INR level. It drops slightly quicker but I don’t worry too much if I’ve left my warfarin behind for a couple of nights. (Not recommending the practice, just reporting my own attitude!!!) They are very convenient and manageable if you can tolerate rat poison.

I don’t know about asprin. A quick google says it stays with you for a similar time.

The expensive American blood thinners are so fast in and out that you have to carry them with you and take a dose every twelve hours.

Edited to add:
I understand how alien this is to you WG andI’ve sympathise. My sister can’t handle voicemail messages or texts.
But if you can use the NHS app a repeat prescription takes less than a minute to organise. I usually do it at about 2am.
I’m sure you know that you can receive your meds by post.
I made it clear I was referring to dosage critical medications in my very first sentence you quoted.
 
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WG Not at all:
Cynical = pragmatic realism of potential negative outcomes = (hopefully) the 5 P's!

Thankfully a cooler morning today, now down below 30+ C upstairs, and trying to do some work.
 
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Cynical = pragmatic realism of potential negative outcomes = (hopefully) the 5 P's!
Is cynicism always pessimistic?

I am a philosophical cynic. It’s been highly constructive to my thinking. (Check some of my posts - and I’ve been very restrained :lmao: )

I’m more cynical about conspiracy theories than about almost anything else.
I just don’t think that governments could be that organised or that secretive. If there were a conspiracy to deprive us of medicine, one of the many oppositions, political and commercial, would be screaming it from the headlines.

How could groups as inept as the sad line of post WW2 British administrations be so thorough in securing their conspiracies?
(Or are the Illuminati or the lizards doing it)

Yeah. I’m a happy cynic!
 
Short answer is no, cynicism has a challenge and rebuttal aspect, which is invariably negative but not always. "It's raining now but you see, .."
I agree it can also be a philosophical lead in, if a person is of that ilk, many are not.

Conspiracy theories are a whole different area, not necessarily only that of cynics. There is a hazy line between that, and trying to understand another's intentions and means of achieving it. Which you may agree or disagree with.

Can governments, including the UK administration (civil, legal, military etc.) be that organised, thorough and secure - oh yes, very much so.
Some of these become public many years later, others don't. What can vary is who is driving it, and their control over it vs the time required to achieve it.
 
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I'm not sure what American blood thinner you guys are referring to but warfarin is like two or three generations back in technology. There is actually quite good reasons to look at the more sophisticated blood thinners. As we age we are prone to internal bleeding from the esophagus, stomach, intestines into the rectum. Often, this bleeding is not noticeable as the body just digests it's own blood. Aspirin is notorious for actually causing bleeding ulcers that then become worse due to daily aspirin administration.

The newer generations of blood thinners do have a much shorter half life, which is what you want. Consider just regular accidents like being in a car crash, falling down stairs, getting a bad cut, etc. These sort of things happen all the time. You can bleed out very quickly as the residue of the old style blood thinners remain in your system.

I was put on eliquis (apixaban) in 2017. I was taking a nuclear stress test that was abruptly stopped. The doctor was ushered into the room, after some whispered discussion with staff he said that I had atrial fibrillation and that I needed to go to the hospital or take these little pink pills. I have been on eliquis since February 2017 with absolutely no negative side effects. The atrial fibrillation has been persistent, inspite of several surgical interventions. I would have died of the atrial fibrillation a decade ago if I was not taking eliquis. I had ritually taken aspirin since the early 1980s. When the afib was found they also found several blood clots, caused by the afib, that the aspirin did not touch. As it turns out a year after being diagnosed with afib I was diagnosed with a much more substantial/dangerous issue that I lived to be diagnosed because I was already on elequis. I belive that the generic version of eliquis is called apixaban and is available via the UK NHS.
 
I have been fighting NOT to take Apixaban since before Covid.

I’m not saying that my stance is right for anyone else - it’s very right for me.

I don’t want to rely on anything that only has one supply line, is patented to a single company and is sourced where that supply is political. No way!

Warfarin works. It has worked since 2008 when I was fitted with a tin heart. I too have atrial fibrillation and am about to have an upgraded pacemaker.

I’ve had a stable INR for years.

I’ve cut myself many times and I clot nearly normally. There simply isn’t a problem.

Warfarin is cheap, available from many countries and for me, very easy to manage.

I get Warfarin free on the National Health Service but if necessary I could easily afford to buy it privately. Apixaban is 30 times more expensive per mg (and rising if Supplier policy prevails.)
There is a view in North America that its people should pay less for medicines at the expense of importing nations.

Why on Earth would I change something that works so well and costs the UK taxpayer so little?

BTW - there is an easy antidote for a warfarin overdose that isn’t a blood exchange or $58,000 for an Apixaban reversal.

Edited to add:
Warfarin costs $0.1 / mg
Apixaban costs $3 / mg

My daily dose costs 30c
If I changed to Apixaban I would be asking the British tax payer for $30.00 per day!
 
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Folk in the UK are generally a bit wary of US pharma and doctors, having been warned a lot about the US medical costs & practices. Pattree's objections are all valid this side of the pond, but I'm pleased that it has been working well for you.

Whilst it is apparently correct that aspirin can cause ulcers to bleed, the advice by NICE is to stabilise any bleeding then continue a low dose aspirin regime. The benefits outweigh the negatives. It is NICE's job to make that determination, and until now has served us well.
Now, politicians have meddled in something they do not understand, and almost certainly managed to harm some folk by doing so, for no real net benefit.

Instead of Warfarin my grandfathers doctor recommended he continue with his little measured tipple of whisky every day!.
 
"...There is a view in North America that its people should pay less for medicines at the expense of importing nations..."

This is, in fact, a fiction and it must be stated as untrue. You have a right to your opinion but you don't have a right to others buying into this insane line of thought. The United States is a diverse place, with many differing points of view. Arguing that American political leaders should NOT insist on lowering medication costs for Americans is rich. Perhaps, UK political leaders should actually advocate for the British people and stop falsely blaming the Americans for their own abysmal failures.

As for warfarin, I do wish you luck with this medication. If it works for you then you should stick with it. The fact that you do not bleed freely while on a blood thinner is a bad sign, but I guess that you know what you're doing.

You said that warfarin is free. I would argue that free is a political discussion that is being incorrectly used here. You paid, over your entire lifetime, into the National Health Service. There is a reasonable expectation that, now their services are required, that you obtain the best treatment that exists. Getting old school medications or no medications at all from the service that you paid for is disgraceful.

I pay for my medical insurance. I upped the quality of service so, I pay more than others. Medical insurance is a standard benefit offered by employers. Most offer standard care for no cost to the employee as the employer wraps the cost into the benefit package. This is not different than your NHS. You paid for NHS, perhaps more than I paid for my medical insurance. I didn't start upping my medical insurance until a few years ago, so my entire life it has been just a employer supplied benefit.

When I started on Elequis I actually asked about warfarin as my father used it in the 1980s. The cardiologist explained the benefits and downsides of the old medications vs the newer generations of medications. I made the decision to use eliquis, not the physician. In the end, the fee that I pay for a 90 day supply of eliquis is $15. After I outlay a certain amount ($2000) all of my medical care is cost free to myself for the reminder of the year. I spent five days in the best hospital in Florida, in June, to have a new cardiorythm drug started. I had a private room, with shower, AC, a nice view of palm trees, parrots in the palms, cable TV, internet, three meals a day chosen by myself off a menu and this cost me zero out of my pocket as I maxed out my out of pocket expense in April. As much as one can enjoy a hospital, I enjoyed that experience. The nurses were wonderful. I watched the NBA finals and the first World Cup game, in my room with doctors and nurses. We had a grand time. Here's the best part, since I fulfilled my out of pocket expense in April, all of my medical care, pills, shots, visits, etc are cost free for me until January 1, 2027. So, that expensive eliquis costs me nothing until then. When I retire I will be on Medicare, which is quite similar to NHS except that I go to my private doctor's, hospitals etc. Medicare is a retirement benefit that, I paid for, my entire working life.

I'm half reading this thread because I am concerned to see others in bad situations and would like to help, if I can. I'm half reading this thread to understand how normal folks navigate the NHS for health care. The US has excellent health care for those who have jobs. Don't work, won't work, here illegally, well your health care will be enough and that's it. No comment on UK but in the US President Biden entered 20+ million illegal or spurious entrys of people into the US on top of the 20+ million earlier illegal aliens that were here. These people could not legally work so they had no health care. They were given places to stay and credit cards to buy food. The results were massive public debts to support these people, a bogged down health system, young people could not buy or rent a place as there was none to be found. Literally, out of 350 million people in the US 40-50 were illegally here and on the take. These same folks felt no need to assimilate to American culture as their needs were being taking care of by the US government. I'm not saying that UK has a similar problem.....
 
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I had no intention of launching a political criticism. I was criticising uk clinicians who are trying to force me to take a medicine that is clinically unnecessary, unacceptably costly and socially abhorrent to me. Significantly regarding the OP - the supply chain is out of National control and risks cut off.

I have not knowingly written anything that is untrue or undocumented.

I did state that I believe THEIR (the clinicians) decisions are politically, rather than medically motivated.

I repeat, this is a report of my stance and in no way a recommendation.

@FIU I am pleased that you are being taken of so well.


Mods - please feel free to delete as much of my contribution to this thread as you feel appropriate.
 
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The problem with this is that on both sides of the pond we are reliant on what the media tell us, and what spin they put on it. In the UK it is "fashionable" to criticise the US system and supposed shortcomings, and vice versa. In both cases the algorithms feed off negatively and big headlines, and it is always possible to find some example to justify any viewpoint.
Whilst I can support FIU's initial para statement there are following bits that I question.

You did not choose Elequis, you were sold it, there are at least 5 different alternatives. One of which is Warfarin, a dark ages solution sure, which survives because it still works. With the correct dosage you should not bleed freely, but normally, as most do. It is not free, unless you qualify under the UK health care rules.
If your employment ends, does your insurance also end, and will you be able to obtain new equal terms privately or from a minimum wage employer? The feedback from the murder of a health care company exec indicates a lot of dissatisfaction. The headlines here suggest there is a drive to reduce the scope and amount of Medicare available for everyone, not just immigrants. We also have an immigration problem, also affected by failure to assimilate successfully.




Employment is not always a matter of choice. There are many folk everywhere who desperately want, but are unable to find work, or get laid off. Even in the UK there are those unable to obtain or afford adequate medical care (e.g. dentistry, optical, and others) and I'm sure that applies in the US also.
There is also a lot of very good medical care privately in the UK and the US, and I know personally folk who have benefited from it.
But the cost of private medical care is expensive, and some of that is driven by avarice and greed, and creates resentment. Some of the issues within the NHS are driven by the same factors and are tearing it apart. The insurance industry and private medical industries would love for that to happen.

There is a tendency for clinicians to promote more expensive drugs and treatment, partly to satisfy their private employers/senior management and for personal reward/freebies. This occurs in the UK as well as the US. I know this, because I used to have personal friends who were employed to promote (and effectively bribe) these to the clinicians by the medical industry. They were paid purely on results and did very well out of it. No different in the veterinary industry.
 
This is, in fact, a fiction and it must be stated as untrue. You have a right to your opinion but you don't have a right to others buying into this insane line of thought. The United States is a diverse place, with many differing points of view. Arguing that American political leaders should NOT insist on lowering medication costs for Americans is rich. Perhaps, UK political leaders should actually advocate for the British people and stop falsely blaming the Americans for their own abysmal failures.

As for warfarin, I do wish you luck with this medication. If it works for you then you should stick with it. The fact that you do not bleed freely while on a blood thinner is a bad sign, but I guess that you know what you're doing.

You said that warfarin is free. I would argue that free is a political discussion that is being incorrectly used here. You paid, over your entire lifetime, into the National Health Service. There is a reasonable expectation that, now their services are required, that you obtain the best treatment that exists. Getting old school medications or no medications at all from the service that you paid for is disgraceful.

I pay for my medical insurance. I upped the quality of service so, I pay more than others. Medical insurance is a standard benefit offered by employers. Most offer standard care for no cost to the employee as the employer wraps the cost into the benefit package. This is not different than your NHS. You paid for NHS, perhaps more than I paid for my medical insurance. I didn't start upping my medical insurance until a few years ago, so my entire life it has been just a employer supplied benefit.

When I started on Elequis I actually asked about warfarin as my father used it in the 1980s. The cardiologist explained the benefits and downsides of the old medications vs the newer generations of medications. I made the decision to use eliquis, not the physician. In the end, the fee that I pay for a 90 day supply of eliquis is $15. After I outlay a certain amount ($2000) all of my medical care is cost free to myself for the reminder of the year. I spent five days in the best hospital in Florida, in June, to have a new cardiorythm drug started. I had a private room, with shower, AC, a nice view of palm trees, parrots in the palms, cable TV, internet, three meals a day chosen by myself off a menu and this cost me zero out of my pocket as I maxed out my out of pocket expense in April. As much as one can enjoy a hospital, I enjoyed that experience. The nurses were wonderful. I watched the NBA finals and the first World Cup game, in my room with doctors and nurses. We had a grand time. Here's the best part, since I fulfilled my out of pocket expense in April, all of my medical care, pills, shots, visits, etc are cost free for me until January 1, 2027. So, that expensive eliquis costs me nothing until then. When I retire I will be on Medicare, which is quite similar to NHS except that I go to my private doctor's, hospitals etc. Medicare is a retirement benefit that, I paid for, my entire working life.

I'm half reading this thread because I am concerned to see others in bad situations and would like to help, if I can. I'm half reading this thread to understand how normal folks navigate the NHS for health care. The US has excellent health care for those who have jobs. Don't work, won't work, here illegally, well your health care will be enough and that's it. No comment on UK but in the US President Biden entered 20+ million illegal or spurious entrys of people into the US on top of the 20+ million earlier illegal aliens that were here. These people could not legally work so they had no health care. They were given places to stay and credit cards to buy food. The results were massive public debts to support these people, a bogged down health system, young people could not buy or rent a place as there was none to be found. Literally, out of 350 million people in the US 40-50 were illegally here and on the take. These same folks felt no need to assimilate to American culture as their needs were being taking care of by the US government. I'm not saying that UK has a similar problem.....
What if you are like me and are perfectly capable of working but cannot because of health reasons employers wont take you on?
 

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