material for duluth pack?

[happy camper]

hi
there's been a few threads about duluth stuff recently and it's reminded me how much i love their stuff, i really fancy having a go at making a large canvas canoe pack and wonder if anyone can recommend any suppliers for a suitable heavy duty canvas, possibly waxed and in nice, natural colours ? (duluth use 15oz and 18 oz canvas on their even heavier duty models)
It's a foray into the unknown for me so if anyone has any advice, experience or pearls of wisdom they want to share i'd be grateful!
cheers

 

[Seagull]

Wotcher H.C.

Try to raise Des Pawson (Footrope Knots) on the www.

I know he used to do these:
RN No.1. 28 oz flax canvas, in 24 ins width.
aaaand,
21 oz. "loom state" flax canvas, in 36 ins width.

But check Toddys note, on the meaning of "loom state", cos it may be just a bit too rough for your purposes.

No connection, other than buying my own stuff from him. He, s a good guy.

Ceeg

 

[pierre girard]

I've made the Duluth packs in 15 oz and 18 oz canvas. 15 oz is probably plenty enough thick. There was another thread on this subject recently with a UK source for 15 oz and 18 oz canvas (I believe it was a thread on getting canvas for tents). Canvas this thick is very hard to come by in the US. I've made some packs out of discarded canvas from US Mail hampers - which is 18 oz.

PG

 

[happy camper]

cheers for the help
i think the stuff you mention might be a little too heavy Seagull, ideally i'm looking for something between 15 and 18 oz in a nice green or a tan or khaki.
Duluth and Frost River both do packs in a waxed canvas which sounds intersting too, but i haven't managed to turn anything up that is heavy and waxed, might have to look into waxing it myself i suppose.
There seems to be plenty of white or undyed canvas in the weights i'm looking for online but stuff in the colours i'm after seems harder to find. Im suprised it's hard to come by in the states though Pierre, although i guess that would account for the relatively high cost of the duluth packs. I like the idea of recycling stuff aswell so army surplus might be the way for me to go, there's various kit bags etc. that i could probably use, i've also got samples on the way from a couple of places so hopefully one of them will do.

 

[pierre girard]

cheers for the help
i think the stuff you mention might be a little too heavy Seagull, ideally i'm looking for something between 15 and 18 oz in a nice green or a tan or khaki.
Duluth and Frost River both do packs in a waxed canvas which sounds intersting too, but i haven't managed to turn anything up that is heavy and waxed, might have to look into waxing it myself i suppose.
There seems to be plenty of white or undyed canvas in the weights i'm looking for online but stuff in the colours i'm after seems harder to find. Im suprised it's hard to come by in the states though Pierre, although i guess that would account for the relatively high cost of the duluth packs. I like the idea of recycling stuff aswell so army surplus might be the way for me to go, there's various kit bags etc. that i could probably use, i've also got samples on the way from a couple of places so hopefully one of them will do.

I would consider staying away from the waxed canvas - anything that makes the fiber stiff has a tendency to weaken it. I use dry bags inside the pack to keep my bedding and clothing dry - and for anything else that needs to stay dry. An untreated canvas pack dries much quicker than treated canvas or nylon, and will last for generations. I have two Duluth packs I've inherited from my grandfather, one of which may have originally belonged to his father. They are still in use.

PG

 

[Toddy]

Can somebody post a link to a good clear illustration of one of these packs?
Am I right in saying they're just good stout cloth folded and tied to create a carryable load that won't get in the way when bedded down in a canoe or a dory? If so, then why not use something like wax jacket fabric? It's relatively cheap, folds well, tough and sheds the rain. It also comes in excellent colours for the job.
It'd be an awful lot easier to get too than new coloured canvas.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[pierre girard]

Can somebody post a link to a good clear illustration of one of these packs?
Am I right in saying they're just good stout cloth folded and tied to create a carryable load that won't get in the way when bedded down in a canoe or a dory? If so, then why not use something like wax jacket fabric? It's relatively cheap, folds well, tough and sheds the rain. It also comes in excellent colours for the job.
It'd be an awful lot easier to get too than new coloured canvas.

Cheers,
Toddy

Here are two sites:

http://www.duluthpack.com/products.aspx?SubCat=1&CategoryID=d1

http://www.frostriver.com/canoe_packs/canoe_packs_menu.html

If by jacket fabric, you mean what I've seen some Brits wearing (tin cloth) - I don't believe it is a heavy enough cloth for a pack, probably only about 6 or 8 oz.

PG

 

[Toddy]

Thanks PG
I suspect that the ones I was thinking about are an earlier version of this. These are just called *packs* and they are literally made from squares or rectangles of cloth with belts and buckles suitablly positioned to tie the pack together over gear or trade items to create a carryable pack, either for boat, pony or man to transport. They open up to give a clean/dry surface to display goods and wares. The carrying strap, the belt, or your Tump line, was usually made of rope or rushes.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[pierre girard]

Thanks PG
I suspect that the ones I was thinking about are an earlier version of this. These are just called *packs* and they are literally made from squares or rectangles of cloth with belts and buckles suitablly positioned to tie the pack together over gear or trade items to create a carryable pack, either for boat, pony or man to transport. They open up to give a clean/dry surface to display goods and wares. The carrying strap, the belt, or your Tump line, was usually made of rope or rushes.

Cheers,
Toddy

Not familiar with anything like that. The "Duluth" pack, in its simplest form is a rectangle of canvas, with shoulder straps and tump, sewn on the sides, to create an envelope pack. It has been the standard canoe pack in our area for at least 125 years, probably much longer (Camille Poirer took out a patent on this style of pack in 1882).

During the fur trade era, trade goods were packed in canvas, sewn up with thick cord, in 90 pound bundles known as a "piece." These were carried with a 16 to 18 foot tumpline, which was attached to the piece (usually two pieces per person) with a series of knots and toggles. Some tumps were woven of fiber, most surviving tumps of that era are a heavy harness leather.

You'd think 180 pounds way too much to carry, but even when I was young, I remember my father, on shorter portages, carrying three #3 Duluth packs and a canoe when portaging. He'd prop the bow of the canoe up in the crotch of a tree and put two Duluth packs on his back and one on front, then get under the canoe and carry it off. Our only tent, back then, weighed 125 pounds and was in one of the packs. The canoe was an Oldtown spruce and canvas and was very heavy as well. My father is only 5'6" and usually weighs about 165 pounds. I'm not sure how he managed it, but then he spent a lifetime carrying more than he should have.

PG

 

[Toddy]

It's amazing what humans can shift when they've a mind to it. I watched two wee men, not one bigger than 5'4" shift a three ton safe right across a room and out a doorway and onto a trolley. They knew just how to lean, turn, kedge and generally keep it moving in the right direction to do exactly what they wanted it to do. If they'd gotten it wrong it would have crippled or killed them.
I'd love to set guys like that loose on some of those experimental archaeology programmes where they're trying to re-build the pyramids or stonehenge
My toddler son, all of 14 months old, picked up and threw an old 16lb brass weight. He didn't know not to, he just wanted to because he'd seen his uncle throwing it down the garden earlier. (Scottish game ) The weight weighed over half of what Jamie did and he still hefted it four feet Gave my dad a fright, and my brother got yelled at for leaving it where the bairn could get to it. His reply, "He's a Baby! he's *supposed* to be flinging rattles!, no' stone weights....what the h3ll are you feeding him?" was promptly answered by aforementioned infant demanding more porage He's still as strong as an ox even if he is shy of 5'9".
I think it's balance, and a built in ability to use ourselves as the best tools that make it possible. Your father obviously had it. However, it seems that in our modern world we're not learning how any more and we rely on machines more and more instead of skill. Probably gentler on ourselves over time, but we lose a lot by it too.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Squidders]

This lot sells cotton canvas: http://www.traditionalmaterials.co.uk/html/ropestwinethread.php

- Joe

 

[happy camper]

I would consider staying away from the waxed canvas - anything that makes the fiber stiff has a tendency to weaken it. I use dry bags inside the pack to keep my bedding and clothing dry - and for anything else that needs to stay dry. An untreated canvas pack dries much quicker than treated canvas or nylon, and will last for generations. I have two Duluth packs I've inherited from my grandfather, one of which may have originally belonged to his father. They are still in use.

PG

Thanks for your advice PG , that makes sense, i would be using dry bags on anything i needed to stay dry even if the pack was waxed, so logically i shouldn't bother with the waxed cloth anyway, especially given the issues with durability and drying that you mention.
Hi Toddy , i was thinking along the same lines as far as the waxed jacket cloth but i haven't managed to find anything suitable, do you have a link to any? I'd be interested in where to get it for future reference, even if it's not suitable for this project (a link to your baby-food supplier would be good too if you have one )
Cheers for the link aswell Squidders, there's some interesting stuff on there, i'm going to need leather and copper rivets etc. so they look like they might be handy for a few things.

 

[pierre girard]

This lot sells cotton canvas: http://www.traditionalmaterials.co.uk/html/ropestwinethread.php

- Joe

Hmmm.... Yards to meters and pounds to dollars. I don't think the price is too out of line for the 15 oz.

PG