Man-made vs natural cordage?

[Minotaur]

Posted a reply in the survival tin discussion and it raised some questions for you all.
Part of this reply was the cost vs strength and the struggle to see tasks that I cannot perform with garden twine.
I am going natural for most of my cordage unless for some (Often permanent) reason eg pre-set paracord tarp ridge line. I must admit that this is becoming a bushcraft vs urban divide. Duct tape and paracord are losing their place in my hiking/bushcraft set ups.

What cord/rope/string/tape do you carry?
What jobs do you require it for?

 

[Le Loup]

Posted a reply in the survival tin discussion and it raised some questions for you all.
Part of this reply was the cost vs strength and the struggle to see tasks that I cannot perform with garden twine.
I am going natural for most of my cordage unless for some (Often permanent) reason eg pre-set paracord tarp ridge line. I must admit that this is becoming a bushcraft vs urban divide. Duct tape and paracord are losing their place in my hiking/bushcraft set ups.

What cord/rope/string/tape do you carry?
What jobs do you require it for?

Keith.

 

[John Fenna]

For short term use or where the gear comes home for storage than natural is my choice. For stuff that stays out in all weathers then synthetic is the one. For a matter of "looks" than my synthetic is "Polyhemp" - basically "builders blue" but in beige ... it looks natural but performs like a synthetic. If I am going historical/purist I make my own cordage from plants

 

[The Lord Poncho]

I seem to recall from my dalliance with the Navy that the teaching was that natural cordage (albeit used in the context of rope in that instance) had benefits which were cited to be that a) it was grippy, b) it often 'creaked' before it snapped - giving you warning and c) it tightened up rather than loosened when wet. I must admit to using synthetic cordage 90% of the time myself though!

 

[TLM]

my dalliance with the Navy that

As far as I know most natural fibers do those mentioned but only in Navy sizes.

 

[Minotaur]

For short term use or where the gear comes home for storage than natural is my choice. For stuff that stays out in all weathers then synthetic is the one. For a matter of "looks" than my synthetic is "Polyhemp" - basically "builders blue" but in beige ... it looks natural but performs like a synthetic. If I am going historical/purist I make my own cordage from plants

If this is the Poly Hemp(from Jimmy Green Marine) it rocks.

 

[Toddy]

If you're intent on using natural fibres, instead of using generic garden twine, see if you can get hold of decent hemp or flax cord.
It's a whole other ballgame and it will easily ply up into a much thicker rope too.

Something like this....

Upholstery Twine

Used in traditional upholstery for all kinds of stitching, our Upholstery Twines are ideal for all your stitching and upholstery requirements. Our Flax Upholstery Twines have specifically been designed with a high break load, using 100% natural and biodegradable fibres.

henrywinning.co.uk

 

[TLM]

Something like this....

Interesting, do you know if that is treated with something? Slightly looks like it but does not mention on the site.

 

[Minotaur]

Upholstery Twine

Used in traditional upholstery for all kinds of stitching, our Upholstery Twines are ideal for all your stitching and upholstery requirements. Our Flax Upholstery Twines have specifically been designed with a high break load, using 100% natural and biodegradable fibres.

henrywinning.co.uk

Love that shop will have to look into that. The price is not to bad for a quality upgrade.

If you're intent on using natural fibres, instead of using generic garden twine, see if you can get hold of decent hemp or flax cord.
It's a whole other ballgame and it will easily ply up into a much thicker rope too.

If you carry natural fibers it gives you tinder as well and it also a renewable resource.

 

[Toddy]

I like natural fibres. I make a lot of cordage, sometimes just because I can
It also absorbs stuff like pine tar that you can also make yourself. Kind of preserves and waterproofs it too.

When it's life is done though, it just rots back down into the Earth. Maybe that's the best bit of it all

M

 

[Toddy]

Interesting, do you know if that is treated with something? Slightly looks like it but does not mention on the site.

I doubt it, but I'm sure that Winnings would be happy to advise.

Good hemp and good flax are make from phloem fibres. Those are the long water carrying ones up the stem of the plant. They are naturally smooth, unlike hair which is scaly. They're not as wispy as cotton, or bog cotton or kapok either, so when they're spun (best done damp) the finished thread often does not need burnt off.

Natural cordage like this is easily run through the edge of a block of beeswax and doesn't snag or shed much. It's good stuff.

Mattress cord is probably the most useful one of those thinner hemp/flax cordages, but if you can get hold of real Manilla Hemp, not the fake stuff, but genuine, then it's not only grippy in use but it won't tear your hands even when they're sodden wet and soft with working in water.
Why sailors liked it so very much.

M

 

[Broch]

Posted a reply in the survival tin discussion and it raised some questions for you all.
Part of this reply was the cost vs strength and the struggle to see tasks that I cannot perform with garden twine.
I am going natural for most of my cordage unless for some (Often permanent) reason eg pre-set paracord tarp ridge line. I must admit that this is becoming a bushcraft vs urban divide. Duct tape and paracord are losing their place in my hiking/bushcraft set ups.

What cord/rope/string/tape do you carry?
What jobs do you require it for?

I'm with you on this. Apart from anything else paracord is dreadful for making tight lashings. It has its uses but I don't like the fact it will stay on the woodland floor for decades; I really do detest going into woodland and finding bits of paracord all over the place.

I've made cordage for a long time but it's only recently I've seen the silk like quality of professionally prepared nettle fibres.

 

[Minotaur]

I'm with you on this. Apart from anything else paracord is dreadful for making tight lashings. It has its uses but I don't like the fact it will stay on the woodland floor for decades; I really do detest going into woodland and finding bits of paracord all over the place.

Yeah it the cost thing that has sort of turned me off paracord or those covered cords because the outer cover just gets damaged and then new cord required.

I've made cordage for a long time but it's only recently I've seen the silk like quality of professionally prepared nettle fibres.

What extra steps do they take?

I like natural fibres. I make a lot of cordage, sometimes just because I can
It also absorbs stuff like pine tar that you can also make yourself. Kind of preserves and waterproofs it too.

Yourself, Broch and John might be the people to ask however I was watching the rope making Mythbusters episode and Carrie made a hair rope and had real trouble with it. I was also watching something with a Roman Arrow thrower and they used hair ropes. I have also heard that Ninja's used hair climbing ropes however a lot to do with them does not stand up. All of that said I just wonder about how they actually made those ropes. From a strength point of view it has to be the top natural fibre.

 

[TLM]

From a strength point of view it has to be the top natural fibre.

Silk is probably the strongest and spider silk the toughest.

 

[Broch]

What extra steps do they take?

All I have ever done is remove the inner woody part, split the outer into strands - retted or not - then use the normal 'double twist' to make cordage. Recently I've come across references of people teasing out the fibres until you are left with what looks like single white hairs - some quite long. These are then spun into fine fibres. The quality of the cloth that can be produced is quite outstanding and ranges from course fibrous stuff (the kind we expect from nettle) to fine 'linen like' material.

I don't have the patience to try spinning (my mother did) but it makes me wonder if ancient Britons had much finer garb than we tend to believe.

Have a look at Gillian Edom's site as a starter:

Welcome to Gillian Edom's Website (gillianedomsbook.blogspot.com)

 

[John Fenna]

My stronger ropes are spun up from Sisal baler twine - basic rovings really - but my nettle cordage is the same as Broch's. I have spun fibers (mainly wool) from which to twist cord ... but it is a lot of hard work!

 

[Toddy]

Nettle fibres are between three and six inches long I find, but I know someone who breaks them out so aggressively that hers are as short as cotton....and inch long cotton fibre is a good one.
Nettles were used here to spin fibre finer than flax, and nettle cloth is absolutely beautiful.
Flax fibres come out sort of golden creamy coloured but nettle comes out white. It doesn't need bleached.

Hair is blooming awkward stuff to spin. It honestly depends on the hair. I have long hair, it's shiny and it doesn't stay in a spin. I have a friend whose mum's family come from India and her hair is beautiful, long and very slightly textured, not quite curly, but not straight. It spins beautifully, and it stays in it's ply too.

 

[Minotaur]

Silk is probably the strongest and spider silk the toughest.

Spider silk is the top however it is unusable at the moment. I believe it is the holy grail of fibers because of its strength ratio. You could basically have body armor that was a normal fabric with spider silk.
I think silk is a weird one because it strong however it not very tough.

My stronger ropes are spun up from Sisal baler twine - basic rovings really - but my nettle cordage is the same as Broch's. I have spun fibers (mainly wool) from which to twist cord ... but it is a lot of hard work!

I am not sure if I typed this somewhere or not however there was a version of the live like program on the BBC in a castle and the female historian was amazed about how long you would have spent grinding grain and spinning.

Nettle fibres are between three and six inches long I find, but I know someone who breaks them out so aggressively that hers are as short as cotton....and inch long cotton fibre is a good one.
Nettles were used here to spin fibre finer than flax, and nettle cloth is absolutely beautiful.
Flax fibres come out sort of golden creamy coloured but nettle comes out white. It doesn't need bleached.

I wonder why no one is using it especially in Europe? We have bamboo clothing so why not nettle or is it the hemp processing problem that it does not like machines.

Hair is blooming awkward stuff to spin. It honestly depends on the hair. I have long hair, it's shiny and it doesn't stay in a spin. I have a friend whose mum's family come from India and her hair is beautiful, long and very slightly textured, not quite curly, but not straight. It spins beautifully, and it stays in it's ply too.

I do not think of spinning anything except wool however if you can do another fibers it does make sense to do it that way. I wonder if it does not work so well now because we all have washed the oils out of our hair.

 

[TLM]

wonder why no one is using it especially in Europe?

I read somewhere that during WW1 large part of German imperial army uniforms were made out of nettle. I think nettle fabric is still produced in Germany.

The strongest plant fiber according to many sources is an Asian nettle but the common stinging nettle is apparently stronger than more common fibers.

 

[spandit]

Paracord is only popular as it was readily available in a military survival situation, from troops that had parachuted into somewhere. It's not a particularly great cordage, IMHO. There are cheaper, stronger, more abrasion resistance materials available.