Lone females in woodland - dangerous?

[Emma]

My thinking on the subject is if you ever find yourself worried by some stranger or other (whether you're alone or not) then I thoroughly agree with Bambam and Sheryl. It's all in the attitude, if you're calm, confident, and stand up straight then subconsciously you're sending the "don't mess" signal. Even pack hunters choose the weakest-looking prey, never mind lone hunters. Don't make your knife/axe visible because you're not going to use it and it only means they know you have it. If they don't know you have it, they can't use it against you.
Oh, and be aware of who is around you. However you shouldn't stare, as staring is aggressive and between two strangers is the mental equivalent of squaring up for a fight to determine pecking order.
And above all, if you are scared, run like hell.
Even better if you can stop them running after you by throwing something in their face as someone already mentioned.
Of course, running away means that you ought to know where you're going, so make sure you know the area at least roughly.
I've always thought that if you think they'll run after you, and you don't think you can outrun them, if you have a sufficient head start then just climb a tree and be very very quiet. No one looks upwards. (Who can guess my childhood method of playing hide-and-seek? ) Problem with that is the damn size of the trees.

So far all I've had to put into practice is body language, and that's been in school and at night in a city. I've been fine so far, but then that could just be luck.

Oh yes, and some woods can be dangerous... but I think only the city ones. There's a well-known small patch of woodland at the entrance to some Halls at my uni that frequently has some guy lurking in and jumping girls (yes, despite the fact that lads are more likely to be attacked, the men that lurk there only go for girls). The path itself is several feet clear of the bushes, and has street lights in. The Halls reception is manned 24 hours every day, with security lurking around and usually a (very enthusiastic!) dog or two. And still men lurk there.

 

[Greenpete]

My thinking on the subject is if you ever find yourself worried by some stranger or other (whether you're alone or not) then I thoroughly agree with Bambam and Sheryl. It's all in the attitude, if you're calm, confident, and stand up straight then subconsciously you're sending the "don't mess" signal. Even pack hunters choose the weakest-looking prey, never mind lone hunters. Don't make your knife/axe visible because you're not going to use it and it only means they know you have it. If they don't know you have it, they can't use it against you.
Oh, and be aware of who is around you. However you shouldn't stare, as staring is aggressive and between two strangers is the mental equivalent of squaring up for a fight to determine pecking order.
And above all, if you are scared, run like hell.
Even better if you can stop them running after you by throwing something in their face as someone already mentioned.
Of course, running away means that you ought to know where you're going, so make sure you know the area at least roughly.
I've always thought that if you think they'll run after you, and you don't think you can outrun them, if you have a sufficient head start then just climb a tree and be very very quiet. No one looks upwards. (Who can guess my childhood method of playing hide-and-seek? ) Problem with that is the damn size of the trees.

So far all I've had to put into practice is body language, and that's been in school and at night in a city. I've been fine so far, but then that could just be luck.

Oh yes, and some woods can be dangerous... but I think only the city ones. There's a well-known small patch of woodland at the entrance to some Halls at my uni that frequently has some guy lurking in and jumping girls (yes, despite the fact that lads are more likely to be attacked, the men that lurk there only go for girls). The path itself is several feet clear of the bushes, and has street lights in. The Halls reception is manned 24 hours every day, with security lurking around and usually a (very enthusiastic!) dog or two. And still men lurk there.

Very wise words!

 

[Andy]

any place where somebody can hide near uni halls is a very high risk. I still don't agree with NTU's policy of putting the girls upstairs away from halm is valid (Infact I think if it is safer then it's also discrimination putting the already higher risk group at more risk)

 

[Earth Mother]

I'm amazed at the response to this thread - it's obviously a subject that is on the mind of most bushcrafters from time to time. I agree with Viking that most people in woodland aren't there to stalk an easy target but are there for innocent reasons - my concern though is/was from the opportunist attacker. My fears have been quelled somewhat and I'm sure it's safer to feel a little wary than overly confident. Bam, I like your suggestion of meeting up with local peeps, so if there's anyone from the Kent/East Sussex way that fancies the occasional walk let me know
Thanks for all your suggestions and Tony, for getting it back on track

 

[george]

earth mother

I work with young offenders and introduce them to the outdoors - I can assure you that the vast majority of them would be scared out of their minds at being in a wood after dark and would pose very little risk to you - unless of course, like Toddy's story, you stumble into a bunch of them who have sneaked off to find somewhere quiet to indulge in drinking and taking drugs. Even in that case you're at an advantage if you aren't afraid of the woods and know where you are, it makes getting away all the easier. Disappear into the trees and put some distance between you.

I've had to talk down countless 16 - 24 year old "tough guys" out spending a night in the woods who swear they've heard an axe murderer/werewolf/pack of zombies sneaking up on them through the trees - remember they've seen the same movies we have!

If you meet some random "psycho" out stalking in the woods, just like in the movies, then you really are in trouble - but the likelyhood of that happening is so remote as to be extremely improbable and then all the advice everyone else has given you stands.

After the Lyme Bay disaster where several kids died when they were canoeing it became obvious that some of them might have had a better chance of survival had they been wearing life jackets. They had life jackets with them but had been told they were for use in an emergency,. When asked why they hadn't put them on when the first boats started overturning someone said that they hadn't been told it was an emergency! We never want to be the first to take fright.

Learn to trust your instincts as to what constitutes an emergency for you - and then do what needs to be done - 99.999% percent of the time if you feel uneasy that will mean just slipping quietly away into the woods. .009% might mean you need to do something else - but if the time comes then do it, and don't feel embarassed about possibly hurting someones feelings. Remember it's too late afterwards to say "I should have just..."

Of course if I was to come across a woman on her own in the middle of the deep dark woods, armed with an axe, eating strange things out of a pot bubbling on an open fire - I know I'd bu66er of sharpish with all sorts of Blair Witch thoughts going through my mind... so remember, you might be scarier than you think

George

 

[R-Bowskill]

Take a look at the facts:
every year more people are killed on Britains roads than were killed in the 9/11 attacks let alone the numbers killed by strangers while walking in woods etc..
You're probably taking more notice of what's around you than most people when you go into the woods alone.
by the time you're close enough to use most weapons you're too close to someone you're not happy being near.
If you can't avoid them, try to out run them and if that fails turn round and run at them, this turns the sirtuation around, they are no longer controlling events. Most parasites look for a weak target, not someone who'se coming at them, even the rapist is wanting to control his victim so it's a big turn off.

If all else fails use everything you've got, with a man the 'grab, pull and twist' is guaranteed to drop them to the ground and their screams will alert anyone around to the fact theat something is wrong. Plus the neccesary equipment is always to hand (literally).

You're much more likely to have problems where other people are than off the beaten track, Mr mad axe murderer would get bored waiting for someone to stumble past him just 100 yards off most woodland paths. It's the person down the pub who offers you a lift home that is the bigger danger, then they have control, woods are where the bodies turn up rather than where people are initially attacked in most cases.

 

[grahoom]

. Bam, I like your suggestion of meeting up with local peeps, so if there's anyone from the Kent/East Sussex way that fancies the occasional walk let me know

i live down in brighton earth mother, so if you are around that area walking etc, then i would be up for it - i need to meet some people who are into bushcraft and countryside, most of my friends sort of laugh at my rapid collection of equipment.
hehe

 

[Wayland]

'tis true. Anyone remember the example in the paper - maybe last year, there was a young woman lying half in the road and pavement bleeding from a knife wound, and drivers were just driving around her, and pedestrians were walking on by. . And it was all caught on camera....

It's a symptom of the sad, sick world we live in I'm afraid. Most people are too frightened to become involved. What if it’s a crazed drug addict? What if they’ve got aids and bleed on me? What if the bad guys come back? What if I’m asked to give evidence? What if I just ignore it and get on with my own life?………

These days if we get involved we almost become victims ourselves. Many insurance organisations are starting to advise that rather than administer first aid it’s a better idea to get on your mobile and call an ambulance. The reason?….. If you do something wrong the victim may sue you…..

I saw a small boy in a shopping center the other day, no parent visible and crying like his heart was breaking. Most of the public avoided him even as he reached out for help. Eventually I stopped a lady that had just walked past him and said “If we both help him nobody can accuse us of anything”

All that was needed was to take him to a customer services stand where they put out an announcement which resulted in the arrival of a very relieved mother. We have become so obsessed with litigation and paedophilia that the good Samaritan is too scared come out of the paperwork.

I lone man wandering in the woods wearing drab clothes - in today’s sad world how many people would view him as a threat, a pervert or worse?

It was a concern of mine and so much so that I not only take my dog to the woods every time (not that he minds) but I also drag along one of my kids!

Frankly I’m amazed these days that you have not been reported to the police as the first thing that is likely to pass through the heads of most sheeple is a far from innocent reason why you are taking a minor into the woods.

We have created not a society but a monster. It was famously said by Edmund Burke, the 18th Century political thinker, that:- “All it takes for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.”

 

[NickBristol]

It seems to me that most of the really sensible comments in this discussion seem to be about being aware of dangers, probability and how to carry yourself so you appear less vulnerable. These are definitely the attitudes to be encouraged in everyone, and not just in 'vulnerable' women.

There was a discussion on here sometime ago about the perception of the woods as being more dangerous or sinister than the orange glow of civilisation, especially with regards personal safety. Like many of you I suspect, I'm much more comfortable being in the woods or on moorland than a pure urban environment, even though I grew up in large towns and cities, and been far far to close to plenty of what goes on in them.

On the other hand, my fiancee is a pure bred city girl who has little fear in any part of a city, even tho she's tall, slim and strikingly beautiful, so a common target for harrassment. I once saw her knock out cold a 6ft5 tall and 4ft wide bouncer who tried something unwelcome in the queue for a club, but put her on Dartmoor in mid-summer and she's like a kitten let of her box for the first time, convinced that every shadow is a Puma out to get her, or that every tree, gorse bush or rocky outcrop has a mad axeman hiding behind it.

To help with her fear - which she know's is irrational but wont admit - we stopped off in Epping Forest one warm afternoon. We wandered a little way into the trees from the car park and just sat still propped against a tree trunk drinking tea from a flask. The object was to see just how easy it is to spot people in the woods, both by sight and by sound. She soon learnt that it is genuinely quite hard to hide in the woods, and that the sounds of 99% of people moving are a huge giveaway and give a massive advantage in being able to predict potential troubles well in advance. She soon learnt that the small noises she thought were mad axemen creeping up on her were either small birds or squirrels, and that a single dogwalker sounded like a herd of drunk, clumsy, blind-folded elephants moving though the leaf litter.

I guess it all boils down to something my old RSM said once "Always keep your eyes and ears wide open, and always know the route out" but then he also said "If in doubt, empty the magazine" which wouldn't be particularly good advice in this context

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I have read this thread with some interest and seem some good and bad advice given.
As well as being a desk jockey I have studied and taught self protection for some years now.

If anyone is interested I can write something on self protection, although a lot of good points are covered here.

Please let me know if anyone is interested in hearing my thoughts?

Also can I say if you are looking for a self protection course, be careful. Many are just some useless watered down martial art or will tell you that you can defeat a larger opponent easily with their ‘special methods’. You need a course that talks about awareness, attacker psychology, awareness, adrenaline, awareness, and most importantly, awareness!

I’ll shut up now as I am a bore on the subject!

I mainly teach urban self protection as the chances of needing it in the woods is much, much smaller but if your interested in the basic ideas or want book recommendations, let me know.

Stay safe!

 

[FeralSheryl]

Please let me know if anyone is interested in hearing my thoughts?

Of course. Any useful advice is always gratefully received.

 

[Not Bob]

I've had to talk down countless 16 - 24 year old "tough guys" out spending a night in the woods who swear they've heard an axe murderer/werewolf/pack of zombies sneaking up on them through the trees
George

I was discussing this issue with a friend who used to work at a school for 'very naughty' kids. He regularly took them out on overnight camping trips. One 16 year old was a right little **** (I'll call him Sam); really full of himself and with a long offending history including street robbery at knifepoint. Because of his history and his manner most of the other kids were a bit in awe of him.

One night staff and kids were sitting round the campfire and Sam was, as usual, trying to push the boundaries of acceptable behaviour and relating tales of how tough and street-smart he was. Then just at the edge of the fire's glow the eyes of a fox glinted. Sam gave a little scream (the fox moved away at that point) and asked in a very frightened voice what it was. My friend told him it was just a fox whereupon Sam grabbed a torch, went to his tent at some speed, got in, zipped it up and refused to come out until daylight leaving the torch on for as long as the batteries lasted.

Suffice to say that his street-cred went down a few notches after that.

 

[Not Bob]

Earth Mother

I forgot to say my friend (see above post) who's a keen bushcrafter (and a much more capable one than me) lives in West Kent and is willing to make himself available for the occasional jaunt. PM me if you're interested and I'll pass it onto him. He's also big and can look scarey if required.

 

[Kirruth]

Well, I think sensible precautions - such as having a whistle, sturdy shoes, and clothing which permits easy movement - mean that you are safer both from rogue males and from the elements.

In the end, a couple of dozen people die in the Lakes and on the Scottish mountains each year, and hundreds require hospitalisation, simply from natural causes (including hypothermia, falls and heart attacks). There are nothing like that many casualties caused by attacks on walkers and campers.

If I can impart some advice from personal experience, my top tip for dealing with a serious situation is to remember your breathing. As well as putting air in the lungs for screaming, it also calms the mind and puts energy into the muscles, for running or fighting. It also brings your attention squarely into the present moment: a key advantage, which enables you to use all the resources close at hand.

 

[tomtom]

Lone females in woodland - dangerous?

i dont know if they are dangerous, but they scare the hell out of me




sorry

 

[FeralSheryl]

i dont know if they are dangerous, but they scare the hell out of me




sorry

Arf! Nice one tomtom

 

[Justin Time]

I've deleted a couple of posts which went into some details of self defence which weren't in keeping with the thread or the purpose of BCUK.

 

[bombadil]

Been away from the forums for a bit on a little green island in the Atlantic, but just caught this thread.
Something I have thought about a fair bit, and I come to the conclusion that, hang on... if there is some weirdo lurking around in the woods looking threatening....it's probably me!! Seriously, though, this is by far one of the greatest problems. People tend to avoid you when you're ambling about in the sticks, and often view a lone guy with a great deal of suspicion, as if the only reason to be there in the first place was to cause somebody a mischief. I have been confronted by the police on several occasions who have told me in no uncertain terms that I must have some less than ethical reason to be there with no dog, picnic or family straddling behind me, how weird is that! It seems the only "acceptable" way to spend time in the woods is as a member of a scout team or something similar. Personally, if I happen across a dodgy looking fella out in the sticks, I usually talk to him, and very often they have turned out to be some very interesting and knowledgable people. Give me the woods over the high street on a friday night any time, I have no doubt where yer safer......

 

[bambodoggy]

dont go alone, specially if ur a woman.

Some women might take offence at that buddy .... I used to knew a Major in the Israli army who's wife was a captain (and totally stunning looking too as it happens), I once watched her throw a Royal Marine over her shoulder and run off with him and I've seen her sort out several bar fights....beautiful yes, but deadly too lol
I remember taking the micky out of her later about the Marine and without warning and without me being able to stop her...she floored me, picked me up and chucked me over her shoulder too....bearing in mind I'm about 14 stone and she couldn't have been over 9!!!

Don't judge a book by it's cover! ! !

Cheers,

Bam.

 

[arctic hobo]

Some women might take offence at that buddy .... I used to knew a Major in the Israli army who's wife was a captain (and totally stunning looking too as it happens), I once watched her throw a Royal Marine over her shoulder and run off with him and I've seen her sort out several bar fights....beautiful yes, but deadly too lol
I remember taking the micky out of her later about the Marine and without warning and without me being able to stop her...she floored me, picked me up and chucked me over her shoulder too....bearing in mind I'm about 14 stone and she couldn't have been over 9!!!

You sure that wasn't just a dream you had Phil?`
Seriously though, you're right. And if you care to read the thread, "theorsmeister", you will find that lots of people have given detailed and helpful advice