Lasting shaving sharpness - please advise

[MungoJ]

Hello,

I've never really done much bush 'craft' in the past, it's more bush 'destruction' for the purpose of setting fire to it once I've broken it up, and then drinking beer while I watch it disappear.

Consequently I am a tremendously fat man and I want to get more in to this kind of stuff to get fit, and one thing I'd really like to get my head around is sharpening a knife competently. I can sometimes, and I stress sometimes, get a knife shaving-sharp, but it never lasts.

I've got some decent enough knives (more decent that I deserve given my incompetence at looking after them). But when I read people's writings about their knives which are 'shaving sharp', then spend a day in the woods beating the hell out of trees, then are still 'shaving sharp' at the end of the day, it strikes me as completely alien to any experience I've ever had with any knife.

My experience with all outdoor type knives, regardless of expense, type of metal, type of grind or angle of grind is this: 'It was shaving sharp at the start of the day, then I split a couple of logs, feathered a few sticks, and now when I try to shave with it one or two hairs come off my arm if I press hard enough, but I don't want to press that hard because I don't like hospitals'.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks and hello. I have nothing to contribute to this forum but questions, I hope that's okay. I may try to pass other people's expertise off as my own later on when I've learned some stuff from you.

 

[Ecoman]

Ha ha great intro. I love your honesty!

Take a look on YouTube for "how to sharpen a knife". Its a pretty straight forward process but its a skill you can pick up with practice. I found it easier when I got a decent set of Japanese water stones. Before that I was relying on diamond sharpening stones but because they were too coarse the edge I achieved didn't last. Now I can get a knife really sharp and after use I can bring it back with a quick strop.

I'm no expert on knives but I'm sure someone who is will be along shortly to correct me


Oh and welcome aboard

 

[swright81076]

Brilliant introduction from a fellow, ahem, larger gentleman.
Knife sharpening for me was one of the dark arts. I've had knives for over 20 years, but it's only the last few where I've mastered sharpening. Not trying to make it out like it's difficult, is just a technique.

Get some decent stones or use wet and dry on a granite chopping block, go down the grid and finish with a strop. Have a look on YouTube, or better still, find out when the next meet is local to you. There'll be someone to show you in person.

Welcome to the forum.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ecoman]

That makes 3 of us then

 

[MungoJ]

Thanks for the welcome Ecoman and swright81076, it seems like there's a nice crowd on this forum whenever I've read it in the past.

Pies are good.

It seems that stones / waterstones are getting a good vote so far. I do have both a dry stone and a couple of Japanese waterstones, but they haven't seen any use for over a year. The maintenance of a constant angle was just beyond me. I did have one minor success after I saw a video of someone sharpening a knife on a waterstone using a fast rotational motion rather than backwards/forwards. It seemed wrong, but I tried it on a little folding knife and it worked really well. I couldn't make it work on bigger knives and got demoralised and gave up.

Currently I've resigned to generating a convex edge on wet/dry sandpaper type stuff on spongy material. It seems much easier to get decent results every time, but still doesn't give me a lasting-shaving-sharpness.

I tried to reply to my initial post because I realised I'd asked 'What am I doing wrong' when I hadn't even described what I do. The post hasn't appeared, I don't know what went wrong, I expect if I read the forum guides at some point they will tell me.

Here's my most recent experience:

I got a Hultafors heavy duty knife. Very nice. Did a reasonable job of shaving when new. I then put some Autosol on a leather belt and stropped it. I then cleaned it and stropped it on bare leather. It then was very good indeed at shaving and it made me feel really good. I then shaved a small handful of fat pine to start a fire, then cut some paper strips to try to maintain the I've-just-made-a-knife-sharper-look-what-it-can-do buzz I was feeling, and then it all ended. It could no longer shave very well at all - not even as good as when it was new. Only one or two hairs came off.

I think the advice that I should see someone do it in person is probably excellent advice, because clearly all the videos I've watched and descriptions that I've read are not helping me. It would be really interesting to see an expert sharpen a knife in person really close up, and to have them watch me do it and tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks.

 

[Mike8472]

I would say with the stropping or sand paper methods for convexing its all about the pressure you apply on the knife strokes. Too much and the convex edge is too thick and rounded which is less sharp.

my advice would be not to press the blade down for each stroke; but just let the weight of the knife be all the downward pressure and just focus on drawing the blade accross.
that has been my experience for getting a decent edge.

I also would think the type of steel of the blade also will be a defining factor.

 

[Dave-the-rave]

Shaving sharp won't last forever but a good working edge will last a lot longer.

 

[Mr Adoby]

It's all about the angles used when stropping and sharpening.

It is easy to, by mistake, make the edge rounded and blunt instead of sharp. One easy way to get consistent angles is to use a sharpening kit that gives you precise angles while sharpening. There are several out there. Good to repair the damage of too much stropping or free hand sharpening without carefully paying attention to the angle. After a while you get better at free hand sharpening and learn to stop stropping before the knife starts to become blunt.

Google "fixed angle sharpening kit" for ideas.

I have an Edge-Pal Basic, made by a small Swedish one-man (I think) company. Works great with moderate sized knifes like Mora and most Fällkniven that have a parallel back spine. Can handle both scandi and convex grinds. Includes a DC3 stone. It is intended for field use and I have it in a small leather pouch. But it can also be used at home, of course.

http://www.edgepal.com (Swedish, but there is a link to press for English...)

I rarely use it now. I sharpen often, but just a little each time.

If your trousers are a bit dirty and muddy, they can be used to strop the knife after each use. When you have done some baton work or carving, clean the knife by "stropping" it on your thighs a few times. That will help keeping the knife shaving sharp a bit longer...

 

[MSkiba]

Great intro!

I wouldn't take it too seriously but the more practice the easier it gets. I too struggled with the angle, but after much practice I noticed it just came naturally, and the knife just inherited my own angle after a year or so of me sharpening it and I can see my character on the bevel. Maybe try the method where you paint the bevel with a black marker so you can see on-the-go if your angle is correct.

Few tips:

If its important to you, get a "proper" leather belt, so you can strop on the go
avoid abrasive surfaces when washing you knife (rough sponge?)
re-strop after every trip
The more narrow the edge/bevel, sharper it is, shorter it lasts
No matter how sharp your knife is, after a heavy camp full of battening, cutting etc.. the shave sharp will disappear
If your using old sharpening stones, re-hone them using a flat surface and sandpaper
practice practice practice

 

[sandbender]

Hello and welcome.

This thread may help.

Five pound sharpening kit

 

[Stringmaker]

Judging by the tone of your intro and subsequent comments you'll fit in here just perfectly!

I'm with you; sharpening is a bit of a dark art. Good luck and welcome.

 

[ozzy1977]

Take a look at the spyderco sharpmaker it is a great bit of kit for those who cant use stones or strop

 

[Tiley]

Thanks and hello. I have nothing to contribute to this forum but questions, I hope that's okay. I may try to pass other people's expertise off as my own later on when I've learned some stuff from you.

Hello and welcome. I like your candour! I think you speak a truth to which not many would admit!

On your 'shaving sharp' question, it can seem like a dark art. I believe there was a book published Stateside a little while ago called something like "How to sharpen anything" - at least that was what I was told by the bloke who taught me how to get an edge on things. It has to be said that having and using a knife with a Scandi grind will make the whole process a lot easier as all the gnarly things like angles are sorted for you. Ultimately, it'll come with practice. You are right though: it is rare to use a knife for a day, carving, battening (if you must) and all other tasks and then find that you can still shave your arms with it. As has been said, stropping regularly will get you closer to that ideal. A belt is good; a strip of hide glued to a solid, flat surface is better. Using something like Tormek grinding paste will also help your stropping antics.

If you still want to shave your arms at the end of the day, I would suggest that it is better to use a hair removal cream at home or wax before you go and enjoy yourself in the woods...!

 

[Big Stu 12]

I have found Shaving sharp is all well and good but never really stays long, it all depends on how you use your knife what is made of ect ect..

All I do is get it sharp.. then evry now and then strop it on teh end of my belt that I wear... its got quite a long tail when its done up..

 

[Stringmaker]

At the risk of getting too technical; I understand the "shaving sharp" edge to be fragile because it is so fine; hence it loses its edge quickly.

A stronger edge is the slight secondary bevel, which means only a tiny portion of the blade to hone instead of the whole grind?

 

[John Fenna]

Hello and welcome!
Try these links...
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10718
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12348

 

[Ecoman]

Hello and welcome!
Try these links...
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10718
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12348

Some excellent tips and advice in those posts. Really interesting read.

 

[Longstrider]

A well heat treated piece of good blade steel should be able to take and hold a good edge, IF that edge is set up correctly in the first place. Useful sharpness is not all about whether the blade will shave arm hair. A well polished 90 degree angle can do that, but you'd not want to try whittling with it

Learning good technique to sharpen an edge will allow you to give that edge good geometry, which in turn will make it both longer lasting in use and easier to maintain. Nothing beats learning this from someone on a 1-to-1 basis, but good info can be gained from Youtube if you are able to sort the wheat from the chaff.

 

[ammo]

Haha good intro.
Hello and welcome.
The first bit of advice would be. Get into foraging. You burn calories and get a tasty healthy reward.
I ruined the edge of a great knife when learning. I rounded the edge. Then I might get a micro bur on the edge. It would go blunt quickly because the angles were wrong. Start again as if your edge is chipped, and go light.

 

[Uilleachan]

I learnt to sharpen a knife in the boy scouts and was shown the finer points of sharpening by my father, but it was working in the fishing industry where I learned both industrial intensity handling and sharpening.

There are two main jobs that a knife is used for in fishing, fish gutting and net mending, neither require a "shave the hairs off your arm edge". Sharpening for mending involved course stone only and very few bothered to remove the burr, for gutting most removed the burr as the need for the stone was less intensive. Honing to a razor edge was an utter waste of time, the only time we did that was to show off and only ever did that in down time.

Fish filleting requires more care and a finer edge for good results, but the filleting environment is a much cleaner environment, no grit and mud to take the razor edge off during the first cut.

I think it's all down to what one does with a knife that'll determine the edge requirement. Scandi grind on decent steel and a set of decent stones, oil or water, it's easy enough to get a "shave the hair off your arm" sharp, but even thats not razor, or any razor I'd like to use