Knife Scale Failure - Advice Wanted

[Totumpole]

I was having a look at my old faithful Ben Orford knife. It has served me well for many years now, and remains a firm favourite. I was horrified to notice that it seems the scale seems to be starting to come away from the tang. The gap is minute, but I can definitely suck air through it.



I also recently received a Condor Kephart for my birthday. I'm very taken with the feel of the knife, but the scales are not well fitted at the bolster area where the handle meets the blade.



So I'm looking for advice on how to plug these gaps. Any thoughts?

For the Kephart I was thinking I might just tape up the blade and try and force some epoxy in there, then sand the area down again as I'm not really fussed about the epoxy staining the scales. I don't think this will work for the Ben Orford though, as the gap is really minute.

Thanks in advance for the help!

Colin

 

[Stew]

Don't go for epoxy. It'll be too thick to force in to the gap.

If you have patience, thin superglue will do it. Put a bit in and let it wick into the gap. Don't try and fill it in one go. It'll take quite a number of sessions, allowing it to dry between. Once it's filled you will need to sand it smooth but if you're careful it won't need much. You can also mask either side of the crack to reduce the amount of overspill.

You will be able to see the glue after but barely. Unfortunately the only other option is a rescale.

 

[Totumpole]

... thin superglue will do it...

Thanks for the prompt response Stew. I'll give that a go.

 

[ejtrent]

You can get thinner epoxies - west systems is very thin but youd have to buy a lot of it! As Stew says 5 min epoxy is thick.

Ive used this super glue hybrid before that worked really well:

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p61316

Only thing with standard superglue is it is very brittle - so bear that in mind

 

[Alan De Enfield]

If you still have structural strength and just want to 'fill the crack' you could consider this stuff - we use this on our boats if anything starts to 'lift'.
It is an adhesive but I would not suggest that it is equivalent to araldite etc.

https://www.marinesuperstore.com/se...dzP3NZkZ93lmaxGZ12ZxG21pyowMgDREaAiujEALw_wcB

"Captain Tolley’s is a low viscosity copolymer adhesive with exceptional penetrating properties.

Formulated to be as thin as water, Captain Tolley’s draws into hairline cracks and gaps using capillary action".

 

[Janne]

If the glue is failing on one part, I would suspect it will fail on the rest too.
I would try to (gently) remove the scale, clean and reglue it.

 

[Fadcode]

Descaling and rescaling is the only answer

 

[ejtrent]

Its they are made using loveless or corbys you wont be able to get them off without destroying.

 

[Mesquite]

Personally I'd send the pictures to Ben Orford before you attempt any repairs yourself.

It's highly likely he'd want the knife back so he can re scale it for you.

 

[Dave Budd]

welcome to the world of natural materials and one reason why I seldom make full tang knives

It's not going to fall off the blade so just flil it to stop cack and rust forming in the gap.

 

[BushBob]

I've tried filling gaps on lifted scales in the past and the results have never been very good. Suggest you might be better off rescaling. The original handle material will probably be lost in the process but that's not a disaster.

Good luck with it and I'd be interested to see the results.

 

[Totumpole]

Thanks for all the responses. Many great ideas.

Only thing with standard superglue is it is very brittle - so bear that in mind

Yeah, I worry about that a little.

That stuff looks ideal. I live in Australia now and a brief look at google I can't see an equivalent product without shipping from the UK. I'm home for a visit later in the year, might pick some up if I can.

Personally I'd send the pictures to Ben Orford before you attempt any repairs yourself.

It's highly likely he'd want the knife back so he can re scale it for you.

I was thinking I might do that as well. However, it's too late to do it before the repair now, as I've dribbled in some superglue. Still think its worth seeing what he says. As I say above, I live in Australia now and they have strict rules about importing knives. The way I read it I have to apply for a permit to do so. The last thing I would want is to chance it and have customs take the knife off me when its shipped back.

If the glue is failing on one part, I would suspect it will fail on the rest too.
I would try to (gently) remove the scale, clean and reglue it.

Its they are made using loveless or corbys you wont be able to get them off without destroying.

Did think about it. The handle material is antler which would be pretty brittle. I doubt removal possible without losing the original scales. If it comes to it, not a complete disaster.

It's not going to fall off the blade so just flil it to stop cack and rust forming in the gap.

True, I think the most I can hope for is a good seal to prevent any crap getting in. If it fails further I think a re-scaling is the final option as many suggested.


As I said, I put some superglue on it last night and left it to set. Just going to check the results now...

 

[Totumpole]

So as I mentioned, I went with the superglue. I'm inpatient and its what I had in the house. Unfortunately, it wasn't super thin, but seems to have done the trick.

First I taped around the areas with electrical tape, to try and minimise spillage and spread to the surrounding knife.
On the Ben Orford I stuck the whole end of the handle in my mouth and blew against closed lips to try and create a bit of positive pressure to force it down into the cracks. I don't have a knack for sword swallowing, so didn't do this with the condor!

Here are the before and after results on both knives.


The Ben Orford Knife looks to have come out perfect after running some fine sandpaper over the glue to flatten it. Better than expected. It seems air tight when I suck up against the scales again now, so hopefully that will keep all the water & grime out.

The Condor came out more like what I would have expected, with a bit of white discolouration to the scale adjacent to the crack, and the surface of the glue in the crack isn't very smooth & has a white colour to it. But hell, this one was never going to be a pretty blade, and hopefully now dirt & grime will be kept out from under the scales.

I still have some reservations about superglue being brittle, but I'll se how they get on when I put them to use.

Thanks again for all the great advice. The forum really is a wealth of knowledge!

Colin

 

[Wander]

I'd say you've done a splendid job on both knives there, particularly the Ben Orford.
I've done a similar thing with superglue before and if it makes you feel better I never had a problem with it coming away again.

For the black handle one. Have you tried giving the white bloom a gentle scrub? That will often get rid of it. Failing that, and if you have a steady enough hand, then using some modellers enamel (not acrylic - enamel is tougher) paint over it with some black gloss and a thin brush. Or maybe a bit of black shoe polish?
I know it's not important, but I also know how those kind of details can pick at one's wits.

 

[Samon]

Sound advice so far and you did a good fix on both knives mate.

It really is a bugger when scales lose adhesion to the tang. Especially when you make the knife yourself! I had issues with fillet knives and a couple of others, I used good epoxy and did the steps to get a good deal but flex in steel or natural materials just lead to the scales becoming unstuck.

Like I said, good job!

 

[DocG]

Great repair job.

I've been struggling with my first handle and the tip about thin superglue is helpful.

Thanks to all who've added to this thread - it's useful for those of us who lurk and try to learn.

 

[Robson Valley]

Loctite 404 cyanocrylate cement (yellow, red or blue) comes in 5ml or 10 ml dropper bottles. Water thin.

If the cracks had been wider and epoxy could have been a choice:
Get some epoxy up into a plastic soda straw. Pinch the end flat.
Weasel the flattened end into the crack and roll up the other end to force the epoxy to flow into the crack.

Dark-colored repairs are least visible. I use JB Weld. carve off the squeeze-out tomorrow.

 

[MrEd]

If you still have structural strength and just want to 'fill the crack' you could consider this stuff - we use this on our boats if anything starts to 'lift'.
It is an adhesive but I would not suggest that it is equivalent to araldite etc.

https://www.marinesuperstore.com/se...dzP3NZkZ93lmaxGZ12ZxG21pyowMgDREaAiujEALw_wcB

"Captain Tolley’s is a low viscosity copolymer adhesive with exceptional penetrating properties.

Formulated to be as thin as water, Captain Tolley’s draws into hairline cracks and gaps using capillary action".

This stuff is excellent, I have used it successfully a number of times.

 

[Bionic]

Its they are made using loveless or corbys you wont be able to get them off without destroying.

I know this is replying a bit after the horse has bolted so to speak but if you ever do need to remove scales fitted with loveless or Corby bolts it is sometimes possible to very carefully drill them out. It’s a bit hit and miss but worse case scenario is you knacker up a set of scales you were going to destroy any way

 

[ejtrent]

True, althought some very precise drilling would be required on whats more than likely curved surfaces haha