Knife Question

[RovingArcher]

Yep, it's been my experience that Sheffield knives don't go for much money. Personally, I think they're cool old knives with a rich history.

 

[Goose]

I've had very little problem with knives over the years. I had a kid try to poke me once, but I just got a few cuts on my hands and forearms. He really didn't know what he was doing, and I'm an instructor in edged weapon defense.

We did have a guy gutted with a knife last year. He lived and is doing fine, but when we came on the scene, all his guts were outside his body. His three attackers are looking at some very long prison terms. It was over drugs.

When I was young, growing up in a predominently Finn and NDN community, a lot of the older Finns would get into knife fights when they'd had too much to drink. They would get out their pukkos and hold them by the tip of the blade and cut each other. There would only be a half inch, or so, of the blade exposed to do damage. They didn't want to kill each other, just "learn" them a bit. I don't recall any of the Finns ever engaging in knife play with any of the NDNs. NDNs didn't play by the same rules.

PG

Whats an NDN?

 

[Hoodoo]

Yep, it's been my experience that Sheffield knives don't go for much money. Personally, I think they're cool old knives with a rich history.

True, but it's gotta be worth more than $6. The guy told me he looked it up in Levine's to see what it was worth but I forgot what he said. I don't have either of the last two editions of Levines.

 

[pierre girard]

Whats an NDN?

Indian - Native American - First Nations.

Just a little computer shorthand.

PG

 

[RovingArcher]

True, but it's gotta be worth more than $6. The guy told me he looked it up in Levine's to see what it was worth but I forgot what he said. I don't have either of the last two editions of Levines.

I agree, the old knives hold a higher value than they are fetching on the open market. But, when I bought the Thomas Wilson knife, it was on a tray of OLD tools in a silent auction. I put my bid down and people walked over and threw their noses up in the air and past on bidding. The 100 year old, mint condition pipe wrench is worth what I paid for everything. Other items on the tray; small Victory fire hose nozzle, hand forged hay/meat hook, solid brass torch, a couple of old slide rules with leather cases, a pair of old clamp on ice skate blades and a solid brass hand pump garden sprayer. All in great condition.

 

[demographic]

Carcajou Garou, good to see you posting.

As some may know, I picked up a Sheffield blade by Thomas Wilson. It takes and holds a wicked edge and is still sound after 100+ years.

I have a couple of carving knifes very much like the one pictured and if I look closely I can see the part where the two different peices of steel that form the tang and the blade have been forged together and joined.

On mine it's in the last inch or so of the blade.

 

[dtalbot]

To my mind Sheffield always has, and still does produce some of the finest steel and blades going. I think there are two things behind it's low value. First Sheffield produces some utter rubbish as well, I'm sure we all bought a cheap and very nast Sheffield penknife with our pocket money at some point! And Sheffield blades have been a feature of the kitchens, workshops, farms and all the rest of us and our ancestors all over the world for generations so rather than being recognised as the special things they are they are taken for granted, they always have done the job without a fuss so that is what we expect of them.
Cheers
David

 

[scruff]

While I'm not an expert on the subject, I know a few, and it is their opinion that most 18th and early 19th century "trade knives" were common kitchen knives from France and England. French trade knives were precursors of today's "chef's knife," though generally smaller.

Most English trade knives were of the Sheffield "cutlery" variety, and look more like a sharp butter knife than anything else. The English did produce a French style knife once the French were out of North America - as the customer demand was high.

Green River knives were a common butcher style knife and the early ones, used in the fur trade, had no specific markings. Knives were a lot less stylish on the frontier - unless you were an American carrying a Bowie knife (Americans were known to the Ojibwe as "gitchie mookomans" or big knives). Seems to me most folks back then got by better with a lot less knife.

Most western and southern states (except for California, Oregon, and Washington) have fairly relaxed gun laws. I'm not up on the particulars. The eastern seaboard states have fairly restrictive gun laws.

I'd love to see photos of your Green River style knife - when it arrives. We have a cheap brand of kitchen cutlery available called "Old Hickory" which is very comparable to the old Green River knives.

PG

Thanks for the info.

I was hoping to have the knife today but it wasn't in the post I've just been to collect. I'll certainly pop a picture up for you to take a look at.

T

 

[jason01]

Heres one from a sheffield maker thats still going, I posted it a week or so ago

good carbon steel, takes a fine edge, original handle was badly fitted. Its a good everyday utility knife, nothing fancy, it just cuts aimed at butchers/users not collectors

and a link to the makers website

H M Slater

I think there are a few others still going, such as Joseph Rodgers? All of the tool steel that I use for forging steels/blades is also Sheffield made.

 

[scruff]

Jason01 - where do you think i got the link to buy mine from?

cheers dude!

its not arrived today by the way.

PG - the knife itself was listed under the fishing section so i assume like you've said it is designed for some kind of fishing task and became popular for skinning other beasts etc??

 

[jason01]

Jason01 - where do you think i got the link to buy mine from?

cheers dude!

its not arrived today by the way.

Cool I hope it arrives soon and you like it! They are a bit rough and ready, and I suspect theyve always been the same but the blades are good. I wonder what kind of market they have for these knives as I dont think professional food prep people use carbon steel in this country these days, maybe they are for export probably 3rd world?

By chance I picked up this one yesterday to keep it company, valentines pressy formyself , this one is marked "William Rodgers, I cut my way", a very simple old blade shape probably unchanged for a couple hundred years, interestingly with a full convex grind (and 2ndry bevel), the handle slabs will need replacing again (they are the same design as my HM Slater butcher but not quite as badly warped) I suspect its new old stock so may have been lying around for some years. I paid a wapping £6.99 for this one

Theres also a chap on British blades who regularly does group buys for sheffield made blades think its Andy??

 

[Klenchblaize]

We don't have a gun culture, the highest number of murders and serious assaults involve knives, so the police periodically clear them off the streets.

Cheers,
Toddy

Toddy

Sadly, I believe we do very much have a g-- culture but as such tends to be predominant amongst an inerr-city Minority it is, for want of a better description, swept under the carpet for the most part. The increase in UK g-- crime is unarguable but for whatever reason the authorities choose to play it down rather than entering meaningful debate about both the cause and solution.

This is not mentioned to be antagonistic but rather to demonstrate what I understand to be meant by the term "g-- culture".

A good thread, in light of the latest UK "Knife Amnesty", might be that of how long before we will need a licence to aquire anthing that doesn't resemble the good old Sheffield table knife? Yes, we all understand the madness of such but the number of people who quite seriously put this forward as a solution to knife related crime is frightening!

Cheers

K
Ps: Do they really "clear them off the streets" or should that read from Auntie Betty's bottom drawer? We can't dispute that less knives mean less opertunity to aquire and misuse them, but then that brings us right back to the argument that is to restrict knife ownership. That argument so clearly being, if taken to a logical conclusion, that if you didn't have a Ray Mears knife in the house then it couldn't be stolen and then used for something other than cutting wood.

 

[pierre girard]

Jason01 - where do you think i got the link to buy mine from?

cheers dude!

its not arrived today by the way.

PG - the knife itself was listed under the fishing section so i assume like you've said it is designed for some kind of fishing task and became popular for skinning other beasts etc??

? Have to see a photo of that. If it is the same one shown on Jason's - that would be a (beast) skinning knife.

PG

 

[Hoodoo]

Here's a few Sheffields I picked up awhile back. They all seem to be very well made.

 

[RovingArcher]

Very nice knives. The last one looks very familiar to me.

 

[Martyn]

Pocket knives are illegal?

Almost everyone here carries some kind of pocket knife.

As you may know, I work as a peace officer. When we make an arrest, we remove any knives from the arrested person. We are supposed to return the knives when they are released. We often end up keeping the knives, though we do return them - if requested. Right now, I have a two foot square box full of knives that I have to figure out what to do with.

Gun Laws:

Guns may be carried in the trunk of a vehicle, unloaded, or inside the vehicle, cased, with the case fastened, zippered, or securely closed, and the gun unloaded. When we confiscate such a weapon, during an arrest, we are almost always required to return it to the owner - unless it is stolen, has been used in a crime - or is illegal (fully automatic or a sawed-off shotgun).

Police, or retired police, can carry a pistol anywhere in the USA.

I'm sure this will play to some of your stereotypes of American culture. In Minnesota, pistols may be carried on your person, concealed or not concealed, and loaded, if you have a permit. Any non-felon can get a permit for $100 per year. Any non felon, with, or without, a permit, can carry any type of firearm in the woods at any time of year. It is unlawful to shoot within the city limits of any town (but many folks do - skunks, etc.). In spite of what you may think about this - we have very little gun crime in our area. Most gun owners are hunters and are very consciencious.

PG

We have some gun crime, but the numbers are low - usually less than 50 murders per anum out of a population of 65 million. We are just not really a gun nation, it's always been rare for either civillians, criminals or the police to carry guns. It's changing rapidly though. We seem to be importing a lot of foriegn criminals recently who are bringing their gunslinging with them - they dont seem to mind shooting the local female police officers either (link link). But it still remains very low.

Knife crime is responsible for more deaths, though the vast majority of those are "domestics" or impulse crimes which involve kitchen knives and not hunting (or similar) type knives. Though the legislation is harsh, we are still allowed to carry a folding pocket knife in a public place, providing the blade is under 3" and the knife has no lock.

 

[pierre girard]

Here's a few Sheffields I picked up awhile back. They all seem to be very well made.

For outdoor work, if I were able to pick up knives like these, and the two shown above in Jason's post - I wouldn't be looking for anything else. Look like excellent knives, everything you need.

I especially like the looks of the bottom one and Jason's top one.

PG

 

[pierre girard]

We have some gun crime, but the numbers are low - usually less than 50 murders per anum out of a population of 65 million. We are just not really a gun nation, it's always been rare for either civillians, criminals or the police to carry guns. It's changing rapidly though. We seem to be importing a lot of foriegn criminals recently who are bringing their gunslinging with them - they dont seem to mind shooting the local female police officers either (link link). But it still remains very low.

Knife crime is responsible for more deaths, though the vast majority of those are "domestics" or impulse crimes which involve kitchen knives and not hunting (or similar) type knives. Though the legislation is harsh, we are still allowed to carry a folding pocket knife in a public place, providing the blade is under 3" and the knife has no lock.

Sounds familiar. Legislating against the law abiding citizens in hopes of controlling the non-law abiding citizens. It isn't that knives (or guns) have changed.

In the early 1960s, we had very few gun laws. We recently came across a local 1964 Duluth news paper. Besides having a lot more interesting news in it, it had a front page article, large headline, of a murder suicide involving a man and his wife. It had occurred in lower Michigan. Made the national wire services. Today, it wouldn't get that headline if it had occurred in town. It isn't the guns that have changed. General gun ownership was a given at that time.

PG

 

[scruff]

Got a little package in the post today!

The knife I recieved is very similar to the bottom one in Hoodoo's pic. Handle and blade shape and 'features'.

The build quality seems okay but as for the blade....well its so blunt I could ride bare arsed to blackpool on it. i'll have to take it home for a sharpen before letting you know about the performance.

Its only a five inch blade and my first thoughts are its a tad small for my hands but I guess thats alot to do with my using the (relatively wide gripped) Shing blade I handled a few months ago alot more than my Isakki pukko.

I'll try and get some pics soon (digi cam issues at moment - was meant to put one up of the jacket I won too!)

ps. Pierre, don't go rush to buy one 'cos you may have a gift winging your way soon

 

[jason01]

Here's a few Sheffields I picked up awhile back. They all seem to be very well made.

Hoodoo you topper I bet Ive got more chisels than you though Nice looking knives as ever.

I just Googled for the maker on your knives J Nowill & sons and came up with this Sheffield Knives Apologies if I'm just rehashing links that everyone else knows already

Some interesting stuff under miscellaneous, they look a bit more pricey than H M Slater and better finished.