Knife Question

[pierre girard]

Seems like I hear a lot about knives named Falkhiven, Mora, and Helle (I do have an old Mora - so I've at least heard of that). I've been a little surprised, on a UK site, to never hear of Sheffield knives - a name so well known in America that it is still synonymous with good steel. My old dictionary even says, "Sheffield, a city in NE England where fine cuttlery is produced."

I have a Sheffield fur trade knife that is from about 1800. The blade has been cut down, possibly as a patch knife, but it holds an edge so fine, you don't care to touch it, or it will slice you. Sharp as a razor (I have shaved with it).

Is Sheffield still making knives?

PG

 

[weekend_warrior]

Sadly not much knife making going on ijn the old steel city these days - see this wikipedia entry for a potted history..

Basically, price competition took the market away. There was some hope in special steels and alloys - I'm not sure what came of it..

Wikipedia

 

[Tutchi]

Is Sheffield still making knives?

Pierre
The knife making in Sheffield has been decimated as has most of the engineering there. I remember when I first went to Sheffield way back in the 70's it was like bonfire night every night what with the big steel mills and the foundries working 24/7 The sky was ablaze and you could hear the big hammers pounding. Every other street had " Little Meister's" cutlery works and it was a joy to see. Different world now. As far as I know there are very few cutlery w/shops still open. If I recall its down to single figures now. Saddening. I remember one lad from Sheffield saying " Maggie Thatcher (Ex Prime Minister) did to Sheffield what Hitler never managed"

Tutchi

 

[weekend_warrior]

... I remember one lad from Sheffield saying " Maggie Thatcher (Ex Prime Minister) did to Sheffield what Hitler never managed"..

Tutchi

I remember that quote too... It's very sad indeed especially as so much was created there - Stainless Steel was born in Sheffield.

 

[Toddy]

Is Sheffield still making knives?

Pierre
The knife making in Sheffield has been decimated as has most of the engineering there. I remember when I first went to Sheffield way back in the 70's it was like bonfire night every night what with the big steel mills and the foundries working 24/7 The sky was ablaze and you could hear the big hammers pounding. Every other street had " Little Meister's" cutlery works and it was a joy to see. Different world now. As far as I know there are very few cutlery w/shops still open. If I recall its down to single figures now. Saddening. I remember one lad from Sheffield saying " Maggie Thatcher (Ex Prime Minister) did to Sheffield what Hitler never managed"

Tutchi

I live the other side of the valley from Motherwell and they made high quality steel there too, at Ravenscraig.
We called them Electric sunsets when the hot metal lit up the skies.
We're a post industrial nation now. I took my sons to watch the giant cooling towers being blown up when they decommissioned the steelworks, I doubt we'll ever build like that again here.

Maggie Thatcher gets an awful lot of vitriol poured on her name round here too.


Toddy

 

[tomtom]

My old dictionary even says, "Sheffield, a city in NE England where fine cuttlery is produced."

i think your dictionary is out of date, it should read "Sheffield, a city in NE England where fine cuttlery used to be produced."

seriously, the knife market and thuse the knife manufacturing industry in the UK is very very different the US and Canada and there are now very few decent production knives made in Sheffield and non that i know of suitable for bushcrafting.

 

[Shing]

I lived in Sheffield for 12 years and saw the remains of the cutlery industry. US was Sheffield's biggest export market in the 19th century so its not surprising there is a lot of old Sheffield cutlery there. There is very little of the kind of cutlery being made today like bowies, folders and work knives and most of it is adquate at best rather than high quality.

 

[pierre girard]

i think your dictionary is out of date, it should read "Sheffield, a city in NE England where fine cuttlery used to be produced."

seriously, the knife market and thuse the knife manufacturing industry in the UK is very very different the US and Canada and there are now very few decent production knives made in Sheffield and non that i know of suitable for bushcrafting.

Checked the title page - 1963.

Are there older Sheffield knives available - in pawn shops and the like?

PG

 

[Toddy]

Checked the title page - 1963.

Are there older Sheffield knives available - in pawn shops and the like?

PG

Thereare a lot of old Sheffield cutlery knives available in every charity shop and car boot sale in the land, but unless you were intending to make them into folding pocket knife blades I doubt they'd be heavy enough.
Round here old pocket knives end up in the police amnesty bins usually (next one is due in a month).......you could ask on BB, someone there might be more aware of the state of play with old Sheffield knives.

We don't have a gun culture, the highest number of murders and serious assaults involve knives, so the police periodically clear them off the streets.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[pierre girard]

Thereare a lot of old Sheffield cutlery knives available in every charity shop and car boot sale in the land, but unless you were intending to make them into folding pocket knife blades I doubt they'd be heavy enough.
Round here old pocket knives end up in the police amnesty bins usually (next one is due in a month).......you could ask on BB, someone there might be more aware of the state of play with old Sheffield knives.

We don't have a gun culture, the highest number of murders and serious assaults involve knives, so the police periodically clear them off the streets.

Cheers,
Toddy

Pocket knives are illegal?

Almost everyone here carries some kind of pocket knife.

As you may know, I work as a peace officer. When we make an arrest, we remove any knives from the arrested person. We are supposed to return the knives when they are released. We often end up keeping the knives, though we do return them - if requested. Right now, I have a two foot square box full of knives that I have to figure out what to do with.

Gun Laws:

Guns may be carried in the trunk of a vehicle, unloaded, or inside the vehicle, cased, with the case fastened, zippered, or securely closed, and the gun unloaded. When we confiscate such a weapon, during an arrest, we are almost always required to return it to the owner - unless it is stolen, has been used in a crime - or is illegal (fully automatic or a sawed-off shotgun).

Police, or retired police, can carry a pistol anywhere in the USA.

I'm sure this will play to some of your stereotypes of American culture. In Minnesota, pistols may be carried on your person, concealed or not concealed, and loaded, if you have a permit. Any non-felon can get a permit for $100 per year. Any non felon, with, or without, a permit, can carry any type of firearm in the woods at any time of year. It is unlawful to shoot within the city limits of any town (but many folks do - skunks, etc.). In spite of what you may think about this - we have very little gun crime in our area. Most gun owners are hunters and are very consciencious.

PG

 

[scruff]

Thats most informative Pierre (esp. retired officers and carrying in woods). How does other state gun carry regulations differ (re. woods etc)? > Perhaps this is for another thread hey<

Back to the Sheffield knives though. It is a shame that we seem to have lost our knife making heritage, whilst, in Scandanavia for example, its still very strong.

I'm currently waiting to recieve a Green River type knife from one of the Sheffield knife makers that is still going. It was pretty cheap so my expectations aren't huge, but I may be surprised.

Maybe after I've given it a bit of a test drive I could send it over and you can compare it against some of your older Sheffield steel blades? (I think I remember reading you had a similar style knife at home??)

 

[Topcat02]

I've got an old scout knife, "I cut my way", not particularly sharp, but great for knocking in tent pegs, prying things, and generally poking about in the woods. Quite attached to it, as it used to be my father in laws knife from 40 years ago.

 

[Mr_Yarrow]

Hi Pierre,

Pocket knives are a funny thing in UK law. The criminal justice act 1988 section 179 states that you may carry a non locking folding bladed knife, where the blade is less than 3 inches long - without needing a good reason. You can then also carry a locking folding knife or a fixed blade if you have a good reason, which can be work or leisure activity related - tree surgeon, fisherman, craftsmen. And then of course there are other exemptions which mean people wearing a kilt can carry a dirk (dagger) and Sikhs can carry a Kirpin(sp?).

This is only true for definite in England and Wales, not sure about Scotland and Northern Ireland.

And of course theres that whole raftof knives that are plain illegal to make or sell, flick, balisong, push dagger etc. But even some of these are allowed to be owned and bought/sold if they are antique (over 100 years old)

This is a brief summary and more details can be found at British Blades (link is at the start of the edged tools forum)

Rgds

 

[Mr_Yarrow]

I know of ne rather good sheffield maker still going and thats Stuart Mitchell, son of Pat Mitchell. Stuart now runs Pat Mitchell knives after both his parents have now passed on.

He trades on ebay and does a variety of nice fixed blades. Auctions start at arounf £50-60 for what looks a good quality bushy/hunter/skinner etc. Dont know what theyre like to use as not handled one, but they do look nice!

Rgds

 

[pierre girard]

Thats most informative Pierre (esp. retired officers and carrying in woods). How does other state gun carry regulations differ (re. woods etc)? > Perhaps this is for another thread hey

I'm currently waiting to recieve a Green River type knife from one of the Sheffield knife makers that is still going. It was pretty cheap so my expectations aren't huge, but I may be surprised.

Maybe after I've given it a bit of a test drive I could send it over and you can compare it against some of your older Sheffield steel blades? (I think I remember reading you had a similar style knife at home??)

While I'm not an expert on the subject, I know a few, and it is their opinion that most 18th and early 19th century "trade knives" were common kitchen knives from France and England. French trade knives were precursors of today's "chef's knife," though generally smaller.

Most English trade knives were of the Sheffield "cutlery" variety, and look more like a sharp butter knife than anything else. The English did produce a French style knife once the French were out of North America - as the customer demand was high.

Green River knives were a common butcher style knife and the early ones, used in the fur trade, had no specific markings. Knives were a lot less stylish on the frontier - unless you were an American carrying a Bowie knife (Americans were known to the Ojibwe as "gitchie mookomans" or big knives). Seems to me most folks back then got by better with a lot less knife.

Most western and southern states (except for California, Oregon, and Washington) have fairly relaxed gun laws. I'm not up on the particulars. The eastern seaboard states have fairly restrictive gun laws.

I'd love to see photos of your Green River style knife - when it arrives. We have a cheap brand of kitchen cutlery available called "Old Hickory" which is very comparable to the old Green River knives.

PG

 

[pierre girard]

Hi Pierre,

Pocket knives are a funny thing in UK law. The criminal justice act 1988 section 179 states that you may carry a non locking folding bladed knife, where the blade is less than 3 inches long - without needing a good reason. You can then also carry a locking folding knife or a fixed blade if you have a good reason, which can be work or leisure activity related - tree surgeon, fisherman, craftsmen. And then of course there are other exemptions which mean people wearing a kilt can carry a dirk (dagger) and Sikhs can carry a Kirpin(sp?).

This is only true for definite in England and Wales, not sure about Scotland and Northern Ireland.

And of course theres that whole raftof knives that are plain illegal to make or sell, flick, balisong, push dagger etc. But even some of these are allowed to be owned and bought/sold if they are antique (over 100 years old)

This is a brief summary and more details can be found at British Blades (link is at the start of the edged tools forum)

Rgds

I've had very little problem with knives over the years. I had a kid try to poke me once, but I just got a few cuts on my hands and forearms. He really didn't know what he was doing, and I'm an instructor in edged weapon defense.

We did have a guy gutted with a knife last year. He lived and is doing fine, but when we came on the scene, all his guts were outside his body. His three attackers are looking at some very long prison terms. It was over drugs.

When I was young, growing up in a predominently Finn and NDN community, a lot of the older Finns would get into knife fights when they'd had too much to drink. They would get out their pukkos and hold them by the tip of the blade and cut each other. There would only be a half inch, or so, of the blade exposed to do damage. They didn't want to kill each other, just "learn" them a bit. I don't recall any of the Finns ever engaging in knife play with any of the NDNs. NDNs didn't play by the same rules.

PG

 

[Carcajou Garou]

PG, now you tell me there were rules CG :yo:

 

[RovingArcher]

Carcajou Garou, good to see you posting.

As some may know, I picked up a Sheffield blade by Thomas Wilson. It takes and holds a wicked edge and is still sound after 100+ years.

 

[pierre girard]

Carcajou Garou, good to see you posting.

As some may know, I picked up a Sheffield blade by Thomas Wilson. It takes and holds a wicked edge and is still sound after 100+ years.

Nice knife!

PG

 

[Hoodoo]

I saw one similar to that today, only with an intricately carved wooden handle. It was in great shape. The guy picked it up at some auction for $6.